posted
It was not the city it once was. But little boys were not what they once were either. This one treaded through the snow precisely, thoughtfully putting each little foot in front of the other even though it was dark and the little gray-skinned boy was already late. Ice that never melted anymore covered the brick fronts and the street was lined with empty hydrogen canisters and bio-bins. He had just come from the nearest reclamation tower and received his quota of energy in exchange for his daily collection of hydrogen. He knew he was late but children, even the gray-skinned variety, are never really worried unless something horrible is happening. One could almost hear the humming sound coming from the little throat, a pleasant murmur like the trilling of a nestling or, as the case would have it, a care-free child. A rat-recycler ran nimbly across the snow, jumping as it stretched out its silver and blue length.
[This message has been edited by waterchaser (edited July 30, 2009).]
posted
You lost me on the first sentence with too much confusing description. It seemed lengthy and disjointed. After I read this I don't know much about the character or why I should want to know any more. I am left with partial visual images of a city, but no interest in or curiousity for the character - whoever it is. Maybe spend more effort on the character and less on description.
posted
It does seem that you have a strong vision of exactly what your world looks like (that's a good thing!) but I think the longer, more adjective laden, sentences are best used beyond the first few paragraphs. In my opinion, giving so much description right at the beginning is a bit blinding for a reader.
Maybe start the paragraph with the words you ended it with? "It was not the city it once was."
posted
I agree with traven as to a possible opening point. That's a good idea.
Also, your sentences are very long like you're trying to cram everything you can into each one. Relax, slow down and let the descriptions develop naturally with the flow of the action. You will give the reader a clearer picture and a more interesting one. If you can do that I would like to see more of your world.
posted
You are possibly overburdening the reader with details.
As I said to Writer Dan below, I think a bit of judicious pruning could help. I think shorter sentences might help with the tension.
And -- I'm sorry -- I can’t help diddling to try and show what I mean.
A small gray-skinned figure walked with careful steps through the snow down the other wise clean white street – hmmm, How would you show this more clearly? Use a more interesting and descriptive verb. What means “walked with careful steps” --?
A small gray-skinned figure stepped carefully around the piles of dirty snow where the city plows had made a crude effort to keep the street passable. Empty hydrogen canisters and bio-bins stood at the curb awaiting recycling pickup. Some had been waiting weeks. Overhead the whoosh of an occasional hovercraft, going somewhere far away, broke the silence. The windows at ground level that reflected his shrunken image were dark, not tinted for privacy, merely abandoned.
His trip to the nearest still working reclamation building yesterday….
Probably not what you're looking for, and a bit awkward itself, but can you see what I mean? Concrete, specific details -- just the right ones and not too many of them can paint the setting quite well enough without taxing the reader too much.
posted
It was not the city it once was, but little boys were not what they once were either. This one treaded through the snow precisely, thoughtfully putting each foot in front of the other though it was dark and the gray-skinned boy was late. Ice that never melted anymore glazed the brick fronts and the street was lined with now empty hydrogen canisters and bio-bins. He had just come from the nearest reclamation tower and received his quota of energy in exchange for his daily hydrogen collection. He knew he was late but children, even gray-skinned varieties, are really never worried unless something horrible is happening. One could almost hear the humming sound coming from the little gray-skinned throat, a pleasant murmur like the trilling of a nestling or, as the case would have it, a care-free child.
Note from Kathleen: Is this an additional 13 lines or is it a rewrite of the original 13 lines?
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited July 30, 2009).]
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thanks for all that peoples. I think that was exactly what I was looking for when I signed up.
I know I have a tendency to over-write. I'm just a visual person, and when I read, images flash in my mind that need fleshing out and prompt further reading.
But, as you are my target audience, I aim to please. I do cram and for the reason I already stated. Bearing that in mind, I am going to re-vamp some of my other stories with precisely that short, staccato idea in mind.
I do have a question for long-time members: at what point does one get past the minutia and get to the rest of the story?
I have to admit that I never put a story down because the intro perplexed me. I realize there is a very clear distinction between intriguing and confusing, but I sometimes find the best stories are the ones that baffle me from the begining and leave me searching for answers, and sometimes I don't even find those.
Ever thirsty for these answers and many more, I hope you can help me. I have read lots of intros on this blog that make me want to read more, and I see the writers re-writing the same thirteen lines. I hope they don't get stuck there. Rocky roads often lead to magnificent peaks.
As for tension and syntax structure, I think as a reader, I am more accepting of a crazy, or even confusing introduction if it is print already, because I unconsciously assume that it must have merit to have made it thus far. Love to know more about what you think. After all, if you don't have a philosophy about something, what are you doing?
anyway, thanks again for your prompt and honest responses,
love, peace, and chicken grease, as we say down here,
posted
I rarely find confusion a compelling reason to read on. Clarity usually works better. I think a lot of people agree. Or am I wrong, guys?
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posted
I totally agree in the sense that my details and syntax obviously created a technical kind of confusion, and I am not defending bad writing. If the wording is unclear and could benefit from vigorous compacting, I'll change it. It's hard to see it through other people's eyes.
I meant confusion over content, terms, nouns, et cetera. There is a difference. Take the opening lines of The Parafaith War "Trystin Desoll shifted in the control seat of East Red Three and tried to ignore the acrid smell of plastic decaying under the corrosive assualt of Mara's atmosphere and the faint hint of ammonia that lurked in the corners of the perimeter station. Both odors mingled with the false citrus of too many glasses of Sustain mixed in the small galley behind the duty screens, and with the staleness of air recycled and reprocessed too many times. At 13:02.51, his implant-enhanced senses seared alert-red, and Trystin stiffened, fingers reaching, implant clicking in. As his direct-feed commands flared through the station net, he could sense the shields, he could sense the shields droppoing into place even before the faint vibrations through the station confirmed the electroneural signals."
These first two paragraphs are loading with confusing details. What is East Red Three? Is it explained immediately? Why do I care that he can smell ammonia and citrus? If the air is recycled, I know he's on a space-station, but the details of the setting only tell me he's not on Earth, or at least not my Earth. And if its stale, it's already been processed too many times.
"implant-enchanced senses" is clearly what it is, but in the same sentence we also learn he has some kind of "direct-feed", and somehow we can "sense" the shields dropping through this direct feed via his "electroneural signals". What kind of mental input isn't electroneural signals?
In the first two paragraphs, he overloads the reader with new information to let them know they aren't in Kansas anymore. But it is this strange and confusing world we find ourselves plunged into that we makes us want to know more, to stimulate our curiosity.
Poorly written is poorly written. I am not a good writer. I am not comparing myself to Modesitt either. But I also hate being misunderstood.
Do you like the revision to the intro I posted? And would you send me something you wrote? or at least a few pages?
quote:It was not the city it once was, but little boys were not what they once were either. This one treaded through the snow precisely, thoughtfully putting each foot in front of the other though it was dark and the gray-skinned boy was late. Ice that never melted anymore glazed the brick fronts and the street was lined with now empty hydrogen canisters and bio-bins. He had just come from the nearest reclamation tower and received his quota of energy in exchange for his daily hydrogen collection. He knew he was late but children, even gray-skinned varieties, are really never worried unless something horrible is happening. One could almost hear the humming sound coming from the little gray-skinned throat, a pleasant murmur like the trilling of a nestling or, as the case would have it, a care-free child.
Is this an additional 13 lines or is it a rewrite of the original 13 lines?
posted
Can I suggest editing your first post to include this new version? It might make it clearer for readers who want to offer feedback without reading the whole thread.
Here's my take on what I think is the latest version
[It was not the city it once was,...] I liked this opening.
Though the next sentence generally works, there is some ambiguity. [This one treaded ... though it was dark and the gray-skinned boy was late.] can read as if "the gray-skinned boy" is not the same person as "this one".
For language choice I had niggling doubts about the appropriateness of "putting" and "anymore", but not enough to stop reading; I may find later in the story that this is an essential part of the narrator's voice. Then again, if you think you should word it differently...
[now empty hydrogen canisters and bio-bins] is the first opportunity your reader has to discover the "SFness" of the story, and seems an awkward one at that. I wonder if, for example, it read "now empty canisters and bins" it would be both clearer, and more representative of the pov of the character (who may not bother to distinguish hydrogen canisters from other canisters in this context).
[his quota of energy in exchange for his daily hydrogen collection] - this caused a comprehension problem for me, for as I stopped to try and figure out what you're saying, I... stopped. Which seems something to avoid.
[He knew he was late] - for what?
[gray-skinned throat] - the insistent repetition of gray-skinned seems overdone; certainly repetition is useful and even required occasionally to make a point, however I'd have expected it to be limited to two instances at most; given that "gray-skinned" appears three times in one paragraph it seems as if the narrator is trying to compensate for perhaps being unclear in the first place.
In general, I liked the voice and atmosphere that's being created here, but as I read it, there seems to be enough awkwardness in the writing to call attention to itself and not get me completely engaged.
With respect to a couple of other questions, I'd like to try and be helpful, but please somebody stop me if I get carried away... >.< at what point does one get past the minutia and get to the rest of the story?
I'm not sure I understand - do you mean when do critiques get past the minutia, or when does the writer get past it?
I find that critiquers often won't: they act as a (more helpful) example of what an editor will do when seeing your writing for the first time - either get hung up on the minutiae or connect to the story and want more, more, more!
And as for writers, well that's different for everyone. For me, story comes before editing comes before critiquing, and that helps me improve before the next round, or the next story.
if it is print already, ... it must have merit ... Love to know more about what you think.* At some level I do agree with this, but be wary; I suspect some authors are able to publish drivel simply because they wear a household name and have a corner to themselves at Walmart. For a first-time author the bar can be much, much higher.
What is East Red Three? Is it explained immediately? Two thoughts: Apples & Oranges. Since it's a novel introduction there is more room to establish a hook - short stories (especially those published on the net) seem to need a sharper hook to grab readers. Also, through mentioning the control seat and the atmosphere it seems to me to be an okay opening - I don't need to know exactly what East Red Three is to know what affect it's having on the main character. Then again, if I picked up a novel in a bookstore and it had that opening sentence I'd probably put it down and pick up something else.
But then, that's art - it's subjective and what works for someone else may not work for me; the same might be said for critiques - when submitting a fragment, as the author it's ultimately up to me as to which feedback best serves my story and my eventual audience and which does not.
I'd love to discuss [But, as you are my target audience, I aim to please.] or [I see the writers re-writing the same thirteen lines. I hope they don't get stuck there.] or other topics, but I would feel bad about posting about them here; they're not really questions and risk pulling the thread offtopic - I'd really be happier just critiquing your fragment in this thread. I hope you don't mind. So I wonder if a thread in one of the general writing forums would be a more fruitful place to discuss the matter? Some folks who don't feel like critiquing may still be happy to join the discussion.
posted
Did I like your second effort? I'm sorry but, no. [Clarity is the problem. It's as if you are trying too hard to get everything into these 13 lines. It may be -- to me -- that you are overcontrolling the reader...trying to force the reader to see exactly what you want him to see.] I probably would never have commented on your first 13 had the second version come first.
I find this 2nd version very dense. The text even looks dense to me. Now this is my OPINION. Doesn't make what you wrote, wrong. You just failed to interest me with this one.
posted
you asked -- I do have a question for long-time members: at what point does one get past the minutia and get to the rest of the story?
I'm not a very long time member but I have an opinion on this.
You write the entire first draft then you worry about how good the opening is. I often don't realize what the real opening is until after two or three drafts.
A couple of years ago I set myself a goal of writing entire first drafts of short stories in 7 days. I managed eight stories before I was exhausted. Those I often did post a cleaned up first draft opening before I had finished the first draft. It was a crazy time working under such a short deadline and I only succeeded because I gave myself permission to write the most godawful stories possible so I could zip through them without worrying how good they were. Now I'm spending months cleaning up my messes.
"Fish Story," my last WOTF entry, was one of those stories. It cleaned up rather well. Only got an HM though. I thought it deserved better, but then, don't we ALL think that about our polished stories?
posted
As far as getting past the minutia I had the opposite problem. My creations used to be rather bare bones until I went back and added some flourish. I'm getting better now because I have become more patient. But there are still times that I just feel a need to get a scene down quickly and I leave the details for a later time.
This is just how I work. Maybe trying a scene or two with a bare bones approach would be a good exercise just to see what happens when you try it. Then again, maybe not.
Also, I like the revised opening much better. The world you're setting up I find initially reminiscent of OSC's Ender's Shadow though I'm sure it will diverge in the coming lines.
posted
I thought the rewrite was much more "character-centered" and more engaging. I would read more. If you want a critique send it to brockbooher@cox.net
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posted
I just arrived at this thread. I thought the opening to be just fine except it didn't have quite enough hook. The last line about the rat-chaser didn't do anything for me, unless it was snaking its way to catch little gray children... then you need a sense of peril.
You did get the genre across and a sense of place. Seeing only your last attempt, I didn't think it particularly dense. I'm not expected a snappy story here, though. The pace is somewhat languid and in that I think the lack of a hook may impede certain readers to pass on this story.
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