Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Quoting Songs

   
Author Topic: Quoting Songs
Doc Brown
Member
Member # 1118

 - posted      Profile for Doc Brown   Email Doc Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
In the "Great Quotes" thread, Kathleen mentioned that song lyrics are a special case, that writers may not quote them without written permission.

Does anyone know of a source for more information on this topic? I would like to have specific details of the difference between song lyrics and other works.

I imagine that a writer who quoted an entire song within a novel would need permission. But is there some line that cannot be crossed?

For example, would I need written permission to have a character quip something like this: In the words of Frank Sinatra, "I did it my way . . ." ?


Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Doc, from the stories I've heard, the answer would be a resounding "yes!"

I'll see what I can find about it, though, and post some urls here, at least.


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
By the way, because I think the answer's "yes," I'd be inclined to recommend that you either leave out the reference to Frank Sinatra, and hope people will get the allusion, or say something like "just as Frank Sinatra did it his way, I did it mine."
Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.apra.com.au/Licence/OthPrint.htm

says that if you want to quote even a small part of song lyrics in a novel (or other piece of fiction) you have to contact the copyright owner of the song (which is usually ASCAP, not the song writer).

Nancy Kress says the same thing at

http://www.writeread.com/writeronline/archives/nancy9.htm

Check her answer to the third question.

I have sent email to ASCAP asking about quoting song lyrics and when I hear back, I'll put the information here.

Anyway, if you go to www.google.com and search on quoting + "song lyrics" or quote + "song lyrics" you'll find plenty of links on the subject.


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, here's another url that will take you to a page where a writer talks about quoting song lyrics, "fair use," lawsuits, and other relevant stuff:

http://aoir.org/pipermail/air-l/2001-May/000073.html

I strongly recommend you read what this writer has to say.


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
Doc Brown
Member
Member # 1118

 - posted      Profile for Doc Brown   Email Doc Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you very much, Kathleen.

This song is is a particularly interesting example, since it is such a useful (and often made) quote, and so closely associated with one artist. However, as I understand it "My Way" was actually written by Paul Anka.

Yet ASCAP holds the reigns here.

The concept is fascinating. This could be fuel for a farce . . .


Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
This is from DWilkins@ascap.com

"In order to use the lyrics of copyrighted works, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner, usually represented by the publisher. We can supply publisher contact information on an individual song title. In order to provide this, we would need the title and at least one writer or a recording artist.

"The publisher information you seek is vailable at our website on the ASCAP Clearance Express. To reach this site click on ACE (http://www.ascap.com) on the first page and follow the prompts to the Data Base. This database will provide you the name/address/telephone number when available for ASCAP publishers listed. The ACE database includes works licensed through ASCAP.

"Simply click on the publisher(s) listed below the title, and the contact information will be displayed. All publishers must be contacted.

"The publisher will advise regarding permission and fees.

"If you are unable to determine which work you are interested in, please contact our Clearance Representative at 212-621-6160 for assistance."


I take the "to use the lyrics of copyrighted works" part to mean "to use any recognizable part of the lyrics of copyrighted works."

There just aren't enough words in lyrics to be able to apply "Fair Use."


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
Additional clarification:

"As far as I am aware, using just one line from a songs requires permission from the copyright owner."

Deanna Wilkins
General Licensing


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2