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TheoPhileo
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I just started writing last summer, plowing right into a novel. What I really have in my head is a five to seven volume fantasy, though my outline past the first is pretty sketchy yet.

The problem is, I'm so new at writing, I can see my style changing & growing rapidly right now, so there quite a bit of inconsistancy from say my first chapter to my fifth (to my prologue, which I wrote most recently). I know a lot of this should be fixed as I edit.

I've set that aside for a bit, working on a short story or two (all within the same world as my novel), to develop my skills, and to explore the world a bit, because I'm still flushing out so many details of the cultures of my world, not to mention plot.

I just feel a little flustered about having this large idea thats 1) bigger than my skill-level is probably ready for, and 2) Is still shaping so rapidly I feel like I'm going to wind up tossing out a lot of hard work as I realize major pieces of the plot and even setting need to be restructured (I've already set aside about 60 pages, and am beginning to feel like I might wind up doing the same to 85 more).

Is this a common experience for any one? Any thoughts/suggestions/words of wisdom? Should I wait for my entire vision to develop, or should I just plow ahead blindly and see what happens?


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srhowen
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it is often said on this board and others, and now I forget who said it first--every writer has a million words of crap they have to write before they are ready to be published. Or some such.

I added up those books I wrote before my most recent agented work--yeah more than a million words.

Those books, most on my computer, the first my closet book (the real learning one) were the ones where I found my voice. I stopped parroting those I read, and developed my own style. It's not something you can say OK this is my voice--it evolves slowly and with much practice.

I started out writing in omni POV, then moved to third limited and finally found my voice in first person--when you get notes form publishers (even form those who reject it) that say I loved (insert your name)'s voice--you know you have made it.

Keep going. Don't buy the myth that your first book will be a best seller or that it will even see the light of day beyond your computer screen. The path is twisted one, and you need to take it one step at a time, but you will get there.

One piece of advice, rather than plan a huge epic--start with a single book, then go one from there.

Shawn


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Lord Darkstorm
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I started a novel, which is currently sitting arround waiting, I have decided to follow someone else's advice here and do a few short stories first. I haven't limited myself to just the world of my novel, I want to grow my abilities so that the novel I want to write isn't a useless group of bytes on a hard drive. Develop your skill, develop your world, and when you are ready to actually start your novel, you should know.

LDS


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Balthasar
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My standard bit of advise -- which is usually not taken -- is not to attempt to write an novel until you've written 50 short stories. And if 50 sounds like too much, then write only 25.

Why?

Because there is too much you need to learn about writing -- characterization, description, plot, dialogue, pacing, not to mention sharpening your tools of writing, i.e., words, grammar, paragraph strcture, etc. To try to learn all of this by writing a novel has one big disadvantage, one you've already discovered. You'll change so much that page 150 will be totally inconsistent with page 15. Another disadvantage is you never really get to master story structure -- how Act I leads into Act II, and how that leads into Act III. You never get to learn about pacing. You never get to practice to write a climax and ending of a story. You get to do all of these if you limit yourself to a year or so of writing only short stories.

If you can spend a year writing only short stories, you'll be better prepared in more ways you can imagine when you start your novel.


[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited February 03, 2004).]


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JBShearer
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If you've mustered up the motivation to write a novel, write the dang novel.

Really, we can't expect perfection. It isn't going to happen. With every draft and every edit, you'll learn more. Finish your fist draft without editing. When you're finished, start at the beginning and edit it. If something doesn't feel right anymore, CHANGE IT. If an entire chapter--two, three, four even-- need to be thrown out and restarted, DO IT.

J.B.


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Lord Darkstorm
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I hope Balthasar doesn't have a heart attack, or go into shock...but I happen to agree with Balthasar on this one. I had this strange concept I would start with a novel. After taking on a couple short stories, it made me realize how much I have to learn. If I were to continue my novel right now, I would still probably have to go back and rewrite the whole thing.

So do yourself a favor and spend some time on developing your skills, and learning to write well. Besides, it feels so good to actually finish something. Finishing a chapter is nothing like comming to an ending.

LDS


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Balthasar
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quote:
If you've mustered up the motivation to write a novel, write the dang novel.

This is true. But the original poster seems to be indicating that he/she doesn't have this motivation yet. What seems to have happened is the stark realization that writing a novel is difficult. I equate it to this: I may be really motivated to lift a thousand pounds . . . until I get to the gym.

quote:
Besides, it feels so good to actually finish something. Finishing a chapter is nothing like comming to an ending.

Amen, brother. Amen! And no, I didn't got into shock; I knew you'd come around sooner or later.

[This message has been edited by Balthasar (edited February 03, 2004).]


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Lord Darkstorm
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I can disagree with some things, but I don't think I can disagree with things that make sense...well, after I find it out for myself.

I have my novel planned out in my head, it could even become more than one book. But I want it to be incredibly good, not incredibly boring. My novel may actually have to wait a year or two before I feel that I have learned enough to write it. I have quite a few short story ideas I am thinking through, and will probably start some new ones in the next month or two.

Be patient TheoPhileo, good skills take time. Pick up a book or two on writing, Characters and Viewpoints would be a good one to start with. One of the other threads had some lists of writing books people found helpfull also. There are writing groups here that might be something you would be interested in.

LDS


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TheoPhileo
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Actually, Balthasar, I'm quite motivated. I'm now almost positive I will be writing for the rest of my life. My concern is actually more the opposite. I believe in the story so much, that I don't want this story to be part of my "first million words" if those first million words aren't going to reach their full potential. I want this book to be something worth sharing with others. But thanks for the advice; I think I may stick with short stories for a while (I've got a few brewing in my mind, one I've already started on).

And LDS, I actually already devoured Characters & Viewpoint, and will probably read it again slower for more long-term retention. This is really the book that made me a fan of OSC, even after reading some of his fiction. I'm currently in How Fiction Works by Hall. My response thus far is "eh" but it at least points out some elements of writing that I need to learn to be aware of. I think I might do a writing group, too.

It's the writing every day thing I'm working on now.


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srhowen
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The thing about writing books, and magazines-- is that they only mean something if you understand the road you are on.

In Europe the roads are not labeled north, south, east, west. You don't get A53 west, you get A (autobahn)53 Frankfurt. So you have to know that the place you want is between you and Frankfurt (and being an A road that you want to go there at 130K plus) and that this is the direction you want to be going.

Very confusing at first. As I have head our roads are to those who come here for the first time.

Like those roads, you can pick up a writing book and go eh? What?

But once you start driving the roads the maps start to make sense, and you start to figure out--hey if I get on the A road and I am in Ramstien, then I need to head toward Paris to get home. YEAH!

The books are the same. You pick up a book, read. Do some writing, read it again, get a crit or two of what you wrote, and read again--you will have that moment when the light goes on and it will make sense. Maybe not the first book you pick up, but somewhere there will be a book that makes it all work for you. (or an article, for me it was a single 4 page article)

Why?

Like anything, people have their ways of doing things. Some of us outline (me never), some don't. Some edit a work in progress and can finish that way. Others have to go straight through or they never get done. And so on.

So, in short, you have to find what works for you. Somewhere there is a good chance that another writer used the same method that will become yours, or at least parts of it. When you hit upon your voice and style, that how to book or article will click.

So keep reading those books, and write. If you have the great American novel idea in your head--yeah. Keep it there and do your short stories--until you have found your voice. (and gotten those million words of doo doo out of your system) LOL

Shawn


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Lord Darkstorm
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One other point about writing books. I have read some rather dull ones, which honestly didn't seem to apply to my writing directly. This didn't make me stop reading it. I find that most writing books teach you elements in stories that you must concider. No single story is going to use all elements, and all possible concpts.

For an example, I'm reading "settings" at the moment. I can't say it is one of the better ones I have read, but it does make me think about how a setting can be used in a story, how it relates to a character, and also some ways to use it to add effect to a story. So even if I have found a large chunk of it somewhat dull, I have still managed to add a few more tools to my collection. They will still require some work to make them work well, but so far all of them have.

I don't think any one writing book can tell you all you need to know. I don't agree with every point the author makes. I do try and understand the things the book is trying to teach so I will understand more about what I want to do.

By the way, I found "Descriptions" to be another very good book to read.

LDS


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Kolona
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quote:
What I really have in my head is a five to seven volume fantasy, though my outline past the first is pretty sketchy yet.

Sounds like what you really have in your head in one novel. Go for it.

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Jerome Vall
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Writing books?

There are three I use all the time:
--Stephen King's ON WRITING
--John Gardner's ON BECOMING A NOVELIST
--John Gardner's THE ART OF FICTION: NOTES ON CRAFT FOR YOUNG WRITERS (i.e., beginning writers, which Gardner assumes are college kids).

Other than thost, the only thing I've found helpful is this: read a lot and write a lot. By reading, you learn how to write; and by writing, you learn how to read as a writer (which is very, very important to learn).

If you read a lot and write a lot, you'll start to catch on. Suddenly you'll find that you need to sharpen a skill (such as viewpoint), so you study viewpoint and your problems are solved. Then you'll see that you're fictional dream isn't very real becasue of a lack of vividness, so study description and you're on your way. Don't go the route I did and read a lot of books on writing if you don't have a lot of writing under your belt. I agree with Shawn -- if you do it this way, you'll get overwhelmed. Just write and have fun, and sooner or later some lights will turn on, you'll get this high, and you'll be more motivated than ever. Remember, the only valuable lessons you learn are those you learn by writing. No one can teach you how to write -- you just sort of catch on.

[This message has been edited by Jerome Vall (edited February 04, 2004).]


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JBShearer
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Just a side-thought. You know, I have learned in my experience, and many other writers will tell you, that an idea for a story/book/thingy rarely turns out the way you'd originally imagine. Sure, you can have brainstorm-level ideas for books subsequent to the one that you are thinking of writing, and that's great, but it probably won't turn out how you think it will.

Sure, maybe you have an ending in mind or whatever, but as you began writing these characters, they take on lives of their own. They will each develop like people, developing interests and ideas, ideologies and quirks, and they'll surpise you from time to time. Some of the best ideas in books don't really come from the author, they come from the characters. It sounds crazy, but you'll see . . .

I swear, learning to write is nearly as fun as writing itself.


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