Let me explain: I have these inspirations now and then, from things I see, hear, or just ideas that pop up out of nowhere (I love those, because they're truly inspired) and I write a good synopsis, decent couple of first chapters...then I have writers block to everything pertaining to that or any other story. Most recently I had that problem with a story I began writing. Five chapters into the story, I stop, print, and bug out when I realize how inexperienced I sound, as though I'm from the third grade. "My name is Billy. I have a dog. He is brown. He likes to run."

Okay, not quite like that, but close.

I haven't been able to write anything good, in my opinion, for a few months, and this is putting me off on writing, which terrifies me, because I've been writing since I was nine, and still love doing it. There's nothing better (I think; others may disagree) than putting an idea on paper, or on screen, and watching it flourish into something bigger. When I try to outline, though, I blank out. I don't know what to write, where to go, what my characters say. Clueless. Utterly clueless. I write chapters, however, and the words pour out like rain in Porltand. (Trust me, I know). Bad words, granted, but still words. Go back to outlining, I got nuthin'.

Any ideas? Because I'm all idea'd out. I KNOW I'm good, dag nabbit, but how can i prove it when I can't write something and half an hour later still like what I've written?

King of the Writer's Block,
Chris

PS. Does anyone know what PS stands for?

PSS. Does the fact that I usually begin writing when the world has gone to sleep have anything to do with this block? I like to write when it's the most quiet, and in a house of ten people, that's not likely to happen until about midnight. I stay up until three or four, and I like nothing I write. I find myself playing minesweeper when I've been stuck for more than ten minutes. And I've gotten pretty durn good.

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I write chapters, however, and the words pour out like rain in Porltand.

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for me that is the quickest way to find the wall---the wall of writers block, more solid than the Berlin wall. And like the Berlin wall it to can come down.

There is no rule that says "you must write an outline". If the words flow when you don't then don't. Many time the reason an outline or synop before the fact of first draft completion brings the writers block is because you know the story already. So why go on? You know the middle, and the end---so your mind says, "Hey, what are doing looking at this stuff yet? Been here done this."

As to staying up all night, heck most writers I know are night owls. It is the game playing that could be a problem. When I get stalled I will do that with Mahjong or solitaire. I have to tell myself to get out of the left brain and get into the right brain and stay there. Limit the game until you have written x number of words, good or bad.

Shawn

Hope that helps. Good luck!

Hmmm. The only thing I might venture for this is to just to read more quality stuff. I have always thought that what I read greatly shaped my own style. You are what you eat, so to speak.

I don't know what your experience is, so maybe this doesn't apply, but I think it only helps to read as much top-notch material as you can. All the Hugo+Nebula winners, for example, or the books listed in JOHN's thread.

Shasta

P.S. Post script.

P.P.S. Post post script, because post script script sounds funny.

Do the same for good books, cept, now highlight the phrases and scenes that wow you. It will help you see how to fix your prose as well.

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Try this one, pick up a crappy book and a highlighter.

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I think Shawn is on the right track here. You gave a partial example of what you thought was wrong. But I get the impression you don't actually know what is wrong, or you would fix it, right? You might want to try improving your critiquing skills. That would help you identify why you don't like what you've written so that you could fix it.

Be assured that if you keep at it, your writing will improve and you won't hate it any more--until you reach the next stage like that as you continue to improve.

Be patient with yourself. Give yourself some slack. Try things until you find out what works, and let yourself be "bad" until you can catch up with yourself.

Okay?

When a read a book I have no clue what's coming next, so when I read it I sound like one of those guys reading a book on tape. (By sound like I mean in my head.) When I read something I wrote (especially while editing)I've read it so many times I read it in a very sing songy voice. That sounds an awful lot like "See Spot run." Try reading your own stuff in the voice you read other peoples narrative. It might help or you just suck ( Hey, I'm kidding; I'm sure there's a reasonable explaination. ) .

I must agree DON'T write an outline or synopsis. Have a good idea where you're going, but don't map everything out before hand. I'm a fan of a notes file. I have my story broken up on a disk in three files (it's that long) and I have a separated notes file to jot things down. It takes the fun out of it if you know every twist and turn and makes you feel as if you have to stick to that.

I have agree with you about writing during the wee hours of the morning. The muse only talks with me after 1 AM. I don't know why. I work in the afternoon and I've tried to get up at about 9:00 or 10:00 am to write and I sit in front of the monitor until I'm crossed eyed and have a headache. It just doesn't work for me. I hate reading articles by authors who tell you you should set aside a certain time everyday to write. Horse shit! If I make myself write from 12pm to 4pm everyday my writing is going to become flat and I'll just be going through the motions as if I was preforming some meaningless religous ritual.

My advice is to take all those crappy (your word not mine) bits and pieces and smoosh them together in one big uberstory. Butonly after you burned all your outlines.

JOHN!

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Ok, the idea of writing a novel without an outline seems terrifying to me. How do you know it will even turn out to be a novel if you don't know how it's going to flow? Do you even know the ending before you sit down?

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Maybe, but not always. Characters and scenes and subplots can drive the story in an unexpected direction.
Often, I think my rough draft resembles an outline. After several rewrites it begins to resemble a story.

Chuck

[This message has been edited by huntr (edited August 12, 2002).]

Do I know the ending? Sometimes I have an idea where it will end, but most times it doesn't go there at all like I wanted it to or expected it would.

You do what works.

And Kathleen is right.

Stage one--I am great, I am the god of writing, my novel will be a million dollar best seller.

Stage two--Ok, so maybe I don't know evvvvrryyy thingggg.<long drawn out rolling of eyes> Maybe I will join a crit group or get some how to books.

Stage three--Everyone in my crit group is an idot! How many times do I need to say--and explain. Can't they read?!!!

Stage four--I suck, my writing sucks, I'll never get published. maybe I should quit.

Stage five--hey, I think I can do this. Ya know those people in my crit group were right and if I change this and tinker with this, hey this is great----

Stage six--I can handle this. I'll send out queries now.

And then it can start again if you don't watch out and take those first rejections to much to heart.

So write on, I think we've all been there, at one stage or another.

I banged out a whopper of a novel (190k, which I will be splitting up into two books) inside of two months, then fell over for a few days before daring to face the editing phase. This is the path I like to follow:

1. Write it down. Edit lightly in progress, but focus on story progression until a conclusion is reached. Nope, don't always know what that is in advance...I like to let the story take me there naturally.

2. Go back and proofread. Fix pathetic typos and even worse grammar mistakes. Make it "purty."

3. Re-read end to end and find those plot holes! This is also the stage where I like to use another reader to help me find what I am too close to identify. It is during this phase that I begin outlining, strangely enough, because then I catch more holes and fill them in. Then, I rewrite to correct the boo-boos. Note: this is often a wash, rinse, repeat cycle for me...I've now gone through my book five times and have another pass planned.

4. Query letter time! In parallel, I reread key portions of the book and make any last corrections. This is when I put together the synopsis, since the fundamental storyline is unlikely to change at this point.

Everyone approaches writing differently. I think the key is, if it stops being a passion, an act that you enjoy, then you've got to change yours. If outlines make you cry, hold off and just focus on the tale. If not having an outline leaves your mind scattered and story unfocused, then put it together first. That's all the advice I've got, for what it's worth.

I tried editing it, but the link was still bad, so I'm reposting it here.

I'm going to start printing some of the tips people post here on Hatrack in the newsletter for the Science Fiction and Fantasy Workshop which I also do--if you want to know more, please download the latest issue (PDF format) from

www.burgoyne.com/pages/workshop

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Try this one, pick up a crappy book and a highlighter.

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Stage three--Everyone in my crit group is an idot! How many times do I need to say--and explain. Can't they read?!!!

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I'd totally do this if I didn't have a strange reverence for books. Seriously, I'm very anal about them. I never bend a spine, fold a page. I don't know why.

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The way around that is to pick a part of the book that you find particularly wonderful (or in the case of a bad book, particularly awful), and type that section into your computer, print it out and do the highlighting on the printout.

You will find that by typing stuff into your computer, you will see things in the text that you don't notice when you're just reading it. It's a good way to do an in-depth study of any text.

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On that topic, Kathleen, don't suppose I could get myself into a crit group?

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Sure. You know the drill, right? Go to

http://www.hatrack.com/writers/writers/join-form.shtml

(I don't know how to quote, , so I'll just indicate a quote with *'s)

*If writing outlines seizes you up, my advice would be 'don't do it'. Write chapters. Write so many chapters that you reach the end of the story. If you drivel in the middle, it doesn't matter.*

The only problem here is that when I pick up writing when I start, I have to read the latest chapter, and I can't do that without editing. Noticing mistakes in that one, I go back to fix others, and after a little while, my own writing is sounding so juvenile to me that I scrap the story and begin writing a different version. Not practical, yeah, I know, but the newer version is usually better. When I reread the first version, though, I realize it has it's merits, juvenile though it sounds.

What can I say? I'm...qwerky. (Is that how you spell that?)

*There is no rule that says "you must write an outline". If the words flow when you don't then don't. Many time the reason an outline or synop before the fact of first draft completion brings the writers block is because you know the story already. So why go on? You know the middle, and the end---so your mind says, "Hey, what are doing looking at this stuff yet? Been here done this."*

That's good to know. I like being able to write a story and see where it takes me, even if it isn't going in the direction I was originally planning.

*Also, don't read too much crappy writing, some bad habits might rub off subconsciously. *

Define crappy writing. I like to read in almost every genre, and there are good and bad writers in each. Give me an example or two, if you can.

*pick up a crappy book and a highlighter...Do the same for good books*

I like that idea, and see how it would help. any suggestions on books I can highlight?

*Chris, maybe putting bits aside for a day or two would help. You might not like it any better, but the distance might let you see ways to fix it, which will make you feel better about the whole thing.*

I've tried that, but I have a pretty good memory, and even after so much as a week's time has passed by, the only things that jump out are the bad ones. Not fun.

*My advice is to take all those crappy (your word not mine) bits and pieces and smoosh them together in one big uberstory. Butonly after you burned all your outlines.*

This could me a preconceived notion, but don't outlines let you know where the story is BASICALLY going, not to the letter? And without an outline, how would you know where to put those bits and pieces?

As for the various stage, srhowen, i think I'm looping (minus the crit groups) between stages one through four. I don't mean to, I just do. The looping factor for me, what makes be go from four back to one, is that one GREAT idea (destined to become a chore ) that forces me to believe that it was predetermined by God Almighty that I become a writer......then I actually write, and we move back to stage four. Yay for me.

All in all, I love to write, but have yet to finish a novel. The closest I've come is an 11.5K-word short story, so as you can imagine, I'm looking forward to the big day. What I'm NOT looking forward to, however, is the agonizing process (From what I hear) of sending in queries to publishers and waiting and being rejected and then starting the whole fun cycle once again.

To get there, though, I figure I'll have to finish the story.

Yeah, I have my work cut out for me.

Thanks a bunch
Chris

PS (Yeah, I think it IS post script) It's good to know I'm not the only Night Writer (heh heh. Get it?) I usually do my best thinking when it's quiet and I'm uninterrupted. Music tends to block the muse, however, and that kinda sucks. I loves me music.

a)A general description covering the main points of a subject: an outline of American literature.
b)A statement summarizing the important points of a text.
c)A summary of a written work or speech, usually analyzed in headings and subheadings.
d)A preliminary draft or plan, as of a project or proposal.

I love dictionary.com

An outline was described to me in a way that really helped. So I am going to pass it on incase it helps someone else.

Take a piece of string, about a foot long. Lay it out on the table horizontally in front of you. This is your outline. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. It is linear. Now leave it there for a day or two, Making sure to let everyone now only that the string MUST stay ON the table. Come back to it after the time set aside and see what the string looks like. Mine was in loops and knots and had moved from the front of the table to near the wall at the side.
It took me a day to figure out how this applied to my story that I was writing and the outline that I had for it.
Things are meant to change. If the world was static, it would be very boring.
Hope this shared info is enjoyed, even if only for a laugh at my perplexity.

"The beautiful part of writing is that
you don't have to get it right the first time, unlike, say,
a brain surgeon."
--Robert Cromier

Good books, many many out there. Choose one you liked and thought worked well. It more than likely matches your style.

Shawn

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Any of the early Tek World books by Shatner before he figured out he needed ghost writers. Ugh

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Hey, I liked the early ones. Ok, to be honest I was in junior high when I read them and was a pasty-faced virgin Star Trek geek, so Shatner could do no wrong, but it was the ghost writtn ones I found horrid. I liked the first three, but again this was years ago. I actuallly assumed they were all ghost written.

But those first tek books were full of things like he had had enough (and many others of the same ilk), repeated word use, three uses of ran in the same paragraph, and so on. His Star Trek books were much the same till the ghost writers came.

Just becasue a person can act doesn't mean they can write. Too bad the public buys them anyway-----

[ quote ] then your pasted quote [ / quote ]

without the extra spaces, only space between the words of the pasted quote.