posted
I recently put a story through workshop, got some great critiquing, rewrote, and then had a couple of other people read it. The writers in my critique group loved it. What was interesting to me was the response of the two other people. One of them is another unpublished writer, like me, and the other is simply a friend.
The writer loved it and really got it.
No, it isn't about writing.
My reader friend liked it, enjoyed reading it, but "will have to think about it to understand what is going on".
In another story of mine she read and alledgedly enjoyed, she "wondered what the message was" and what "the point of the story was" Yet another person (writerly) of the same story said I was "belaboring my high points too much".
In the case of the stories above, most of the writers (grin at Rahl) got that they were actually set in the same universe, that one explained an important event in the other. But the reader friend did not.
Question: Do writers make good Wise Readers?
The Problem: Wise Reading is hard work, and you may have to train the person. If you are unpublished, it is not really a privilege for them to do it. Who can you get to do this for you?
[This message has been edited by Amka (edited April 09, 2003).]
posted
Both writers and readers can get it or not get it. I have found most times that they do not get it when:
A. It is a genre they normally don't read. B. They speed read the work. C. They are being honest (non-writers) and the writer friends know how hard getting a crit is so they "soften" the blow. Also, writers will go back and reread sections they did not get. Where as a "reader" won't.
Where do you find good wise readers? Not among friends. Join a pro writer's group--many have lower level memberships.
Join a crit group of people you have never met.
And remember to take each crit with a block of salt--you can't please everyone and there will always be that person that just doesn't get it.
posted
Well, I know what you're talking about. I feel like I can NEVER get a wise reading, unless it is from people that I respect but don't know on a public forum like this one or others I visit regularly.
And Amka, while I'm not one of those wise readers you were talking about, as someone who read both stories I feel ashamed to only NOW see the connection between them. That makes it a bit more interesting, however individually -- it doesn't really change anything about the stories.
Good luck on finding good wise readers. If you are going to train someone, consider training the hubby. I don't know much about him, but if you could train him well (and if he's trainable or interested at all) then that would be an invaluable resource. Afterall, Scott says that his wife is his first and best wise reader!
posted
srhowen: My critique group comprises one professional and other good writers. I didn't know them until I began with them in August. They don't soften the blow. I said it was a great critique because they pointed out some major flaws like the fact that the original version of this story fell apart about 2/3 of the way through. They couldn't even say why it fell apart, everyone was just confused, but they gave me enough information that I knew what wrong turn I'd taken.
The reason why I wonder if writers make good wise readers is because they will, as you said, read it over and analyze it. They know the common mistakes in clarity and can see through them, so they can 'get it' when others might not, and they might not even be able to point out where the typical reader might stumble.
My husband, dear man that he is, has two things that make it especially difficult for him to be my wise reader.
One is that he is not proficient enough in English. Reading fiction in English is difficult for him. There are quite a few words he ends up not even understanding, that are not very obscure to the common written word, but almost never heard in everyday conversation.
The second is that he loves idea stories and action adventure stories, but I tend to write character stories. He reads science fiction a lot (We have a library of russian books that rivals our english books.), but it is typically of a different type than what I enjoy.
He supports me very much. He constantly asks if I have something sent out, and if I don't, he wants to know why. If the house isn't clean because I've been writing, that's OK with him. He just can't give me that particular help.
[This message has been edited by Amka (edited April 09, 2003).]
posted
He sounds like a good man. Having not really submitted written work for anyone to read since I left school I have no idea what makes a good 'wise-reader'. But my guess (from what I've seen and read here), is that you need look no further than places like this (I'm sure this isn;t the only one, it's just the first one I found).
Posts: 32 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Writers make great "wise readers" provided they are willing to give you concrete suggestions for how you could improve your work and you are willing to treat those suggestions as advice rather than commands
If you ever send me something, and I send it back with specifics on how to rewrite it, feel free to ask me to clarify why I think those changes would be good, but do not try to persuade me they wouldn't be good. It usually takes me a couple of exchanges to figure out what is happening and say, "hey, this is your story, if you don't want to take my advice then just don't take it."
If a critic (who is also a writer) just says the story is no good and doesn't say anything you could have done differently...well, that's not being very helpful (non-writer critics can just say what they didn't like without having specific ideas of how to fix it,because they might really not know how). If I'm going to do that, I just don't send the critique at all.
posted
I have a few groups of friends I send my stuff to for different reasons.
I have my two writer friends who can tell me what doesn't work, usually sentence by sentence. Then I have my reader friends who can tell me if the piece is effective overall. Finally, I have my ex-girlfriend who sort of... comments on the last touchups she thinks I'd need.
Beyond that, I'm mostly dead in the water.
Personally, I find that the writer friends make the biggest suggestions, but I always tear my work up alot more than they could with a week to work with. You are your own worst critic. Right now, I've got high hopes about the people around here who don't know me and will be able to give me an honest opinion about my stuff.
I guess that my point is that after I have had my piece critiqued by writers who "got it" who understood the story I was trying to write, and rewrote it according to that critique and the story that was in my mind, a reader of the same genre I was writing in did not "get it".
This happened with two stories. The lack of clarity or whatever other problem I'm having (with that reader) was not solved, or I fear, even approached.
I will admit this, I need to get more readers (non-writer types) to look at it to see if it is a common problem or a unique problem. But if any of you would like to take a look at the stories in question, I wouldn't mind.
posted
AMKA, I would be pleased to have a look at your story or stories -my e-mail can be found in my profile.
Since I am getting reacquainted with the craft of writing after being away from it for a very long time, I think that I will be able to provide you with a reader's view point on your stories.
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