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Go with what you know. D'oh! I'd end up writing nothing.
I've a minor character who's an undercover policeman. He plays a small role in the story for a chapter or two, helping out the main character who is stranded in the middle of Philly.
How would he refer to himself? A plainclothesman? A police detective?
I've heard police are sensative about how they're refered to. For instance, they don't like being calls cops.
posted
I don't really know, but I'd think he would always consider himself to be a police officer first and foremost. He might also associate his rank/title... for instance, Detective Lieutenant, or Detective Sergeant... or some other variant.
When I was in the military, I considered myself a Marine first, a Corporal second, and then lastly my actual job or MOS. That was me though, I don't know how others saw themselves.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited May 12, 2005).]
posted
I'm not sure. You might have to do some reporter style research and interview an officer. I don't know how it is where you are, but most of the communities I'm familliar with have liason officers. At the very least you could call your local police station, using the non-emergency line , and explain that you are a writer doing research for a novel. One of the characters is an undercover police officer and you would like to speak with someone about that type of job so that you can portray the character realistically.
My experience working with police officers, is that they appreciate being asked about what they do and having the opportunity to make sure the information you have is correct.
Setting up an interview may seem like a daunting and nerve-racking task, but it can be well worth it.
Ask-a-cop is your best bet. They were very helpful to me. Start by reading the FAQ, and look for the thread that deals with shows/cliche's they hate, before you ask anything. It's very informative.
[This message has been edited by MaryRobinette (edited May 12, 2005).]
posted
Of course, I don't know the particulars of the situation in your book. But unless the situation is extreme, I think it unlikely that an undercover policeman would identify himself as such. Just something to consider.
Posts: 1517 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
In general, detectives do not refer to themselves as 'policemen', they prefer 'detective.' Unless, of course, they are talking to a policeman. I know that my dad, who recently got promoted to detective, still calls himself a cop when he gets pulled over.
In an undercover situation, he will just say he's an undercover detective. I do agree with Robyn_Hood that you should interview an officer if you can. Often, police have certain lingo that they only use with eachother that can add realism to a story. Things that you wouldn't expect. For example, saying "plenty more where that came from" is a common phrase when a cop lets another off without a ticket. Here's an unusual one: In my dad's department, when an officer "goes on a J-4", he's letting the dispatcher know that he can't be contacted for the next few minutes--usually because he's taking a dump! How weird is that?!
EDIT: Here's what I know about how cops like to be referred to. To eachother, they'll call themselves anything from policeman to cop to po-po. When other people are referring to them, they expect a little more respect. And saying "sir" and speaking proper English (as opposed to, say, "ghetto speak") to them goes a long way.
[This message has been edited by apeiron (edited May 12, 2005).]
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Nice to here there's no favoritism and the rules applies equally to everyone.
It's mainly the interaction of the dectective with the character. The character is stranded in Philly, and the off-duty detective gives him a ride to Richmond. Way outside his jurisdiction, but the man wants to help out.
In Richmond, people who purport to be Federal agents show up, the detective is duped. He wouldn't be normally but a few chemicals help place him in a suggestive state. The detective encourages the character to go along with the "agents"...
quote:When other people are referring to them, they expect a little more respect. And saying "sir" and speaking proper English (as opposed to, say, "ghetto speak") to them goes a long way.
That's exactly the wrong attitude for a police officer to have. No wonder so many of the ones I've personally met were jerks. Respect is earned, never assumed -- though we respect the title of law enforcement officer, the person has to live up to that title. I'll call them officer, and if they aren't ass when I'm dealing with them -- usually the seasoned vets aren't asses, it's the young kids that demand anything -- then I'll move onto the sirs, and what have you.
Because, you have to remember: The police work for you. It's not the other way around, though that's obviously debatable. They should be calling you "sir" or "ma'am". This does not mean someone should antagonize a police officer, because that's pointless.
Now, I've had good experiences with the police, and I've had bad experiences. I've never been arrested, but I've been falsely ticketed for something I didn't do. A young officer suspected that if he pulled me over, he might find drugs in my car -- a car which just happened to have a sticker of a peace sign that was about 10 years old, and one I didn't put on the first place... I didn't have any drugs, but that didn't stop him from pulling me over and inventing some lame BS that I was speeding. I wasn't speeding. By the way, how often does it take 1 hour to write a speeding ticket? You tell me.
Oh, I cooperated, and still he insisted that I was hiding something. And even after nothing was found, he still questioned me about my past and if I had ever done anything illegal, any drugs, that kind of thing (for a speeding ticket? C'mon!). When I told him I was prior military, he looked at me apologetically and said, "I wouldn't have guessed by the sticker on your car."
I was livid by this point, and said, "That's what you get when you make dumbass assumptions based on a sticker on a car that was there when I bought it. And that's the only reason you pulled me over."
He then -- finally -- wrote my ticket and let me go.
Respect has to be earned on an individual basis. Respect for the job only goes so far. They are police officers, not gods, and not any better than anyone else. And it is about time that Americans realized this. America has given it's police far too much power and with less accountability than ever.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited May 12, 2005).]
posted
I've found the “lingo’ is very regionalized. So if you want to be accurate, go online, look up the phone number of a department in the area you’re writing about, call, and ask. Larger police departments won’t think anything of a writer calling to get such info. Happens all the time and most cops are happy to inform. Also, for the most part, police don't blink at being called cops. Yeah, you'll get the kind once in a while that have a bug about it, but most cops are pretty mellow people who understand "cop" is just part of the language.
You’re best bet would be to just straight out describe the exact scene to them and see what they think. The key with this kind of research is, don't be evasive. As often as I’ve had to do this type of research, I’ve decided that most cops are closet mystery writers anyway. They might even have a better way to do the scene for you.
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Personally, I think "sir" and "ma'am" are appropriate addresses for any person you don't know. I tend to start by assuming that someone is respectable, and then they have to earn my disrespect, but that's a diferent topic of conversation and not writing related.
ChrisOwens, sorry, I forgot that you have to register to do a search. They don't spam, so it's all right. I also don't remember the name of the thread about things that drive them crazy. It came right up last time I was there, which was, admittedly, November. I did a quick search on "undercover" and there were a couple of different threads.
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Let's not confuse courtesy with respect. Respect is always earned. Courtesy is expected -- or rather appropriate -- between people who do not know each other.
I can make assumptions about a unknown person that I meet, but inevitably, it will be their actions and deeds which earn my respect, or disrespect.
posted
HSO is right, even though his previous post was...a little eccentric in tone. I usually make the necessary effort to be somewhat civil towards police officers. They usually know I don't really respect them any more than I would respect any other person in the same situation, and they are usually smart enough to not make a point of getting anything more than courtesy. That's all that any of us has any right to expect, after all.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Ah. Semantic diference. I'm using what turns out to be the third definition of respect. "Willingness to show consideration or appreciation."
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Mary, as far as I can tell, the FAQ for ask-a-cop only tells you how to use the message board. Is there another faq there somewhere?
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Y'know, wbriggs. I should have gone to the site again before I posted the link. It's been slightly rearranged since I used it. It looks the same, but topics are in different places.
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A sig or a link to that flash? Cause I just posted the link.
I don't think that signatures are working, not that I'm so fond of them anyway. I know that we've discussed having an easily accessable orientation page for new members, but this version of UBB is really quite old and apparently not very configurable. And the thought of using the same version as the other side of Hatrack gives me the willies, frankly. That's just feeling of guilt by association, though, it isn't a rational motive or anything.
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I was just enjoying the idea of an instructional video on posting for newbies. Signatures don't excite me at all.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
What, do our own? Who's going to take responsibility for it? Not me! I'll link to it, but I'm not taking the heat for something like that.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
"That's exactly the wrong attitude for a police officer to have. No wonder so many of the ones I've personally met were jerks."
Oh boy. Look, I'm of the opinion that anyone who actually recognizes what police officers do for a living would have respect for them. Unfortunately, most people like those on this forum have only encountered police in a situation where they've been pulled over. Not only is this unfortunate because it stinks to be pulled over, but because you don't realize the extreme low points of humanity that police must muck with, often several times per shift.
I know I didn't until I went for my first ride-along. Domestic disturbances, such as a girlfriend throwing her boyfriend out of her apartment (for the third time in two weeks). Two drunk 20-somethings milling about a parking lot making an old lady at her window nervous. Some punk kid beating up his dad or vice versa--or worse, the rest of the family waits until the ordeal is over before calling for help. A neighbor/landlord discovering a body that's been lying there stinking at least a few days. A woman finding that same darned raccoon's gotten into her yard again. Some of it's inane, some of it disturbing, all of it depressing.
Anyone that puts up with that each day, then goes off to stand in the same spot at some department store for a few more hours on the side so he can send his daughter to college, has my respect.
Then again, I may be too close to this issue to form an objective opinion.
posted
Respect for the job being done, and respect for the person are two different things. I could never be a cop because I couldn't deal with watching people self-destruct on a daily basis. I have no illusions that's hard to deal with for any police officer.
Nevertheless, I have equal respect for anyone who is supporting their family in any honest job out there. Teachers, janitors, single moms, you name it. Being a cop doesn't mean you're better than anyone else. And when they take that attitude, they are clearly jerks.
posted
I've dealt with cops off the job (so to speak). They're just like anyone else.
Look I fully understand that when a cop encounters me in the line of duty, he's having a hard time. I try to ameliorate the underlying problem by being cheerful and looking pretty harmless, but people who do it for a living probably notice certain things about me. But hey, I try to avoid taking the cops seriously, and usually they go ahead and accept that I'm trying to be non-threatening.
Respect doesn't enter into that equation. I don't really want cops to consciously acknowledge my potential abilities in any given situation, and my estimate of their potential abilities is immaterial since I'm being a good, law-abiding citizen.
I think that there is a strong case for having respect for people that have seen the elephant. But I am the elephant. A friendly elephant, to be sure
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Anytime I've debated something with Mary, she has been right. So, now when she disagrees with me, I must consider the possibility that I'm wrong in my opinion, else look like a joker...
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I'll have to say that the askacop website made me lose a little respect. For the most part, the posters seem like jerks. Is this representive?
Of course, this is tempered with what another has said about the traumatic experiences they face daily. That's bound to leave a mark. But the results frighten me.
posted
I have worked as an advocate for an organization that provides support for victims of domestic violence. It was not a rare thing to have spouses of sheriffs or police officers as clients. In fact, one of the more scary cases I ran into was a woman who's husband was a county sheriff. Law enforcement officers are trained to handle conflict with dominance and aggressiveness. Some of them don't know how to turn that off when they go home at night. I've known some very gentle and compassionate police officers, and there are many. The few bad apples are really bad and really nasty and they have guns. Thank god they are the exception and not the rule.
Posts: 2026 | Registered: Mar 2005
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, and explain that you are a writer doing research for a novel. One of the characters is an undercover police officer and you would like to speak with someone about that type of job so that you can portray the character realistically.
