Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » The Active vs Reactive Protagonist

   
Author Topic: The Active vs Reactive Protagonist
ChrisOwens
Member
Member # 1955

 - posted      Profile for ChrisOwens   Email ChrisOwens         Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps this relates to the other thread of the reader knowing more than the main character:

It was pointed out in a short story that the character starts out as active, in the driver’s seat as it were, propelling toward his quest, and then halfway through becomes reactive, that is, his actions are molded by events.

I thought he well verbalized doubts I had about my WIP novel. Certainly while the protagonist acts and has an agenda of his own (revolving around restoring normalcy and security to his life and family) he finds himself caught up in extraordinary events beyond his control. It becomes more of a story of a life interrupted. He acts, but it may all be reactive for the first quarter or more before he comes to understand what is going on. His reactive actions eventually have repercussions that change the plot in a big way. He thinks he can control his fate, but in the end, he learns sometimes you can’t.

So what is the dividing line of active and reactive? Is there room for a successful reactive story? If so, what factors should one consider?


Posts: 1275 | Registered: Mar 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
wbriggs
Member
Member # 2267

 - posted      Profile for wbriggs   Email wbriggs         Edit/Delete Post 
I think I'd have to know the story.

The POV character Hastings always just reacted to Poirot's investigation. But I suppose Poirot was the protagonist . . . and wasn't he just reacting to the murder, and the evidence?

OTOH I think somebody has to make a change (esp in himself) for it to be satisfying. It could be a small change. In The Lathe of Heaven, Ursula LeGuin, the protagonist was aware of what an anti-hero he was, and that he only did one thing that wasn't reaction: he pushed the off switch on a machine.

And it was a great novel.


Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Keeley
Member
Member # 2088

 - posted      Profile for Keeley   Email Keeley         Edit/Delete Post 
I think -- and this is based on my own musings regarding a character who only reacted -- I think it has to do with the motivations of your character. If the character just kind of bounces along with no real reason to move forward, then I think there's a problem. Even if your character is reacting to events, your character should have a reason for their reaction (revenge for murder of wife, love for pig, paranoia regarding ducks, etc.)
Posts: 836 | Registered: Jul 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
johnbrown
Member
Member # 1467

 - posted      Profile for johnbrown   Email johnbrown         Edit/Delete Post 
Look at almost any movie and you can see the structure more clearly. Let's just take these random titles:

PIRATES OF CARRIBEAN
SOUND OF MUSIC
SPIDERMAN 2
SABRINA
STAR WARS

The hero's life is interrupted. The character is faced with a problem. Sometimes its with some kind of danger or jeopardy. Sometimes, in mysteries, it's danger once removed.

But in almost all stories it seems something has gone wrong. The hero then REACTS to this.

The rest of the plot is the hero making plans, facing obstacles (people, antagonists, nature, chance, etc.), reacting to obstacles with new plans.

At no point should the hero stop trying. The story is the chronicle of the hero resolving the danger/problem. If they just give up, well, then what kind of a story is that?

There are black moments. Like in Shrek 2 when Shrek figures she "loves" prince charming. But that only lasts for a while--until he figures out how to react to that devestating blow. Then he's off again.

I see heroes as being active and reactive. They certainly can't be passive. I see them REACTING first to some event (a villain's plan being executed as in Die Hard, or some natural disaster or some awful situation or a meeting the romance interest in a romance), then they plan, act, face an obstacle and react with new plans and new actions.

[This message has been edited by johnbrown (edited May 09, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by johnbrown (edited May 09, 2005).]


Posts: 327 | Registered: Jul 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Why is Pirates of the Carribean in that "random" list?

Okay, just kidding around

A protagonist should probably remain "active" in the sense of consciously striving to accomplish something rather than being "reactive" in the sense of just doing the first thing a situation suggests without reflecting on it a bit. That may be defining things a bit differently, but I think it's very reasonable.

After all, a character that never paid any attention to basic reality, never "reacting" to what was but only "acting" without reference to external circumstances, could be pretty limiting and pretty limited. Cervantes did it okay, and stories that explore the nature and limits of "insanity" have an accepted place in literature, but not all stories are about people who ignore reality.

I think that "active/reactive" is something we decide by watching the protagonist's decision making process. If it takes place in the conscious mind, and the hero makes a real effort to do the right thing, then we call that character "active". If the character is just acting out the script that nature, nurture, and current events have written, then we call that one "passive". The issue isn't how much actual control the character exercises over external events, many "active" characters end up accomplishing nothing (one thinks of Bruce Willis in Twelve Monkeys, one could say many things about his character, but it is really a stretch to say he wasn't active). The issue is whether the character acts with personal responsibility.

So the fact that the events have gotten beyond your character's ability to control things shouldn't make that character less "active" at all. In fact, being in that situation should cause the character to become even more apt to question first impulses and easy answers, more inclined to think things over. Even if your character can't solve the problems, being confronted by them should make him more of an "active" type of character--one who feels a greater burden of responsibility.

Even the realization that there is nothing the character can do in a situation is an increase in "activity", since before becoming involved the character wasn't doing anything and wasn't even thinking about doing anything about that situation.

So, if that's something like the criteria your critic was using in examining the character's lack of an active role, then you do seem to have a problem. And it's easy to fix, you just need to change the character's internal process of decision making.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
franc li
Member
Member # 3850

 - posted      Profile for franc li   Email franc li         Edit/Delete Post 
While you were sleeping is about a passive character, up until she comes clean. It was also, in a sense, pressing an off button. It's one of my favorite movies. Another that bears consideration is Groundhog Day. I mean, he goes through a cycle of dealing with the inability to change things.

It would have been kind of cool if OSC had included the "man was created to act an not to be acted upon" sermon in his Homecoming Series adaptation of the Book of Mormon. Maybe he did and I just missed it. I can't even recall the character's name at the moment, but it was the father of the family group.


Posts: 366 | Registered: Sep 2006  | Report this post to a Moderator
johnbrown
Member
Member # 1467

 - posted      Profile for johnbrown   Email johnbrown         Edit/Delete Post 
Carribean, Caribbean: whatever it takes...

Ah, but in GROUNDHOG day he does act. He tries a million ways to kill himself, then tries to make the best of it by trying to get the gal in bed, then...he succeeds in dealing with this problem and busts out of it. He keeps trying until he gets it right.

Here's the summary of sleepless. There's an inciting event--the boy calling. The characters both develop goals from this. They then try to acheieve them working around obstacles, etc.

Tom Hanks stars as widower and single father Sam. When Sam's son, Jonah (Ross Malinger), calls into a talk radio program looking for a new mother, Sam ends up getting on the phone and laments about his lost love. Thousands of miles away, Annie (Meg Ryan) hears the program and immediately falls in love with Sam, despite the fact that she has never met him and that she is engaged to humdrum Walter (Bill Pullman). Believing they are meant to be together, Annie sets out for Seattle to meet Sam, who, meanwhile, contends with an onslaught of letters from available women equally touched by his phone call.

I can't think of any story off-hand where something doesn't interrupt the hero's life, some inciting event that poses some type of loss or threat or problem, then the hero spends the rest of the story trying to fix the problem.

In Sleepless, the problem for Ryan's character is she's engaged to the wrong person. She tries to ignore it a number of times, but her attempts, her action doesn't work.

[This message has been edited by johnbrown (edited May 10, 2005).]


Posts: 327 | Registered: Jul 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
You've got Groundhog Day totally backwards. He doesn't start trying to kill himself (and succeeding, for the most part) until after he gives up on trying to get Rita in bed.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
johnbrown
Member
Member # 1467

 - posted      Profile for johnbrown   Email johnbrown         Edit/Delete Post 
It's been too long.

The point was that the character reacted to the initial event. Took action, faced obstacles, took more.


Posts: 327 | Registered: Jul 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, but you've got the...I'll stay on topic.

Groundhog Day is actually a very existential story. The main character is the only obstacle. He doesn't overcome the endless loop, he overcomes himself. That's what sets it apart from all the "endless replay" stories before and after.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
johnbrown
Member
Member # 1467

 - posted      Profile for johnbrown   Email johnbrown         Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly.

This is a character story, the resolution of the problem requires the character to change. The problem is the endless loop which is thrust upon him. The solution: he loses himself to get his life back.

It seems like you're objecting to something, but I don't see what it is.


Posts: 327 | Registered: Jul 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
The endless loop isn't the problem, that's virtually the entire point of the movie. He's the problem, everything that has to be overcome is in himself.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
johnbrown
Member
Member # 1467

 - posted      Profile for johnbrown   Email johnbrown         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think you and I are saying anything different.

One technique in character stories is to thrust a character into new circumstances. This is the external problem. The key to the external problem is solving the inner one.

Groundhog Day is one of those stories. A contrived and funny external problem forces him to deal with his inner issues. We know he's changed when he'd faced with the same situation as before, but he chooses differently. The story starts not when we see him being mean and grumpy, but when he wakes up and repeats the same day. That's the beginning of the problem.

Last Samurai is another. He's a drunk, hating himself for choosing expediency over honor. He's thrust into a situation that forces him to deal with his issue. Then he's given a chance to choose again. He chooses wisely.


Posts: 327 | Registered: Jul 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
But the eternal repetition of Groundhog Day isn't a problem, in and of itself. The movie goes to some lengths to show that, after a few days to get used to the idea, it's almost like a dream come true. In the world he enters, he has nearly perfect predictive power, he doesn't have to worry about physical injury or even death, he has all the time in the world to do whatever he wants, he is, in his own words, God.

But he's unhappy, because of himself. That's the essential core of an existential story. He has near total freedom and power, but happiness eludes him because he isn't a happy person.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyre Dynasty
Member
Member # 1947

 - posted      Profile for Pyre Dynasty   Email Pyre Dynasty         Edit/Delete Post 
Does anybody else notice a parallell between groundhog day and the conversation between Survivor and John?
Posts: 1895 | Registered: Mar 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
johnbrown
Member
Member # 1467

 - posted      Profile for johnbrown   Email johnbrown         Edit/Delete Post 
lol

I'm dying. Good one.


Posts: 327 | Registered: Jul 2002  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Er...I'm going to say "no."
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2