Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Question about guys and sex

   
Author Topic: Question about guys and sex
Keeley
Member
Member # 2088

 - posted      Profile for Keeley   Email Keeley         Edit/Delete Post 
If a guy has sex with a woman more than once, does that mean that an attachment of some sort on his side (it doesn't have to be love) has formed? Or can a guy have sex with the same woman more than once without forming any sort of attachment?

Not sure if I phrased that question right, so I'll be more than happy to try re-phrasing it.


Posts: 836 | Registered: Jul 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Christine
Member
Member # 1646

 - posted      Profile for Christine   Email Christine         Edit/Delete Post 
LOL

Well, I'm not a man but I can partially answer your question.

A man can have sex many times with a woman and never fall in love with her. I imagine that there need not be any attachment at all, although I hope this is somewhat rare that they don't even feel some sort of humanity towards her.

In fact, I had a rather stupid friend in college who had several long-term boyfriends, all of whom she had sex with within twenty-four hours of meeting. Basically, as long as she put out, and as long as they weren't ready to commit to someone who wasn't a controlling shrew, they took the sex. I knew several of them, and as far as I knew only one even felt guilty about leaving her in the end. Another thought the whole thing was kind of funny.


Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Beth
Member
Member # 2192

 - posted      Profile for Beth   Email Beth         Edit/Delete Post 
I've also known guys who get hopelessly attached after one encounter. The stereotype is that guys are just out for sex and women are the ones who get attached but people are complicated and it's hard to generalize.

I had a boyfriend who, after a very brief acquaintance, was completely convinced that we were getting married and would get old and die together; I was pretty sure I'd be over him by the time the next season of Survivor started.


Posts: 1750 | Registered: Oct 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
mikemunsil
Member
Member # 2109

 - posted      Profile for mikemunsil   Email mikemunsil         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If a guy has sex with a woman more than once, does that mean that an attachment of some sort on his side (it doesn't have to be love) has formed? Or can a guy have sex with the same woman more than once without forming any sort of attachment?

Men's range of bonding is just as great as women's range, but the commonality is skewed more towards your second sentence than your first, I believe.

Are you working on a believable guy character? Make him a person first, and let the story dictate the remainder.

Guys will often remember their first sexual liasion with some pride and/or fondness, if they were treated well and if they treated their partner well. If not, in my opinion both got hurt: one by the other, and one self-inflicted.


Posts: 2710 | Registered: Jul 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Keeley
Member
Member # 2088

 - posted      Profile for Keeley   Email Keeley         Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting comments so far.

The reason I'm asking is because I have an unsympathetic character who sleeps with a woman. He thinks she's gorgeous, but he has no further affection than that. I'm thinking of having him see her once or twice more before he leaves the town for good because it will be a way of explaining some of the fantastical elements of the story in an unobstrusive manner. She won't appear again in the story except as a thought later on when the guy has gone through some changes in his thought process. Even then, she'll be lumped in with a bunch of other women he's been with and barely remembered.

The problem is that when I wrote down the outline for the scenes mentioned above, I began to wonder if there wouldn't be some sort of attachment. I mean, he's cold, but at this point in the story, he's not entirely heartless. He would probably call himself a pragmatist and his ethics are definitely consequentialist/"ends justify the means" kind of stuff, though that changes by the end of the story.

Thus, my question.


Posts: 836 | Registered: Jul 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Beth
Member
Member # 2192

 - posted      Profile for Beth   Email Beth         Edit/Delete Post 
I think that's perfectly plausible, Keeley.
Posts: 1750 | Registered: Oct 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Christine
Member
Member # 1646

 - posted      Profile for Christine   Email Christine         Edit/Delete Post 
I see nothing wrong with the outline as you've described it, Keeley. Men come in all different shapes, sizes, egos, and attachments. It's even possible to have a certain ethical point of view on something like this -- I call it the honesty standpoint. As long as you never suggested that the relationship would last, she wasn't lied to and had no reason to think it was.

The true bastard lies about it to get her in bed and keep her there until he's done -- "I love you, baby, you know it'll last forever."


Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Doc Brown
Member
Member # 1118

 - posted      Profile for Doc Brown   Email Doc Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
If I understand your goal correctly, all you need to do it make that character a consistent. If his sex life does not fit the rest of him, then you will call attention to sex and the reader will assume the story is about sex. If he deals with sex the same way he deals with everything else then you will be okay.

That doesn't mean you need to make him shallow. But if you add depth to his sex life, you should add depth to other aspects. If sex is the only deep and complicated thing in his life, you will again be telegraphing to your readers "this is a story about sex."


Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
wbriggs
Member
Member # 2267

 - posted      Profile for wbriggs   Email wbriggs         Edit/Delete Post 
Like Marty, I'm with Doc Brown. Some guys are going to get hooked by the sex, immediately. Some won't ever. Some are in between. What's _your_ character like -- and how does this echo in the rest of his life?

For example, he could be a cocky love-'em-and-leave-'em SOB who can't love anybody but himself. (Added twist: he could fool around and fall in love.) This sort of guy would also be a cocky SOB in the rest of life.

Maybe he's commitmentphobic. We could also notice that all his friendships are shallow.

Maybe he's a bumbler who does what feels good in the moment, and finds himself living with a woman and wonders how it happened.

Best of all -- he could be all three, and more. Good characters often have MULTIPLE motivations.


Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Lord Darkstorm
Member
Member # 1610

 - posted      Profile for Lord Darkstorm   Email Lord Darkstorm         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think it has as much to do with sex, as it does the personality of the man. A man that will sleep with a woman over and over while looking for a new partner will generally have a very low opinion of women. They can be abusive as well. There can be the odd exception, but you would have to have good justification to make him believable.

Now a man can have sex with a woman and not love her, but most decent guys will at least break it off before moving on to another woman.

I would think that the way the man percieves women will be how he would treat and care for them. If a woman is an object to show off and dominate, then the woman has little value and love isn't going to happen. So sex is really a by-product of the individuals character.


Posts: 807 | Registered: Mar 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
It depends on the guy, sure. It also depends on the woman.

Christine's friend is a perfect example of the kind of woman with whom even a pretty nice guy will continue a somewhat casual sexual relationship mostly as a way of avoiding making a scene before he has a good excuse for breaking up with her. Sure, a few upper percentile guys aren't going to sleep with her in the first place, but even the good guys will just use sex as a way to keep her docile while they figure out how to terminate the relationship.

On the other hand, conquest type guys come in several types, and go after different kinds of women. For some of them, stringing a woman along for as long as possible is the name of the game. They're looking for women that can be strung along, who really want a commitment Where a conquer once guy will only get a thrill out of the first time, and doesn't really work to keep a relationship going. But both types will be flattered if a woman "comes back for more". That she would do that proves the depth of the conquest. Still, neither will be likely to turn her down unless it means giving up on a new conquest.

If the woman is the "conquerer", and the guy knows it, he might have a negative attachment, hating himself every time he gives in, but that probably counts as attachment. Or she might just be casual about sex. If the guy is also pretty casual about it, there is no reason either would see multiple occasions as being particularly special. She could be using him, deliberately offering sex to form an attachment. The guy might be stealing the bait in that case, taking a bit of pride in avoiding getting hooked.

Like I said, it depends on both the guy and the woman.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
Keeley
Member
Member # 2088

 - posted      Profile for Keeley   Email Keeley         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the responses, everyone. I'm still mulling over the guy's character so I'll welcome any further responses to this thread. However, my current decision is to go ahead and have them hook up a couple more times before he moves on : no promises given, none expected and no attachment formed.

[This message has been edited by Keeley (edited May 17, 2005).]


Posts: 836 | Registered: Jul 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Three Minute Egg
Member
Member # 2523

 - posted      Profile for Three Minute Egg   Email Three Minute Egg         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with where Survivor seemed to be going - sex is a two-way street. Maybe this woman happens to be the type that is comfortable having casual sex with an acquaintance, and your character is just another warm body.

If he's a slave to his penis, he could easily hook-up with "Miss Right Now" and never feel a thing (emotionally!)


Posts: 66 | Registered: Apr 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
RavenStarr
Member
Member # 2327

 - posted      Profile for RavenStarr   Email RavenStarr         Edit/Delete Post 
Dang'it... every time I leave for a bit I miss all the good questions... I'll answer it anyways… 'cause I have nothing better to do...

You're speaking of an individual’s psychological response to a specific situation; so technically it all depends on the individual’s own psychological state. Can a person have sex with the same person more than once? Yes... Friends with Benefits, for instance, do it all the time... but not everybody I know of is cool with the whole FWB situations (me being one of them). Some people, such as myself, are a bit "old fashioned" and still prefer to associate sex with love (while some associate love with sex)... so, if I have sex with some one, I was "attached" prior.


Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
Avatar300
Member
Member # 1655

 - posted      Profile for Avatar300           Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I agree with Ravenstarr: I would need to be deeply attached (read: in love and ready for long-term commitment). But people come in all ways. So yes, depending on character, a guy could sleep with the same woman and feel no attachment.

I would like to point out that a woman can do so also, although the question seems to be implying that it is strictly a "guy thing." I find this insulting.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
HSO
Member
Member # 2056

 - posted      Profile for HSO   Email HSO         Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't see this topic earlier. How did I miss it?

Anyway, I tend to believe that sex and love are entirely different things. But I strongly feel that there can be nothing better than having sex with someone you love. And I believe that bonds are strengthened between two people in love when they have sex.

Sex, at its most basic level, is a biological necessity. Regardless of societal customs and religious beliefs, nearly everyone has some desire to procreate. It is absolutely necessary for species survival. We like to dress it up, but there's no denying its true purpose. That we can also have sex for non-proceative reasons is not unique to humans, but nevertheless is fascinating. Moreover, that we can override our instinct and choose NOT to have sex is extremely fascinating.

Everyone responds differently of course. This is a product of several factors, including society, customs, religous beliefs, and individual experiences, as well as "second-hand" experience (friends, family, etc.). If you are raised to believe that sex is bad, dirty, naughty, evil, and the like, then you may carry those beliefs into your adulthood. Or you may rebel against them. Either way, everything that happens in your life will shape your attitude towards sex in general. Our minds are rather malleable. We are essentially products of our environment. And we need only look to other customs and societies for evidence of this.

Let's not leave out simple sexual attraction. It is completely possible to be sexually attracted to someone, and yet not really like them very much. A good many relationships start this way. Many frown on this model of relationships -- it's probably not psychologically healthy. It may very well be physically unhealthy. Perhaps, it is only "practice". Perhaps it's something else.

So, whether male or female, each person is going to approach a sexual relationship differently. But the one common thing is mostly all of us desire to have sex. It's in our genes. How we handle our sexual relationships are a direct result of our life experience. There is no true stereotype, and anything is possible.

Are women generally more monogamous then men? I strongly doubt it. My experience in the military proved to me that this is patently untrue. In fact, more military spouses cheated on their husbands than the other way around. Why? I don't know, really. Loneliness, maybe. That need to be with someone, to feel wanted and loved. Maybe the passion has waned. Or maybe it's justified when a spouse is away for up to a year. I got engaged very young to a woman I met while in the military. I got sent to Japan, and she stayed behind in the states. Some of the guys I knew in the states came to Japan shortly after I did and told me what my fiancee was up to in my absence. When I confronted her about it, she didn't lie. She admitted that she was lonely and needed someone all the time. I was also lonely, and I had several opportunities to sleep with other women. But I didn't. Because I was raised that this inappropriate behavior. And because of that belief, I did not stray. Upon her admission of cheating, I ended our engagement. Obviously, we had different moralities, and we could never be happy together, nor could I ever trust her in any regard.

Undeniably, it is possible to be in love with someone and still be sexually attracted to someone else. Whether one acts on that attraction is a matter of morality, I suppose (or in some cases, far too much alcohol). But I feel that's societal or religious morality at work, not necessarily your instinctual morality. I am still madly in love with my wife, but I freely admit that I'm often attracted to other women... Angelina Jolie, for instance. I think she's an idiot, but she's hot. And it would be a real test of will if she found me attractive and intimated that she'd like to have sex with me. This will never happen, of course, but that I feel that attraction doesn't mean I don't love and adore my wife. It just means I'm human. And at least I have the will to choose my actions, for better or worse. I don't have to be a slave to my hormones, I can overcome them. It's not always easy, but often the right thing to do isn't easy.

Anyway, that's my long-winded take. If I'm lucky, I've properly offended someone with something above.


Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
I think that you mean you would need to be deeply attached to have sex at all. Or you might not mean that

I don't think that most guys could sleep with a woman twice and feel no attachment. I mean, for the purposes of the psychology I have to assume that he at least remembered that he'd had sex with her before, right? But that's assuming an attachment prior to the subsequent episodes. If a guy doesn't remember that he's already had sex with a particular woman, he isn't likely to suddenly remember it after having sex with her a second time (it's possible if he has had sex with a lot of women, is not very bright or was incapacitated, and this particular woman has some outstanding characteristic that becomes apparent only during sex).

For myself, assuming that I'd had sex with a woman before becoming deeply attached to her, I can see no logical reason that having one or two more encounters with her would cause me to form deep feelings for her. For guys, feelings lead to sex, not the other way round. If the feelings that led to sex the first time are shallow, then those same feelings (or even shallower feelings, like laziness) will be sufficient for a couple more times.

Eventually easy sex can be habit forming, but the addiction is to sex in general (or to a fetish, but we won't go there), not sex with a particular woman.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
whataboutbob85
New Member
Member # 2588

 - posted      Profile for whataboutbob85   Email whataboutbob85         Edit/Delete Post 
Alright, this statement is coming from a guy. I don't believe a guy could have sex with a woman more than once without some kind of attachment. I say this because, when you are having sex, you are sharing something special with someone whether you think so or not. You are bound to create some kind of attachment, it's human nature. It's also what made you go back for more after the first time and what will keep you going back for more in the future. At least, that is my perspective on the question.
Posts: 8 | Registered: May 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Well...maybe. But the attachment doesn't have to be any deeper the second time you have sex than it would have been the first time.

I mean, the first time you have sex with someone, you probably have more reasons not to have sex with that person than you would after already having had sex (assuming that you don't find out something deeply disturbing about that person during or subsequent to the first time). So it isn't reasonable to think that having sex a second or third time means that you are more "attached". It's possible, but far from certain...probably far from likely.

However "attached" you had to be to have sex once, that amount will suffice for the second round. Sure, lots of relationships get stronger over time, but lots of relationships end up fizzling after a while (sometimes a very short while).


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
I have ummed and ahhed about wieighing in on this one.

Men are very good at compartmentalising their thoughts about things like this.

Now this may seem unsavoury but please bear with the analogy.

Why does a hooker have sex? Can they have sex with the same guy more than once and not become attached. Of course they can! They have a reason too.

Similarly, and please don't think I am saying 'all men are hookers' but you have to know the reason for sex before you can make a generalisation about attachment.

I find the question says more about the asker than the answerers. It is almost amzing to think that someone may believe that men have less reasons to sleep with someone than the woman they are sleeping with.

You have to know WHY the guy is having sex.
Believe it or not we can have lots of reasons.

tsk tsk tsk!

In a nutshell, Mike's first response was spot-on.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited May 23, 2005).]


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Keeley
Member
Member # 2088

 - posted      Profile for Keeley   Email Keeley         Edit/Delete Post 
I think I need to clarify my point in asking this question as it seems that some are thinking I'm sexist by asking this question.

I've known far more women -- friends, family and acquaintances -- who have cared nothing for the guys they've been with than I have men. In fact, just from what I've heard and seen, men tend to form stronger attachments and are more crushed by break-ups than women. They may act like they don't care, but they do. In fact, I've noticed guys hide a lot of emotions where few can see.

That's been my experience.

That's why I asked this question. I thought maybe, when it came to something so intimate, that there was something I might have missed. Thanks to all the responses, I've decided to stick with my character's superficial reasons that he made pretty clear in the first place. Of course, it won't be that simple later on in the story, but I digress.

Now, back to writing.

[This message has been edited by Keeley (edited May 24, 2005).]


Posts: 836 | Registered: Jul 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
I think that the problem is that guys are more likely to assume that the woman feels something special. Also, when a relationship is really over...pining over a lost love is something that is more acceptable in men than in women, at least in our own culture.

But as for sex...I don't know whether the act of sex directly affects a woman's feelings for a man. I suspect it does. The same is simply not as true of men. I won't say it's not true at all, because men and women are from the same species, there's bound to be some similarity.

But generally speaking, if a guy is totally smitten with a woman after sex, then he felt that way before sex. If he feels like they have a life-long bond after the second time, he probably felt that way after the first time and before the first time.

Guys feel just as smashed up about break-ups when there was never any sexual activity, after all. Often more so.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
HSO
Member
Member # 2056

 - posted      Profile for HSO   Email HSO         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Guys feel just as smashed up about break-ups when there was never any sexual activity, after all. Often more so.

True. And one of the more devestating lines a woman can use is: "I only want to be friends."

Oh, it seems harmless enough. But if a guy likes a woman, wants more than friendship, those words are the equivalent of a 4-ton Acme anvil dropping out of the sky and landing our heads, squashing us flat, and leaving us permanently scarred.

And if the guy is silly enough to accept that friendship thinking something good might happen later (when 99% of the time the relationship won't change), then that's like running off a cliff while chasing that road runner, staying supsended in the air long enough to realize your folly, and finally plummeting several thousand feet to a sticky end and a dusty mushroom cloud.

Well, it can be like that. After the first dozen or so times of being foiled, we begin to take a more practical view of dating. At the first sign of disinterest, we run, run, run.


Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004  | Report this post to a Moderator
Doc Brown
Member
Member # 1118

 - posted      Profile for Doc Brown   Email Doc Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
Keely, here's something a woman writer ought to consider:

There are alpha males, then there are the rest of us. While all humans are potential victims of having our hearts broken by the opposite sex, the alpha males are the ones who most often break women's hearts. The rest of us get broken. Frequently.

In the animal kingdom, especially mammals, the female's job is to choose her mate. The male's job is to get chosen . . . or live a lonesome life.

<Pardon me now while I thank God I'm married.>


Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think it's fair to state that in a way that implies that alphas have no chance of being hurt or anything like that. Or to say it like they go around breaking hearts on purpose.

Besides, by alluding to marriage you point out one of many ways that the concept of "alpha male" simply doesn't apply to modern humans.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
franc li
Member
Member # 3850

 - posted      Profile for franc li   Email franc li         Edit/Delete Post 
(prefacing with a reminder that I am female and married over 14 years) This is kind of an older thread and I missed it the first time but I wanted to comment:

quote:
I've known far more women -- friends, family and acquaintances -- who have cared nothing for the guys they've been with than I have men.

I assume you mean "talked to" and not met. Assuming you're a woman. Also, "talked to" could be different from "told the truth by". Maybe just as there are more women who smoke than men (or maybe the market growth was bigger at one point) women try to conceal their feelings more now in the post-feminist era, which was once more of a male behavior. Just possibilities.

I think something that hasn't been addressed is the proportion of encounters that end in "satisfaction" for a male (close to 100%) as opposed to a female (??%). My only insight into this is my experience with women in the military. They tended to marry the first man they met who "satisfied" them, after a while of shopping. I'd gather that a younger woman's chances of finding a first encounter with any given male satisfying are probably about 5%. So that could be another explanation of you knowing a lot of women who didn't get emotionally invested.


Posts: 366 | Registered: Sep 2006  | Report this post to a Moderator
Void
Member
Member # 2567

 - posted      Profile for Void           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
My only insight into this is my experience with women in the military. They tended to marry the first man they met who "satisfied" them, after a while of shopping.

Gracious! I hope that wasn't the only criteria for marrying them.


Posts: 150 | Registered: May 2005  | Report this post to a Moderator
franc li
Member
Member # 3850

 - posted      Profile for franc li   Email franc li         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah... pretty much. I guess they did all the other sorting for compatibility, such as it was, on the way to deciding whether to have an "encounter" in the first place. It's wasn't a discotheque, after all. Intra-service marriages do have a disastrous failure rate, at least as far as I was able to tell.

[This message has been edited by franc li (edited June 13, 2005).]


Posts: 366 | Registered: Sep 2006  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Oh $#!^

Poor Ferguson, and all those other poor drunken slobs! I feel so bad knowing this.

Oh well.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2