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Author Topic: A Question of Names
Meenie
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How important do you think the names of your characters are? The question came up because I put something up in the fragments section and a couple of people didn't like the name of my evil doer
I think character names are important and they can be hard to think up at times. I do have to say though, that I really really hate the ones that are unpronouncable (also unpronouncable place names).
At times I don't like the name of a character in a book I'm reading particularly hard when it's a main character) but if I really get into the story that becomes less of an issue. However, if I can't pronounce the name it bugs me from start to finish and I probably won't read another story by the same author. Why do people do that??Ugh...
What do ya'll think?
Meenie

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mikemunsil
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I think that's one of the last things to worry about. Get the basics fo your story down first. If, on the other hand, you have no other issues... good job!
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Christine
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Character names are an interseting study. They are, to my mind, quite imprtant for characterization. Some people don't even worry about that, they mark the names with an "X" or something and fill them in at the end. But I offer this in terms of characterization: What ethnic, racial, or speciies background do they have? What kind of home did they grow up in that shaped them as an adult (or if they're still a child...)? What kind of name would a parent like that have given them? All this goes to characterization.

Or what if you have a race that chooses their own name at maturity? Why would they have chosen their name? What is its significance?

Nickanmes are often more personal, too, and go to characterization. It is highly important to me that my name is Christine, not Christy, not Chrissy (shudder...anything that rhymes with prissy ), not Chris...Parly it's that my mom never wanted my name shortened, but I took on her fervor about it. That's a prt of me.

And then there are made up names. These, too, are highly important. First, why did you make them up instead of going with familiar names? An alien species probably has unique names, at least if they vocalize. I have a non-vocal race of aliens with names I made up, too, though, because most of our familiar names are based in the religion and mythology of our various cultures and would have nothing to do with an alien race, whether they vocalize or not.

Then there are other important considerations. First, the pronunciation is KEY. I cannot stand to read a story with a name I can't pronounce. Also, whoever thought that fantasy names were best formed with apostrophes needs to be shot. Basically, just because you made it up doesn't mean it can't be sensible. Here are a couple of names I made up, taking care to come up with things I thought people could prounounce: Silina, Aberetta, Hanre, Kryton...you don't recognize them so you might have to do a double take but there's nothing there you can't figure out how to prounounce.

Another important feature or names is that while they do have some important to characterization and the like, they do become tokens the reader uses to identify them. In the end, the faster they can identify the token and move on the better, especially for "tokens" that come up on a regular basis (ie main characters). The best way to do this it to come up with names that do not look or sound alike. For exmplae, I had cutesty stories where they have twins they name Brian and Brianna or something like that. It takes a lot of work to identify the token there. On the other hand, if you call them Brian and Christine (not that random, my borhter's name is Brian) then your readers will see the first letter(s) and assume they know who you're talking about.

In fact, it creates such an ease of reading that I highly recommend this strategy, even if in real life you knew ten Jennifers in school, in your books there can be only one, and in fact, I'd stay away from Jamies and Jeremys and the like..at least for main characters. I sometimes have a couple letters of the alphabet I reserve for any one-shot or really minor character that doesn't show up often and doesn't matter much.

One problem with names that is often out of an author's control is connocation. It isn't ALWAYS out of a reader's control. Since the 1940's, it ha not been a good idea to name someone Adolf, for example. Now, if you want us to hate him, go ahead.

There are a few general rules like this, but often the connocations are more personal. For example, I don't like the name Bridget at all because I knew a Bridget who was very mean to me and we got into a fight after school one day. But how can you plan for that? You can't. These things just happen.

In fact, sometimes when readers tell me they don't like a name they are talking precisely about something like me and Bridget.

Do a little research on names, too. A search for baby names has given me lots of search engines and tools for finding out about names. I've even seen name surveys, where they ask people what they think of a name. For example, babynames.com has surveys every day. Today's is "MUNIYA" -- as of right now, it seems incredibly unpopular. (For me, it was one of those...How do you even pronounce that? sort of things.)

I think I've rambled on about this enough. There have probably been five responses since I started.


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wbriggs
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I think it's pretty important if it's a made-up or unusual name. Maybe even otherwise.

Names should suggest, but not beat you over the head, with connotation (or at least they shouldn't get them horribly wrong). In LotR, the bad place was Mordor (sounds like murder). The bad guy was Sauron (sounds like dinosaur and Satan). Frodo doesn't sound like much. Bilbo sounds informal. Samwise does too, esp. when you read that it means "half-wise."

I think if it's modern Anglo names, it won't matter as much, but there's still a little. Rich is less formal than Richard, and Mr. Jones is more formal still.

And I agree, coming across someone names Ch'jrka'po' is annoying!


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NewsBys
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When I write, I feel like I need to pick some name for the character right away. I need to call them something. I have been know to change the name in the middle of the story if I think of a better one.

Also, I try to pick a name that conveys some sense of thier personality.
In one story I had a really stuck-up woman I named Priscilla (nickname Prissy). I hoped that the word prissy would convey some of her personality.
Another character I named after a type of orchid, because her parents were botanists.

On the other hand, if you pick a name that is opposite to the character's personality it can be weird.


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Elan
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I make up most of my names, but it's because I'm creating an alternate fantasy world and I don't want them sounding too familiar. Occasionally I'll take a regular name and give it a twist when I spell it - like Ralf instead of Ralph. I generally go for names that are easy for me to pronounce and remember how to spell. I hate it when I give a character a name that I continually have to go back and check my own spelling against.

If you have a primary character with a name that people hate, you might ask a few of them what it is that they hate about it. Maybe you want them to hate the name. Maybe it's too unwieldy and you'd be better off making a slight adaptation to it.

What's the name you had in question? Ask us, outside the context of the story, and we can give you some feedback on it.


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Meenie
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Wow, what a bunch of great replies!
The name that made me start thinking along these lines isn't really in question, but I've had parts of the story I'm working on critted in different places and most people have liked the name,have even gone out of their way to tell me how much they liked it, but a couple of people here did not, which got me to thinking about the importance of names in general (I think they're very important and always name my characters immediately - I have to know my character well! )
The name I used for my bad guy (evil sorceror type) is Dreth. I think it's short, strong, easy to remember (and it sounds sorta like "death") ... unless, perhaps, you're saying it with a slow Southern drawl, lol. Being a big fan of Tolkien, I think along those lines: mordor sounds like murder, etc. But a couple of folks went so far as to tell me his name is 'lame' and 'pathetic'. LOL.
But the real question is what does a character's name evoke for you, as a READER, when you first come upon it?
For me as a WRITER, my names mean a lot to me because I know what that character will be - their personality traits, their morals, their feelings and thoughts, etc. But will they evoke those things to the reader upon first reading? Probably not nearly so much.
And the reader doesn't know, when first introduced to a character, what that character might turn out to be. Maybe Dreth will turn out to be a real sweet guy buried under a pile of defensive anger Maybe the real bad guy in my story is an elf named Twinkie! LOL!!
One thing that other critters (from other groups) have complained about in this same story is that two of my characters (one THE main char, and the other a strong secondary char) have names that start with the same letter: Armina and Alwynne (granddaughter and grandmother, respectively). And I've only had two people ever complain that Armina is called Mina by her family and friends.(one here and one from another group) Intersting, eh?
So it's obvious to me that names mean different things to different people. I think it's more like getting to know an unattactive person. When you first meet them, you think they're ugly, but if you get to know and like them, you stop thinking of them that way, it becomes a pleasure to see them, their face is familiar and pleasurable to you. Does that make sense?
Meenie

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wbriggs
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You'll definitely get conflicting opinions! I'd say if several say the same, consider what they're saying . . . but it's still your call. (Same as if it's only one saying it!)

One thing I want is for it to be easy for my readers to get what I'm saying (the more work it is, the more likely they'll put the book down). So having characters' names with the first letter the same, or giving a character a name and a nickname, adds to the cost, but it may be worth it. Remember _Sliders_? MC's name is Quinn, but one of the characters (and only one) called him Q-ball. Cute, and worth it. Too much of it would have been confusing.

Same for naming a Japanese burger-flipper "Aristotle," or an American milquetoast type "Thor Savage." It could work, but it will _take_ work.

Pay me my 2 cents now!


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Survivor
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Allysutoutolu sounds like a great name for some poor japanese girl flipping burgers all day

If most people in your audience respond to a name the way you want them to respond, then it's a good name.

I usually want three things from a name. First, I want to avoid reminding the reader that I'm just making the whole thing up (except when I'm writing the sort of fourth-wall-violation comedy I never write). Second, I want to create an impression in the reader's mind, a somewhat subconscious judgement about that character. I also usually want to bring a bit of the character's "backstory" to life, give the reader a reminder that this person comes from somewhere. And finally, I'm looking to give the reader a name to associate with that character.

I have to admit, "Dreth" still doesn't work for me. I would have a hard time taking a character with that particular name seriously. That would be fine for a farce, I even like farce. But my personal taste precludes it from being a good name for a serious character.


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Meenie
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2-cents to wbriggs You earned it!
And I agree that anything we receive in a crit is totally up to us to use or discard
I learned that long long ago!
But we're here to learn - at least I am. So I do listen and consider the points that others make.
And Survivor, I do understand that you don't care for the name "Dreth" Will I keep it? Maybe, maybe not. Thing is, I haven't really written much about him at this point. My concentration thus far has been about Armina, her life, who she is, why she's doing what she ends up doing. Dreth is in the back of my mind right now, his interactions are mostly indirect for the time being.
BUT, by your suggestion and that of others, I do intend to expand the prologue (probably just make it chapter 1 instead of a prologue) and tell more about him up front - so I'll have to consider his name more in-depth.
There's another character in there whose name has been changed twice, in fact. But you haven't met him yet
Another name that always kinda gave me the giggles for a bad guy was Strider (or was it Stridor?) - It always made me think of baby shoes (stride-rite).
Meenie

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dpatridge
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well... there's really nothing left here for me to say, but i basically ditto Christine word-for-word.

Survivor and briggs has some good points too, you really should be careful with your character names not to put off the reader by using something either A: difficult to comprehend, or B: too obviously made-up.

although i sometimes violate B if i have a reason to, i never, EVER, violate A.

i, too, must have my characters named at least with a temporary name before i can even continue working with them. i can not commit a character to a story until they have a name and familial ties.


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Survivor
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Um...are we talking about the same Strider?

If we are, the point of that name is that it is mildly derisive, mocking the fact that he spends a lot of time on foot (the name "Footsie" was rejected as being a little too silly*). And, er, he's...not a bad guy

If you're thinking of someone else, I'll have to claim ignorance of the subject.

*I could give a statistic about the veracity of anecdotes right now, but probably none of you would believe me


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Shendülféa
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Character names aren't really that important to me, at least in the sense that they reveal a character's motives or beliefs or whatever. I actually always thought it was a bit cheesy to name a character based off of their most prominent characteristics. For instance, naming a faithful woman "Faith". I also don't care much for names that are meant to be symbols of some sort (or to reveal that a character symbolizes something). That always seemed a bit cheesy as well.

Yet, when I take a look at a couple of names that I have for two of my main characters, it looks as if they might symbolize something, but they don't. It's coincidence. I named one of my characters "Saavro," which, if you knew my story, might suggest that he symbolizes a saviour of some sort. The other character is Gabriel, which may suggest to some that he is like Gabriel the Archangel. If I ever publish this book, I'm almost sure that people are going to make that misinterpretation of those names. But oh well...what can I do (aside from renaming them, that is...)?


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Meenie
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Oh no, not Aragorn!
It must have been spelled Stridor. He was a seeker-type creature in a very bad story from years ago. Only the name stands out because of the connotation. LOL
Meenie

PS: Since I read LoTR when I was 11, infants shoes didn't make an impact to me at that time, rofl.

[This message has been edited by Meenie (edited June 08, 2005).]


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franc li
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You seem unusually nice for someone named meenie
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Meenie
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Well, thank you, franc li.
I'll let you in on the secret of how "Meenie" came about
Many years ago (OUCH!) when I first got a computer, and few people were on the internet yet (including me), I was on a network called The ImagiNation Network or INN for short.
It was a great place and had a lot of different things to offer, but the place I frequented was an RPG called Twinion.
My name there was Armina. The character name was actually taken from a book by Anne McCaffrey and my 11 year old daughter chose the name, but she spelled it wrong - it should have been Arimina or Aramina.
Anyway, as I quested through the dungeon there with a group of other RPG'rs one particular friend started calling me "Meenie" - he said it would scare the monsters away, LOL. It didn't work too well, but the name stuck and I've been "Meenie" ever since. There are even a lot of people in the Real World who call me Meenie, and it's on my license plate as well!
(I remember once going to Busch Gardens with two guys and while in the bathroom heard them outside the door calling (in falsetto voices) "Meenie... Meeeeennnnnnnie" And this little asian lady turns to me and says "I tink dey call you." LOL
You'll note it's spelled Meenie, not Meanie THEN I'd HAVE to be mean <G>
Meenie

[This message has been edited by Meenie (edited June 08, 2005).]


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Jeraliey
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When I am asked "Who are you?", my first response is, "Jeraliey" (or my real-world equivalent ). Our names are central to our identities; they are the symbols that we use to represent ourselves to other people, since we have no way of otherwise succinctly communicating our essences.

While names might not be remarkably important for the author during the writing process, you gotta believe they're vital to the character. Until he, she, or it gets a name, the character is solely a tool for the author to maniupulate, and not a person in his or her own right. Sometimes you might want a tool instead of a person as a character in your story. However, in order to have a character who is truly an individual, he or she MUST have a name.

$0.02


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Lullaby Lady
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One of my favorite "name creators" of all time has to be Dickens. When I get stuck for inspiration, I like to peruse some of his stuff, and the ideas start flowing again.

~LL


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Blue_Rabbit
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Chosing names is the best part, maybe because it's the easiest one They are good, if they resonate with the character. I use name lists, imagination and random generators.
There's only one rule: I try to give each character a name starting with another letter of alphabet. This way no one will confuse heroes. If I make an exception to this rule, I make sure that the chars can't be mistaken with each other (for example, one of them has only a minor role).

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Shendülféa
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I invent my own names so that they fit in with the cultures that I have created for my novels. If I use contemporary names, it sounds so uncouth. It's very important for me to come up with names that are going to fit into the world I've invented.
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rickfisher
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The names I give my characters never mean, nor are they intended to mean, anything. However, they do have connotations, even if I just make the name up. I can't write about characters named "x" because I don't know them yet. When I'm trying to think of names, I keep rejecting ones that just don't fit, somehow. If I picked one of them, it would influence my writing and alter the character I'd envisioned.

It's funny, because as a reader, I can handle most any name. Just like I can in the real world. Oh, sometimes I meet someone whose name seems at odds with their appearance, or their behavior, but I get over it almost right away, and the same will happen when I'm reading. But when I'm writing, I have to get acceptable names in place from the start.


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Meenie
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An example clicked into my mind about names. When I read The Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks... Flick and Shea Ohmsford.
I expected Shea to be female. Does it sound like a female name to you?
Of course, it was hinted at before we meet Shea, when Allanon asked Flick if he had a brother. But it was several more pages before Shea's name was mentioned.
That Shea was Flick's brother (really distant cousin) was quickly straightened out. But the name always seemed to me to be for a female.
So, imho, names are extremely subjective, personal to the inventor, with reasons for liking or disliking being personal to the reader.
A true example is my older sister named for some outlandish reason: Mary Nancy.
Not a name that rolls off the tongue easily, at least to my way of thinking.
Of course my parents had their own reasons for wanting to name her that, but I was always glad she was born first, LOL
Meenie

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RaymondJohn34
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I have always loved this subject.
I have always been able to make up names quite easily. I do try to make a male name for a male and female name for female.
Once my story started taking my character to differant parts of the world, I realized the name differance in those places and did some research on names and from those areas. Some of the research however didn't quite sit good with what I wanted for my story(some names being used only after a certain time period).
An example would be MacDonald....the 'Mac' or 'Mc', if my memory is correct stands for 'son of' but was used long after my story actually takes place, so I couldn't use the MacDonlald name. I could have used the Donald name but because of the time frame of my story, the name Donald just didn't work for me. I also wanted the reader to know that just by seeing the name of my character that he was from a certain part of the world.
Another way that I fixed the problem of the name showing where the character is from was to give him a varied way of speaking that seperated his dialogue from someone else speaking. I did not 'phonetically spell out the words, just made him speak a certain way.
I did find other names that if you dropped the 'Mac' or the 'Mc', , it fit right into the story as long as I gave a brief description of the characters homeland.
Another way I fixed this small problem was to briefly explain where the character was from, or describe his accent such as 'having a Gaelic accent'....
With these 'Mac' or 'Mc' names, I found the telephone book a great resource. There are thousands of these names and some look real cool when you drop the 'Mac' or 'Mc'.
--Raymond John

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