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Does anyone have any favorite novels (fiction or nonfiction) or movies that show the time period of the 1st Crusade (1095-1101 AD)? I am not looking for people traveling on the Crusade, but rather what life was like in France, the British Isle or India during that period. Also I am looking for any depictions of Pope Urban II’s speech in France that got the Crusade started. I don’t mind fantasy either. I know there are lots of good movies and books; I need a place to start my research.
Posts: 397 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Are you sure you want to research historical fact using a fictional novel or movie? You won't be able to depend on anything you read/see. While history books may be written by the winner and subject to winner's viewpoint and interpretation, movies and fiction novels are written by people making things up, and subject to Hollywoodization.
In my opinion, you would be better off sticking to history books instead. Not that I have any good suggestions for you of WHICH books to read, mind you... although anyone doing any story on early Christianity should read The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels. It's an easy and interesting read, and gives a lot of historical background about the early Christian church and the schism between the gnostic Christians and what eventually became the Catholic Church. I'm reading "The Da Vinci Code" right now (which is fiction), and there is a lot of reference to the split in the early church.
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited January 20, 2006).]
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For now, I'm looking to get a general feeling for the time period in my mind. Elan, you are right to the extent that I would prefer books or movies that are more accurate than totally fake. But the story I am working on is a historic fantasy.
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Well...I don't know of any specific books or movies like that right off the top of my head, but my thought is that maybe you could look for some pieces of literature written during that time period. Something like Beowulf (but obviously one that was written in France, not England).
I think The Song of Roland is one, but I'm not sure. It's been a long while since I have read it.
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Stephen R. Lawhead is an excellent historical fiction/fantasy author, and from what he says, he does try to be as accurate as humanly possible. The Iron Lance is set at the beginning of the first crusade, and is also the first book of a trilogy.
In fact, I recommend his work in general. Fascinating stuff. (Although, his Arthur series gets a bit repetitive in the later books, but his Song of Albion trilogy is incredible).
[This message has been edited by autumnmuse (edited January 20, 2006).]
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Great, now I can start filling my bookshelf for my winter reading. I really didn't want to hunt and peck and read a bunch of junk.
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If you looking for information on Pope Urban II and the crusades, then go to www.newadvent.comAlso, the Vatican has its own website and all of the Papal Encyclicals are on line. I will warn you though, it (The Vatican's site) is a bit of a bugar to navigate through and once there you can spend hours reading and searching documents documents.
Basically, Alexius I the Emperor of the Eastern Church asked Pope Urban II the leader of the Western Church for help in defending Constantinople from a Muslim band of marauding turks who were aligned with the Saracens, who had captured Jerusalem. At the Council of Clermont in Auvergne, France in November 1095, Pope Urban II pledged help to Alexius I for the defense of Constantinople and men and horses to recapture Jerusalem. Of course, the armies came from the individual kings but it was Pope Urban II's eloquence of speech that moved them into action.
Peace, Scott
[This message has been edited by Zodiaxe (edited January 24, 2006).]
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Yes King Arthur counts and extra thanks for anyone who can come up with a novel set in Tintagel. By the way Zodiaxe, your are right Newadvent is a great site as is the Vatican. And foolish me, I had forgotten Robin Hood. I guess I don't really know when he supposedly lived, but I love him and his men in tights. Posts: 397 | Registered: Mar 2004
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If you're still interested in India at this time, try this website http://www.kamat.com/database . The whole database is excellent and provides lots of information on daily life in India. It is slightly messy, though, but full of good ideas.
(edited to correct the link)
[This message has been edited by Silver3 (edited January 24, 2006).]
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I have a lot of books about India on my shelves, but they mostly deal with India before the 8th century (Jeanine's Auboyer stupendous "Daily Life in Ancient India" comes to mind).
I may have a book ref for you about daily life/culture/literature, but I'm unsure. It's supposed to cover the time period between prehistory and the coming of the Muslims to India (which was in the 13th century). It's "The wonder that was India", by Basham. I can check if you want, but I'm not going to get my hands on it before two weeks.
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I am in no hurry. In fact I am allowing myself six months of reading and thinking before I really begin outlining. I'm searching for details of actual history and historic people that inspire events and backdrops for scenes. In writing my last short story I did unintentionally end up finding out bits about the history of India around that time period which I am following up. Thank you Silver and I hope you hear some good news today--sorry wrong thread, but I was here.
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A non fiction juvenal I have (but can't find!) is GROWING UP WITH THE NORMAN CONQUEST. It detailed life in the four levels of society at the time. Did a good job, too. Easy to absorb information. Its companion carrying on with the four levels idea (also lost somewhere in the depths of my library) is GROWING UP IN 13THE CENTURY ENGLAND.
Adult fiction -- WILLIAM THE CONQUEROR by Georgette Heyer.
[This message has been edited by arriki (edited January 25, 2006).]
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Kickle, I am also writing a historically based novel. From my own experience, I can say that the research never ends. I may start out wanting to spend 4 hours writing and after five minutes I arrive at a road block... "Hmmm, what would have been in this garden?" The next thing I know, I 've just spent six hours researching the issue!
Aside from the usual suspects, food clothing and shelter common to the period, some other things that you may want to consider are:
Language is the biggest. I am having to deal with ancient Aramaic, Latin and Koine Greek, dictionaries and biblical translations don't cut it when it comes to wanting to duplicate how the everyday person spoke. If you are dealing with an archaic or, even worse, a dead language, then be careful, because you cannot substitute a modern language for it. The dialog for your characters can be in modern english, but, if you include a word or sentence in the original language then you need an exxxxtremmmmly accurate translation/transliteration. Trust me, if you have your character say something in 11th century French, then there will be an expert in 11th century French literature that will be reading the book and say..."That's not right."
Normal weather patterns and if necessary, ie an actual battle, the weather for that day. This also brings about climate and landscape.
Hygene
money, exchange and economics
Politics, wayyyy beyond the usual stuff. I was forced to look deep into the affects one action would have on an empire. You also may wind up getting deep into the legal structure of the time and people.
Religious practices, again, waaaayyy beyond the usual stuff. This may cross into philosophy and how one group perceived and tolerated another's religion especially if one group was a conquered people.
Education to include learning a trade
Communication
Transportation
In short, in every little thing I do during the course of a given day, I find myself asking how would this have been done in the time period I am writing about. At times, it causes me to re-write or re-think the passage on which I am currently working.
One last suggestion, in regards to historical fiction, there is nothing the matter with asking for help here or from other people, but try and get in touch with experts. Universities are an extremely valuable resource and on their faculty you will probably be able to find an expert about anything and everything. There are also several sites and publications that deal with court approved expert witnesses and, again, these pubs and sites list experts in field imaginable.
Nothing disgusts a reader of historical fiction more than inaccuracy. Fans of that genre, usually read about the time period with which they are interested and they usually have a vast knowledge about that time period.
In closing, rest assured, you will pretty much become an expert about the time period in which you are writing.
Peace, Scott
[This message has been edited by Zodiaxe (edited January 25, 2006).]
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Just wanted to say thanks. "The Iron Lance" hasn't landed on my doorstep yet, but I started reading Sharon Newman's "Death Comes as Epiphany" and it is exactly what I was looking for.
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Ok, I'm at my parents' home now, and I checked my possible ref for you.
A.L. Basham's "The Wonder that was India" is a survey of culture, daily life, belief politics etc. from Prehistory (but he moves away quickly from that) up to 1200 approximatively.
You might want to check it out. I know I've found it very useful, but I was just looking for insights into the way of thinking and living, not exact historical detail.
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One of my books is based in the meridian of time, between 20 B.C. to about 30 A.D. Go online and google phrases about the subject that you want to research. I have gotten excellent research on Roman army life, life in Nazareth and Jerusalem, etc. The time it takes to travel in Judea and what is meant by an "inn" during that time. Some of it was very surprising and has forced me to change some of my plot lines to fit the facts rather than just writing from imagination. Of course there is a lot of "junk" on the Internet also. You are required to sift for the truth. I have hundreds of pages of research.
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Zodiaxe's suggestions are great. I especially like the one about language. Even if you don't use words from the original language, you will need to be sure you don't use expressions, metaphors, similes and such that would not fit the time period.
Metaphors can be very tricky because we tend to not even think about them and what they allude to. A poorly chosen metaphor can be extremely anachronistic, and a reader who recognizes one will be thrown right out of the story.
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I would venture to say the opposite is also true; a well chosen metaphor can go a long way toward deepening the historic feel in a story. Both of Zodiaxe’s posts got to the bottom of my concerns and why I want to read in time period and genre while I am in the thinking stage of my novel. I have written a novelette (the one which is a finalist in WOTF at this time) which I intend to be the beginning of this novel. The amount of research time that I put into writing the novelette was moderately extensive. My thinking is that if I read in the time period I will get a better feel for which details I want to research in depth and which I can treat superficially. I am writing a fantasy in a historic setting, so while I want it to be accurate, I don’t want the fantasy to be bogged down by the historic facts. Secondarily, I guess what I am researching is how other writers achieve balance between facts and creative storytelling in their writing. Posts: 397 | Registered: Mar 2004
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If you don't read ANYTHING else, read "Knight's Fee," by Rosemary Sutcliff. Set in Sussex during the EXACT period you describe, also involves a battle in France or someplace. One of the vivid scenes depicts New Year's, 1100. Sutcliff was a meticulous researcher and an expert in portraying characters, time, and place.
I don't know if they describe all her books, but some anyway, and it would give you an idea of setting. Many many of her stories were set waaaay back (Iron age, Roman Britain, maybe earlier) and the latest I ever saw her go was about 1750, but she spent a goodish amount of time in the early Middle Ages, too.
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Thank you CSCS great suggestion. It's funny how many things like Robin Hood and Ivanhoe escaped me. I guess I unsually enjoy books and movies and don't nessarily remember exactly when they happened.
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Those are made-up stories anyway, and make King Richard look better than he really was. Check out "The Lion in Winter" for a portrait of his "dysfunctional family."
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