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Author Topic: A Quandary
autumnmuse
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Okay, I have been gradually noticing a trend about myself over the past couple years, but lately it seems to be getting worse, not better. I need advice.

My writing process typically looks like this:

1. Write the first draft in a spurt of inspiration, usually caused by a 90 minute timeline, although I do write stories independently of the flash challenges sometimes.

2. Sit on it forever OR rewrite into a decent length.

3. Post it for critiques. I normally do this the instant after I hit save after getting to the end of the story.

4. Receive insightful critiques that tell me lots of things I never noticed about my work, and which causes me to rewrite.

5. Lather, rinse, repeat. That is, each new draft gets new critiques that make sense and would make the story better, causing me to rewrite again. Then more crits and more rewriting. I ask new people on each draft usually, which may be why I get so much new info each time.

The end result is that nothing gets out the door. I know that at some point you're supposed to say "Enough!" but I really do get some great crits from people I trust. And once I know a way to improve my story, I feel I would be doing myself a disservice to not fix it before I put it in the mail.

So, because this has even sabotaged my WOTF entries two times in a row now, I'm thinking the solution <gasp> is to stop asking for crits. Yet, because I learn things from crits, I fear I will always wonder what I could have done to make a good story into a great story that I missed out on from not getting crits. So I'm kind of torn and yes, angsty, about this.


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Beth
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autumn, from what I know about you, you're a worrier and a perfectionist, and it's difficult for you to let stuff go. I suspect that's more at play here than anything about the story's readiness per se.

Perhaps setting an arbitrary number of revisions would help - because it is arbitrary and external, your own issues do not come into play. Maybe after the 3rd round you just decide you've given the story as much energy as you're willing to and send it out.


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luapc
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I think this is just part of the learning process of becoming a better writer. The better you get at writing, the less satisfied you're likely to be with your own work. I know that's the case for me as I progress, but I try to fight the urge to constantly improve my stories beyond a certain point. Sooner or later you just have to take the plunge and send things out, whether you think the stories are perfect or not.

Beth makes some good suggestions along that line. I think that if you start forcing yourself to submit and set guidlines for yourself, even as painful as it might be, you will become more comfortable with submitting what is, in your mind, an imperfect story. After all, no story is ever perfect for everyone. The most you can hope for is that most readers enjoy it.

Another thing I would suggest is to never miss a self imposed deadline, no matter how bad you think a story is. This is especially true about a contest like WOTF. Being rejected there doesn't mean a thing, since the judges aren't supposed to know who wrote a story unless you win, or they do a critique on it. For WOTF entries, there is absolutely no risk, so you should always force yourself to send an entry every quarter, even if you think the story won't win. Forcing yourself to submit will make it easier over time to accept the imperfections in a story.

[This message has been edited by luapc (edited April 20, 2006).]


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pjp
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autumnmuse:

I'd recommend taking whatever "finished" draft you have and submit it to WOTF or whatever other contest you're interested in by the deadline. Leave the submitted draft alone (except for maybe separate ideas in another document, or on a printed copy of the draft) and wait for WOTF/contest response. Meanwhile, work on something else.

If you get a rejection from WOTF/contest, go back to the draft, and incorporate the new fixes/changes. Submit it somewhere else, repeat.


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tchernabyelo
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My current process tends to go as follows:
Write the story.
Get it critted.
Give it a rewrite or polish, depending on the level of attention needed.
Get another round of crits to confirm that I've taken the right approach. Final polish, then ready for submission.

Ultimately, you have to have faith in your story, and you have to remember that YOU are the author. It isn't a matter of writing by committee. Some people won't like it your way and would do it differently themselves, but ultimately you have to be able to reject crits as well as accept them.

Editors are probably going to want you to rewrite anyway (to at least some extent), so why do it more than once before it gets to one?


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ChrisOwens
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Wow. That's exactly what happened to me the last two quarter. Process crits. Revise. Process crits. Revise. The story loosing its luster with revision. But next time I'll head the advice, send to WOTF anyway. Look out Q3!
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hoptoad
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Unlike working for an organisation there is no approval process, if you don't devise one for yourself you get the heeby-jeebies. So limit your critiques. Devise a process you are happy with. (This may seem impractical in your eyes or you may finally add savant to my appellation )

For instance : only take certain number of critiques. Once you've assessed the feedback and the adjustments are done, send out a second round for review to the same group. Avoid adding new critics. This time target your requests, ask them only for comments on specific things rather than 'whole content'. You may decide that you want comments from them ONLY on the adjustments you made according to their initial comments. In other words, ask specific questions. Once these final comments are received and relevent comments implemented, consider the piece approved.

I wish I could slip in a graphic here, but I can't so I will try to explain.

The critical process could be represented as a triangle, with the base being wide and taking in as much as you want, but as you progess and ask for subsequent critiques the focus should narrow taking you toward a finer and finer point until it reaches the 'effective vs perfective' threshhold were you say enough -- its done.

HOWEVER, many people approach the process in the opposite way. They turn the triangle on its head starting with a relatively narrow focus and allow the process to progress toward an expanding horizon. Focus should always narrow as you progress. If it broadens then the process becomes constipated — chock-full, painful, a little desperate and in the end bearing only... shall we say meagre results.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited April 20, 2006).]


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Spaceman
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Here's my take on your little spider-hole.

1) Write, post for critique, and work on something new.

2) Finish and post the new one for critique and go revise the old one, then ship it.

3) Start something new and repeat step 2.

Also, you might consider stepping away from the flash challenges for a while, they have you in a rut.


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rcorporon
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You have to accept the fact that no story will ever be perfect, and crits will ALWAYS find something that they think needs to be fixed.

Remember what Leonardo said:

Art is never finished, it's abandoned.


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djvdakota
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I've recently discovered something new that might be of use to you as well (though it hasn't been tested to fruition, ie. publication, but I'm working on that).

My process used to be quite similar to yours. Now it's:

1. Write, slowly, think, ponder, write some more, think, take it easy, put out a first draft that's close to what you want it to be, one that you feel might be nearly ready to send. It makes it easier both on you and your critiquers. The critiques are less overwhelming, IMO, for both.

(I've come to be a non-believer in the 'just write it and get it out of your system' kind of writing, but that's a personal thing, maybe)

2. Send it out for general critiques, like at Hatrack.

3. Revise based on the stuff from the critiques that felt right.

4. Send it back out, on a request-only basis, to a few trusted people to see how you did no the revision. These can be totally new people who did not read the first draft, or they might be one or two people whose critiques were particularly helpful or sensical, or both (the latter being my vote). Unfortunately I've only been able to try this method out once, but I liked it. Waiting to see the results. *Crossing fingers*

(And for those of you who are pouting because I didn't ask you, it all happened quite by accident, and if I ever get another story ready for critique I'll be picking your much-revered brains)


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Robert Nowall
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I've never written a novel the same way twice...I've gone from extensive note-making and a single-draft chapter-a-day done in a week, to meandering pointlessly over the course of several years and shaking out half the rough draft when I reached some kind of an end.

Short stories have varied less, with longer arcs affecting a greater number of stories. Right now I write something, sit on it for several months, then rewrite and retype it again from top to bottom, and then either send it out or sit on it again. I've got three complete stories somewhere in my files waiting for me to take another crack at them. (I hope to get to one of them, or something else, real soon...it's been a month and a half devoid of writing above the level of these posts.)

Late as two years ago (my oft-mentioned "Internet Fan Fiction" period), I was writing differently...writing drafts, pasting the draft in another file and revising that, then sending that out.

So my point is...what was my point? Oh, yeah, yeah. You can revise and revise, or just make one draft and send it out. But sooner or later, with any great work of art, you must be prepared to abandon it and move on to the next piece...


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Kolona
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From one perfectionist to another, I feel your pain. But don't go from one extreme to the other and stop asking for crits. You've already determined that your methods are out of balance, don't throw yourself out of kilter the other way. Strive for some middle ground as some of the responses here have suggested, maybe a three crits and you're off rule for manuscripts.
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Survivor
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If the problem is that you're not submitting anything, then the only solution is to submit things. Just set a deadline for yourself (or follow the deadline established by someone else, like for a contest or a themed issue or whatever).

You don't have to stop asking for crits and trying to improve unless you sell the story. Even if you do sell it, it's often not too late to offer a few revisions and let the buyer decide if they work.


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