Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » 0 to unconscious in 60 seconds (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: 0 to unconscious in 60 seconds
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
In the movies it is common to see people banged on the head who fall into unconsciousness, (or being pinched in some nerve), but wake up without any permanent or even temporary damage. What I need is a believable, realistic, actual way of knocking a person out in one blow without causing them any irrepairable harm or amnesia.
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pantros
Member
Member # 3237

 - posted      Profile for pantros   Email pantros         Edit/Delete Post 
A hit to the back of the head can do exactly that.

In my younger days, when I wasn't always as nice as I am now, I've been on both ends of this.


Posts: 370 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
Is there a precise place? Can anyone explain to me medically (albeit vaguely) why this could happen?
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Leigh
Member
Member # 2901

 - posted      Profile for Leigh   Email Leigh         Edit/Delete Post 
Never did biology, so I never learned the right names but here it goes:

Run your hand up your neck feeling your vertebrate, then you should be able to feel the base of your skull. That's the place where I got hit when I was 13, I woke up with a concussion, mild one at that after I was knocked out.

So I believe that's where your place is.

EDIT: Spelt a simple word wrong.

[This message has been edited by Leigh (edited August 17, 2006).]


Posts: 384 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pantros
Member
Member # 3237

 - posted      Profile for pantros   Email pantros         Edit/Delete Post 
Anywhere near where the neck meets the skull seemed to work. Top of the head, not so much. Right behind the ear seems to do the job.

Posts: 370 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wetwilly
Member
Member # 1818

 - posted      Profile for wetwilly   Email wetwilly         Edit/Delete Post 
The forehead can also do it, but it will probably leave a pretty nasty bruise. I know from painful experience. The temple can do it, too, also from painful experience. Back of the head, I don't have any experience with that.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wbriggs
Member
Member # 2267

 - posted      Profile for wbriggs   Email wbriggs         Edit/Delete Post 
Professional on a closed course. Do not attempt.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dead_Poet
Member
Member # 3542

 - posted      Profile for Dead_Poet           Edit/Delete Post 
Be careful with the temple shots though, that could kill someone.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
Seems to me like the point at the top of the neck and the base of the skull is really more of a neck location than a head location. I had written that "he hit him in the back of the neck with the hilt of the dagger and knocked him out cold" or something to that effect and my reader raised the question. That's why I posted it here. Does it reader more oddly to say the neck instead of the ehad, even though the nerve you're talking about seems, to me, to be more in the neck than the head?
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
I read somewhere of a study that suggested those who've had head injuries or concussions are significantly more likely to develop Alzheimer's Syndrome. So the damage inflicted might not be apparent for decades.
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thexmedic
Member
Member # 2844

 - posted      Profile for thexmedic   Email thexmedic         Edit/Delete Post 
In high school I was knocked out twice, by accident, by the same kid. Seriously.

Once was for about 10 seconds in a game of field hockey. The guy took a golf swing and connected just above my right elbow. I was in significant pain when I came round and I still have a tiny dent above that eye.

The second time, he decided to kill a tiny fly with his cricket bat. A fly, as you may have guessed, does not have much stopping power. He swung through and connected with my chin. Next thing I knew I was on the ground. I found out five years later that I'd been out for about 30 seconds and they'd all been pooping themselves. Hardly any pain and no real side effects.

Have no idea why that's the case, but maybe it helps in an anecdotal way

(If it makes anyone feel better, I scarred the kid for life by accidentally putting the corner of a lazerquest gun through his upper lip.)


Posts: 205 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SimonMRhees
Member
Member # 2777

 - posted      Profile for SimonMRhees   Email SimonMRhees         Edit/Delete Post 
It's from some website aimed at parents, so it's a little schmatzly, but it's pertinent.

http://kidshealth.org/kid/ill_injure/aches/concussion.html

This one's a little more specific.

http://www.ahs.uwaterloo.ca/~cahr/headfall.html

And maybe one more, just for fun:

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/articles/scni18a2.htm

I don't know that it's really possible to knock someone out without causing a little bit of brain damage. I mean, that's how they get knocked out. I guess you're really asking WHERE to hit someone, and I don't know the answer to that question. Like stated above, the temple can be deadly. The object of impact will also affect it. Say, a fist to the head, versus a hammer. A punch will just jostle the jiggly bits, while a hammer, well, it'll jostle and crunch. Not so sure about a dagger handle, but I would imagine it could produce either effect, depending on how hard it was swung.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TMan1969
Member
Member # 3552

 - posted      Profile for TMan1969   Email TMan1969         Edit/Delete Post 
When I lived in Woodstock (not the famous one), I had a friend who never played baseball. To help him we made him the pitcher (slo-pitch) and every time he pitched, he would look away - and bend over. So, after pitrching he turned away and once he heard the sound of the bat hitting the ball - he stood up. The ball smacked him on the back his head and down he went..as far as know there was no significant damage - even when he knocked himself out running into a large metallic historical sign.

I played football and one of our running backs thought he would emulate one of his fav's. He deflated some air out his helmet and subsequently got into a head to head tackle. The result was a 2nd degree concussion, loss of memory and regression to child like state. He could not see anything out of right eye for about a day...


Posts: 287 | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rcorporon
Member
Member # 2879

 - posted      Profile for rcorporon   Email rcorporon         Edit/Delete Post 
In "Red Dragon" a lady gets knocked out when hit with a blackjack (Harris uses the verb "tapped") behind her ear. The police later claim that she just needed a few stitches to fix a minor cut.

She drops to the floor, and I was convinced as a reader that it was plausible.

[This message has been edited by rcorporon (edited August 18, 2006).]


Posts: 450 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
There is no way to do this "reliably" with a single blow. Every human has a different tolerance for applied force to the neck and skull, and the threshhold for knocking one person out might be higher than the threshhold of permanent or fatal injury for another person.

Do not attempt to knock someone unconscious with a single blow unless you are willing to risk having that person remain conscious and pissed or risk killing said person.

If you must knock someone unconscious but do not want to take a significant risk of killing, then you should use a cloth soaked in ether or something. This still takes skill, but it is possible to monitor the vitals and consciousness of your target, so it can be reliable in the right hands. A blow, no matter how it is delivered, cannot accomplish this.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sasunnach9
New Member
Member # 3146

 - posted      Profile for sasunnach9           Edit/Delete Post 
Based on what I know about anatomy, here's what I've got:

Hitting too hard on the back of the head may cause blindness; the vision center of the brain is in back, in the occipital area. That indentation you can feel as you run your fingers up your neck, to the base of the skull, is where your spinal cord enters the brain (obviously), so being struck there too hard can paralyze or kill.

Striking someone "behind the ear" can kill as well; it's the mastoid process, and is very sensitive. Press on yours a bit, and you can feel it.

The skull under one's forehead is the strongest part of the whole structure, which makes sense really, being the part of the skull that may slam into things accidentally (like when swinging through trees?) Maybe that's why a good portion of "higher" thinking resides in the frontal lobes underneath, I don't know.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I'd want to be struck into unconsciousness via any portion of my brain. I often wonder how in some TV shows, when one of the main characters gets knocked out on a regular basis, he or she doesn't develop permanent brain damage.

"Better to have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy." -- WC Fields


Posts: 3 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
What Survivor said. A blow to the head might not knock someone out. It might kill them. Or it might stun them a moment before they turn to kill you.

I suppose that's what made the "set your phasers on stun" from Star Trek so useful a plot device. They'd be reliable. (I suppose the Vulcan Neck Pinch would be, too.)


Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
If you want to do the Vulcan neck pinch, then go for the nerve centers near the collar with your thumb and index finger while applying pressure to both of the carotid arteries and applying firm but gentle pressure to the wind-pipe to paralyze the vocal cords. Unconsciousness should occur within three to five seconds.

It helps if you're as strong and dextrous as a Vulcan, at least compared to your target. You should practice on someone you're not afraid of killing or badly injuring, because it's easy to screw up and crush the wind-pipe, break the collarbone, or cause brain damage. I'd just go with a head-butt myself, but I can't see many situations where I'd want to knock someone out without taking any risk of killing.

A good stun weapon will definitely incapacitate with minimal risk of killing. That assumes that you have such a device on you. But currently available models stun, they don't necessarily produce unconsciousness or memory loss. Just in case that's important.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
I think a blow to the head would be overlooked. But I am seriously considering a slight re-write in favor of the cloth drenched in ether (type of approach), it says volumes about the "attacking" character's intent/professionalism.

Thanks all!


Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cvgurau
Member
Member # 1345

 - posted      Profile for cvgurau   Email cvgurau         Edit/Delete Post 
There's a spot on the jaw called the Sweet Spot, where, if hit with the right amount of force (which, for this, is much less than a blow to the back of the head, or so I would imagine), it knocks a person right out, and usually without much damage. I've been on the receiving end of one of these (and I've seen a few, as well), and the only damage I sustained was from twisting my ankle when I fell.

And hey! No brain damage! Win-win, isn't it?


Posts: 552 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
I'd put what "cvgurau" said right up there with the one about being able to drive the nose bone back into the skull with just the right shot...a spot not quite as sweet as one might believe, and (if it exists at all) too difficult for the Average Joe to master...
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
As I said, the threshhold for knocking someone out can differ a lot from one person to another. cvgurau should avoid a career as a boxer. Some individual humans have such a "Sweet Spot", many do not. Just like some individuals can be rendered unconscious by the sight of blood, but I wouldn't count on it as a way to reliably knock out most people.

Some people can be killed by driving their septum into their frontal lobe...okay, that would kill anyone. But not all humans have a septum that could be disloged intact and driven back into the brain with a single blow from a normal human. Just like you can kill anyone by breaking their neck, but that's easier said than done.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thexmedic
Member
Member # 2844

 - posted      Profile for thexmedic   Email thexmedic         Edit/Delete Post 
I must have a sweet spot! How exciting.

Also, anyone else worried about how much Survivor knows about this topic?


Posts: 205 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, we all have our specialties...me, I've picked up the most unusual variety of knowledge categories over the years, and though I yield to true experts I still have enormous amounts of worthless trivia to hand. (None of which seems to have any bearing on my writing, unless you count what I learned while writing Internet Fan Fiction.)

Unfortunately, self-defense is not one of them...I know a little, but probably not enough to actually do it...


Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JamieFord
Member
Member # 3112

 - posted      Profile for JamieFord   Email JamieFord         Edit/Delete Post 
Go for the jaw:

"...the carotid baroceptors (the things that control blood pressure) are located right below the angle of the jaw. Hitting one of them will cause paroxysms of the heart and could lead to rapid unconsciousness or fibrillation."

Some people have tougher jaws. Some have the proverbial "glass jaw"--one good punch and they're out.

But keep in mind, some people get knocked out cold, while other recover within seconds.

Have fun, don't try this at home kids.


Posts: 603 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
I've had a number of bad work related accidents.

1: I was whacked in the face with an iron bar that snapped the septum leaving it floating free, it also opened the nasal cavity so that blood bubbled from a hole near where the nose meets the brow. It did not kill nor knock me out but left me black-eyed and bandaged. (This was the state I was in when I met my wife... hmmm).

2: Another was a severe whack on the forehead when I collided at speed with a basement mooring. The most disturbing thing was that I could not control my eyes, they were shuddering. It was awful. I was totally useless but never lost consciousness.

PS: A friend of mine used to wear his baseball cap under his hard-hat... I don't know why. Anyway, one day a plank fell and hit him on the head, not very hard but a definite whack. Soon blood started pouring out from under his hard-hat. The blow had caused the metal button on the top of the cap to pierce his scalp in a perfect crescent. It was cool.

PPS: I did not contribute much to the discussion but it certainly was cathartic... thanks

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited August 21, 2006).]


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jammrock
Member
Member # 3293

 - posted      Profile for Jammrock   Email Jammrock         Edit/Delete Post 
Anything that causes a sudden, traumatic jarring of the head can knock someone out. That's how boxing works. Eventually the brain literally bounces against the skull and motor skills are lost. Pistol whipping, or a dagger butt, can do it because the point of impact is very small and very hard, so the force of the impact can cause a more dramatic shift in head movement (won't go into the physics, but that's how it works...roughly).

Think of boxing again. The big fat gloves prolong the fight because the surface area of the impact is spread out and cushioned. In the old bare knuckle days a bout rarely lasted more than 3-4 rounds, and usually ended by the first two, because the surface area of the impact was smaller so the damage was more localized and there was less cushion. Now think of a pistol or dagger butt. Relatively same amount of force, but applied in the right place can cause a greater jarring of the brain to render subject unconscious much easier than a fist.

Knocking someone out in this way is called a concussion. These are commonly caused by blows to the side of the head. The temples are the main weak point, followed by the side of te skull's peak and just above the temples.

The junction between the top most vertebrae and skull are a weak point on the human body so hitting someone there will cause it as well. There are also major nerves there that when pinched will do the job. That also makes it a very dangerous place to hit, and could easily paralyse of kill someone if too much force is applied.

Another is an upper cut under the jaw (this is why you see boxers with vicious uppercuts win so much). There is a nerve weakpoint above the jawbone that can temporarily stop motor function.

The nose and temples are other weak spots. The temples are the softest place on the skull, and the nose is just weak.

Any overload to the nervous system will cause unconsciousness as well, though more difficult to do. Thus a sufficiently hard kick to the male genitalia can render man unconscious.

I'm sure there are more nervous weakpoints that experts know, but those are the basics.

Jammrock


Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Sensory overload is a good one. It has minimal risk of lethal injury, but it's very difficult to do with any single blow. A secondary insult to a tramatic injury (like a severe burn or gunshot) often works. About boxing, bare knuckle fights don't tend to end in actual knockouts. It's harder to strike a full force blow against the head with your bare knuckles. Those fights tend to end because of body blows. Because the padding of the glove makes body blows far less bruising, it's easy to simply use muscle tension to deflect the force of even a heavy blow. One or two hits will tire you badly, but they don't do the kind of impact damage a bare fist would do. But if you want to hit someone in the head with your bare hand, use the heel or palm rather than your knuckles.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
What about rear naked choke holds? Would they be quiet enough?
Like hadaka jime. I guess they would be just as quiet as chloroform... ( )

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited August 22, 2006).]


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
Or perhaps a little device you press against the brachial plexus that gives a sudden electrical burst to the nervous system. Like a specialised taser...
Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jammrock
Member
Member # 3293

 - posted      Profile for Jammrock   Email Jammrock         Edit/Delete Post 
Choke holds can do it, but unless you properly close th vocal chords they could raise alarm. You'd also have to be very careful because people can fight back while in a choke hold, thus cause a racket enough for people to come to assist. And remember with choke holds that they take longer than what you see on TV. 1-3 minutes if the person doesn't fight back a lot, if they thrash a lot less than a minute, depending on how physically fit they are.


Other knock out blows, if you can catch someone off guard, is under the ribs cage. A strong enough hit will push up the diaphram and shoot all the air out of the lungs, rendering the opponent temporarily unable to respond to attack.

@Survivor: A lot of that depends on weight and strength advantage. If a 300 pounder who is more muscle than fat lays a heavy blow on a 150-200 pounder, it's not going to matter how much muscle tension they can muster, they're going to take damage and possibly go down.

Secondly, bare knuckle fighters don't hit the thick parts of the skull. They aim for the weak points, such as the jawbone, mouth, nose, side of the face (knuckles connect on the cheeckbone), and ear, where a bare knuckle punch can inflict serious damage. All head blows, if land correctly, are done with the pointer and middle finger knuckles doing the majority of the damage. Those knuckles are a strong point on the hand, have a small surface area and provide little padding for the blow, thus inflict the maximum damage to the opponent while causing relatively small damage to the attacker.


Aren't conversations like this fun


Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Ditto on choke holds. Someone with strong neck muscles can stay conscious and fighting for a couple of minutes, and with both your arms busy and your legs in the wrong position to do much of anything, you could regret it. On the other hand, many choke holds that offer enough force and control to be effective can accidentally result in death or serious injury.

I have to reiterate the points about boxing. A three hundred pound fighter wearing gloves might well be able to knock a smaller opponent across the room with a body blow, but the actual damage will not be what it could have been without gloves. On the other hand, that same blow delivered against the head will be far more effective with gloves. The relative strength of your knuckles to the target's "weak points" on the head is a huge variable, a bigger variable than relative body mass. It's also a lot more difficult to gauge accurately prior to attempting a blow. Smart bare knuckle fighters don't aim for the head at all, the hard impacts you can deliver with your knuckles are far more effective against softer and more accessible targets on the body. Aiming blows at the head is only advantageous when you're wearing gloves or using a weapon.

This has become a concern in recent years, since it has become apparent that boxing gloves--originally introduced with the idea of making fights safer--dramatically increase the risk of long-term brain damage from even a single bout. More (and far harder) blows to the head, fewer fights decided by injury to the arms and chest, a much greater reliance on knock-outs. All play their part, and all are a direct result of using gloves. If you have the opportunity to get into a fight, try to insist on a bare-knuckle fight. And don't aim for the head except with the heel or palm of your hand. I'd restrict head blows to kicking, myself. But that's a different matter.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
J
Member
Member # 2197

 - posted      Profile for J   Email J         Edit/Delete Post 
Don't go for the jaw. A solid hook to the jaw will cause knockout, but it's more likely than not to cause serious damage as well(e.g., in order of decreasing seriousness, broken jaw, dislocated jaw, torn or strained muscles, severed tongue, lost teeth, lacerated lips/cheeks, bruising). That's why professional boxers disdain headgear but will not (cannot) fight or spar without a mouthpiece. The #1 job of that mouthpiece is to keep your jaw in one piece and in the right place (protecting your teeth and lips is important but secondary). A clean punch to the jaw by a man of reasonable strength will at the very least spray some teeth onto the floor.

I boxed at Notre Dame; we studied the causes of knock-out a bit (so as to more reliably cause them). Blows--especially a punch to the jaw--cause unconciousness by forcing the skull to rotate faster than the brain. The brain slams into the wall of the skull, and then it's nighty-night time.

Survivor is right about the gloves, too. They make fights more brutal, not less. And a couple of exceptionally heavy hitters I know used to pack eggcrate foam in their gloves to keep from breaking their hands. There just isn't any way to hit someone in the head without hurting yourself. Strikes to the nose and mouth might leave you with skinned knuckles if you're lucky; solid strikes anywhere else are likely to leave you with a fracture. Sometimes the injuries can be worse (I once saw a guy hit another guy in the face at a party. The victim was knocked out cold. The aggressor had three broken bones and four of the victim's teeth stuck inside of his hand--one of which severed a tendon).

[This message has been edited by J (edited August 24, 2006).]


Posts: 683 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Every time you tell that story it gives me the willies
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
J
Member
Member # 2197

 - posted      Profile for J   Email J         Edit/Delete Post 
It was messy. I was very glad not to be involved.
Posts: 683 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
It reminds me of that Far Side where the saurian-type alien with the crappy disguise is saying "Why, yes...I would like...a 'knuckle sandwich'."
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sara Genge
Member
Member # 3468

 - posted      Profile for Sara Genge   Email Sara Genge         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know anything about knocking people out.. but, whatever you do, if your MC gets medical attention, please make sure the doctor is competent. It seems to me that if you need that character for the rest of the story, you'd have to patch him up a bit.
Posts: 507 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MollieBryn
Member
Member # 3728

 - posted      Profile for MollieBryn   Email MollieBryn         Edit/Delete Post 
Or, don't patch him up and let him stagger around in pain for the rest of the story. That could be fun, especially if you want to make other characters uncomfortable:

"What are you staring at?" Hideously Disfigured Character snapped.

"N-nothing," the bellhop stammered. "But...but, sir, your eye..."

"What about my eye?" HDC snarled.

"It's...it's sliding down your cheek, sir. And I think you lost your big toe in our lobby."

Nothing says SC discomfort like a disfigured MC with a chip on his shoulder! Sorry, I have a very strange mind. Eventually I suppose I'll need to check into that.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayne
Member
Member # 3675

 - posted      Profile for Wayne   Email Wayne         Edit/Delete Post 
You go, girl! I'm with Mollie on this.

Zero, I like the rag with ether - or some more modern anastheic(sp).

BTW, why don't the airbags ever deploy in movies where the car keeps going and going and going crash after crash after crash?

[This message has been edited by Wayne (edited August 26, 2006).]


Posts: 98 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sojoyful
Member
Member # 2997

 - posted      Profile for sojoyful   Email sojoyful         Edit/Delete Post 
Because the stunt cars aren't fitted with them.


Posts: 470 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sholar
Member
Member # 3280

 - posted      Profile for sholar   Email sholar         Edit/Delete Post 
"BTW, why don't the airbags ever deploy in movies where the car keeps going and going and going crash after crash after crash?"

We watched this car chase on tv (normally not my thing, but part of it went right by my house and after seeeing them all speed by me, I wanted to know how it ended) and the guy really abused his car. While we were watching, he hit 2 cars and the news said he had already hit several before. Eventually (after the car tires were blown out and he rammed another car) he drove off the freeway, not realizing that the ravine was full of water and then finally got stuck. Airbag never deployed. How the car was still moving at that point was a mystery to us, but it was real- no effects.


Posts: 303 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Valtam2
Member
Member # 3174

 - posted      Profile for Valtam2   Email Valtam2         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
In the old bare knuckle days a bout rarely lasted more than 3-4 rounds, and usually ended by the first two, because the surface area of the impact was smaller so the damage was more localized and there was less cushion.

Not completely true. It wasn't strange to see fights ranging from sixty to one hundred rounds in bare knuckle boxing's height. John L. Sullivan himself had fights lasting into the 75th round. They pretty much fought until they couldn't move. I doubt they aimed for the head much, since doing so would likely cause you to break or otherwise injure your hand in a bare knuckle fight, which would severely hamper your ability to continue beating your opponent savagely.


Posts: 50 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, those were your more skilled boxers, who would hit each other in the shoulders and chest as much as possible while guarding a lot. That kind of attrition strategy was a great way to outlast an inexperienced or weak fighter, but it could go on a really long time if the opponents were both cautious and well matched. Most bare-knuckle fights would end pretty quickly.

A similar principle was behind the invention of modern fencing. When you deal with bladed weapons, caution and finesse beat raw power pretty consistently. If the popular method of dueling involved clubs, fencing would be a very different sport.

As for airbags, they can fail to deploy for a lot of different reasons.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Leila
New Member
Member # 3758

 - posted      Profile for Leila           Edit/Delete Post 
Hello, I just joined the forum and found this discussion very interesting. To the original question posted by Zero:

"What I need is a believable, realistic, actual way of knocking a person out in one blow without causing them any irrepairable harm or amnesia"

There were several comments about using a rag with ether, chloroform or a more modern anesthetic, and it seems to me that Zero liked the idea. Without adequate experience in boxing or martial arts, in my humble opinion, using an anesthetic agent is actually the best truly reliable way of making someone unconscious. However, as far as "irrepairable harm or amnesia" goes, there are no guarantees.

Anyway, Zero, if you are thinking of going with something like this, in order to make it believable you'll have to create a situation for your character where he/she is capable of obtaining the ether or chloroform in the first place. (Since they're not sold at most pharmacies. As for more modern anesthetics, some of the newer ones evaporate too quickly to be reliable on a rag.

Good luck with your story!


Posts: 4 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
If you're skilled you can put someone down without any significant risk of doing major injury. It also depends a bit on the type of anesthetic you use, ether isn't dangerously toxic like some other gases, but it is highly flammable. Don't try the ether soaked cloth on someone who's smoking, cause that will probably kill or maim. You won't get off lightly either.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
J
Member
Member # 2197

 - posted      Profile for J   Email J         Edit/Delete Post 
Bumbling wanna-be hitman slaps an ether-soaked rag onto the burning end of the intended victim's cigarette. Hilarity ensues.
Posts: 683 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
horse tranquiliser dart

I don't understand why someone with a rag pressed to their face wouldn't thrash and make a racket.


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
especially if they were some sort of 'guard' or 'guardian'
Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
what if they were wearing a helmet of some kind, like lots of scifi uber-soldiers do?
Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
last one... i promise.

The technique is of certain importance, of equal importance, however, is the attacker 's mindset. He has to attack without reservation and with extreme aggression. To do otherwise, or with hesitation, is to risk failing.

May seem obvious.

Like others have mentioned, there are no guarantees in such situations. However there are opportunities that you either recognise or you don't, that you have the skills to exploit or you don't. The skills and mindset of the attacker are what determines 'how' a situation like this is 'allowed' to develop.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited August 28, 2006).]


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2