posted
Yeah, it sounds like a stupid question, but I've seen a whole bunch of agencies' spiels on how they want to be involved in the whole process and what not. So does that mean that if you have the book mostly worked out, or just have one in a series written, they would be interested in working with you until it's ready to print?
What exactly is the job/purpose of an agent? It has been my understanding that they are there to sell the books, I didn't realize that they had more to do with it. Or do they?
posted
The only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked. Or so I've heard, and believe.
Yes, I think you should have it done. What are you going to tell him or her when they ask for a full?
Would they have the patience to wait for you finish? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
An agent can shop your MS to many editors at different publishers at the same time. Their interactions with the various editors, knowning what perhaps one is looking for, is just another way to elevate your effort to a higher position within the massive slush piles sitting around their offices.
Also too, they will help in ironing out any differences of opinions within that publishing contract when you get it.
You need to read some of the agents blogs on the web, as well as check out Preditors and Editors and Writer's Beware to learn what sort of scams are out there, and there are many!
Remember this, money flows to the author, not the other way around!
[This message has been edited by mommiller (edited March 07, 2007).]
[This message has been edited by mommiller (edited March 07, 2007).]
posted
I'm no expert on this, but I think in general it's better to have something closer to the finished property to hand around (revisions pending or not).
If you've progressed enough in your career to have a few sales under your belt, then maybe you can toss half a novel out for an agent to start handling.
But if you're just starting out, and you send a partial something off, to agents or publishers, if they ask to see more, you can mail it to them immediately rather than taking months to write it.
Fiction - your book must be completed before you query.
NonFiction - you generally have not started writing yet. It is normal to send the proposal before the book is written. Check your potential agent's submission guidelines.
posted
I write short stories only to give to my friends to read and pass on. I do it that way so one day their will be people who would want to read something by me. I am not a fan of publishing short stories. I see little point I gust write them and print them out and pass them around, pick up suggestions and move on. I could care less about publishers and agents etc. I don’t like the idea. Maybe because of me paranoia of sending in a story and playing the waiting game only to be denied and start over. My way works for me so one day I could publish. Rommel Fenrir Wolf II Posts: 856 | Registered: Nov 2006
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I guess I should have explained my question a little better. I am writing a book that has already become a two-parter. I really want to see if it's publishable, because it's taken me so long to do the first one, and I want to know if it's even worth writing the second book.
The first has an ending, and is workable as a single book. The second is simply a continuation of the first with a slight shifting of the focus of the story, and a surprise ending.
[This message has been edited by MommaMuse (edited March 14, 2007).]
posted
How long did it take you? Would you be able to write the second one faster if you had a good reason (like, say, a contract?) I ask because, if you do get a taker on the first one, the publisher may well want a multi-book contract--especially if they know more are in the works. Just something to think about.
But regarding your actual question: it sounds like you do have a finished book. If you need to edit it, do that before sending to an agent (or anywhere else). But when you think it's all ready, then market it; don't wait to have the second book (or the entire series, if you plan more) finished first. You would probably want to mention, in fact, that you're working on a sequel (but also stress that the first book is a standalone).
Jacquelyn Mitchard had less than a hundred pages of her first novel written when Viking offered her a half-million dollars for it as part of a two book deal. She took it. She also accepted $3,000,000 for a movie to star Michelle Pfeiffer, and Peter Gruber had out bid Ron Howard in his option offer.
What was Mitchford before lightning struck? A freelance reporter who "wrote anything for anybody to pay the bills"
Your probably familier with her best seller, The Deep End of the Ocean.
posted
RF, My first book needs a chapter or two finished, but yeah, it's pretty much done. I've spent about two years on this project, but have only been really working on it since July 2006. I dont know how long it would take me to write the second book, contract or no, and that's why I wasn't sure if I should go ahead with marketing the first one. Your advice sounds pretty solid to me, though. Thanks!
Tracy, That success story is VERY encouraging! I just wish I had a little prior puslishing experience like she did! LOL
posted
What if it is a series of 2+ books. And the first is finished but the following books are not?
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Market the first book first. Don't worry if your trilogy isn't finished. An agent can shop the first book to a publisher and tell them that it's the first of a proposed trilogy. They'll buy the first and wait for you to finish the rest (as long as you can do it in a timely fashion-you can negotiate with the publisher what 'timely' means). I'm writing a book that's the first of five. After I finish it I'm going to write a book completely unrelated that could have sequels. After that I'm planning another book that would probably have sequels. I won't write any sequel, however, until I have a book deal. It's a waste of time to write a sequel to a book that hasn't been sold. You can't shop a sequel without the first book being sold. You can, however, shop an entirely unrelated book.
posted
I'm shopping my first novel (not the first I've ever written, but the first I felt was worthy of publishing) around now, and the second in the series (or trilogy? Probably a trilogy) is pretty much complete in first draft form. If I tried to write a different novel now, I'd be pulled too far out of the world I've created to get back into it easily. For me, novels require great concentration and total immersion in that world - I can stop for brief periods to write ficlets if I want to just "rest" a bit, but a novel? Nope, I can't see me being able to do that. I had to write the second novel to get the story out of my system (and now the third one is starting to form in my mind. . .argh . . . with the second only in first-draft form). For an unpublished (in fiction, anyway) writer like me, doing the second book was necessary to prove I could do it, both to me and to prospective agents, I think. If you don't have that second one at least roughed out, how will they know you're not a "one-shot-wonder"? I'll keep working on the second and third book as I shop for agents/publishers, although I'm aware that they may want serious revisions. At least I'm getting the story written to MY satisfaction first, and at the moment, that's what's driving me (that and wanting to be published! )
As for the original question - if you are an unpublished, unknown author, how will they know you can complete a novel if you haven't done so? Seems logical to me that they'd want you to be shopping a finished work. That "success story" mentioned earlier was about someone who was an established writer, if not an established novelist, so I think agents would be more willing to believe she could finish a novel than someone without her credentials. (Nice story to dream about, though! Her own story might make a good movie! )
posted
From the discussions I've had with agents. Even if you expect it to be a series - Finish and query only the first book. The others can be WIPs but don't mention them in the queries.
The reason, or at least one of the reasons, for this is as follows:
For a "new" author seeking representation:
You need to sell the agent on the first book. When I ask why wouldn't you want to know that book 2 is in the can? Doesn't it show that book 1 wasn't a fluke? The response I get is just because you've written it doesn't mean its any good. When someone queries the entire series, the letter doesn't make it out of slush.
There's a website, I forget which now, that comparies query come ons to pick up lines. When you think of it that way, mentioning he other books is sort of like, "you should date me because I have a house, and two cool cars and this time share and my mom likes me."
An example/ exception/ war story: His Majesty's Dragon by Naomi Novik. Novik was a new writer doing the query rounds. Her agent fell in love with the characters and thought the audience would too. Ms. Novik hadn't mentioned any other WIPs in the query. So, the agent asked Ms. Novik if she'd thought of writing another related one. Ms. Novik had a second book - Throne of Jade finished. The agent sold it as a three book deal. All three books came out within a year.
Lightening strikes but focus on the book you want to sell.
Also check Evil Editor's "Face Lifts" - evileditor.net - and see what he does when someone mentions multiple books in the series in a query.
For an established author:
One of the agents I talked to has a client who FINISHES the next book in her series ever three months. The problem with being so far ahead of the editor and publisher is that often edits/ changes in the book going to press require changes in the next several. It means she spends a lot of time rewriting the stories.
Focus on landing an agent for Book 1. If you get someone interested you can always mention Book 2 further along in the process.
posted
I think if the only people who wrote stories did so with a seller's attitude; there would be a lot fewer good stories in the world, and a lot more depressed writers.
[This message has been edited by Zero (edited March 22, 2007).]
posted
Zero, if you spend all this time writing, you should have a desire to have your work published. It's okay if you don't care about the money, but don't you want to have an impact on the writing world? Don't you want to share your ideas and your talents with the world? If you don't, that's fine. It's less competition for me. Every one of you in this forum that sit on your works without trying to sell, who edit a million times, who give up, it makes it easier for me to sell my work. But I'm not selfish. Not only do I want to make a living selling books, I also want to have good books to read. If I worked really hard, I might be able to write and publish a book a year. But I read a lot more than one book in a year. And I want to read more than just my own words. I think that's why OSC works so hard to encourage others to write and improve and get published. He wants good books to read! So, sit on your works as long as you want, but you will never get published if you don't have a seller's attitude. And then I won't get to enjoy your work. And if you don't get rejected and force yourself to improve (how do you know if you're any good if you don't submit your work) you will never get published. We only have so long on this earth. If you want to contribute your words to literature, you have to get going.
posted
Zero, I agree you have to write for the sheer love of it. And, I think that you can wait until you've completed your entire story to market it. Part of the joy in being a writer to have the freedom to take it on your terms. Who can tell you when to start? No one.
However, it also valid to say you shouldn't avoid trying to sell it. If you're going to publish, though, you've got to get used to deadlines. I don't necessarily agree that you have to have a seller's mentality, just a Writer's.
I'd never advise anyone to be a sellout. Stand by your principles--give 'em hell--but do it for the right reasons. Just make sure that you aren't holding back for fear of rejection.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited March 22, 2007).]
posted
Ironically many of the great writers were or are, only marginally wealthy. Most who live on writing, live modestly. Those who become truly “wealthy” from writing become so from freaks of marketing. For example, I am not the least compelled by JK Rowling’s writing and in fact, in my opinion she did more than a little borrowing from Ursula Le Guin’s “Wizard of Earthsea,” and the world of Earthsea she created, including the college for young wizards. Le Guin’s way with words is extremely compelling, if you enjoy fine writing. Rowlings… well, its certainly easy to read and perhaps that’s part of the reason for its success. That having been said, if Ursula had Rowling’s money she could throw hers away. I mentioned “Deep end of the Ocean” earlier, another phenomenal success. Sometimes it’s just the right thing for the mood of the market at the right time.
OSC has stated publicly, several times, don’t do this for the money, it’s not worth it. Obviously, Card is what we would call a successful writer. But the writers who become incredibly wealthy, usually do so quite by accident and Rowling would be the first to admit it. There are a couple of writers who are brilliant at reading the market and come out with best seller after best seller which sell in very significant numbers, but only a couple. Essentially, it’s pretty difficult to make a living as a writer. The actual number of people who live just on writing in this country is depressingly low. Especially when compared to the much, much larger number being published. If an author makes $50,000 - $100,000 off a novel over a couple of years, he did pretty well in today’s market and those sort of numbers are quite common if you get your 15 minutes on the shelf.
I am beginning to suspect that if you want to become "wealthy" writing, you just have to write for the mass market. Pick a mass-market genre. Make your MC simple and easy to relate to like Harry Potter. Not meaningfully conflicted and dark like Le Guin’s, Sparrowhawk. Throw in some simple humor, use simple and easy to follow writing, a real easy page turner. Not intellectual sci-fi like Enders Game. 99.9% of the world’s readers would put Cards breakthrough book right back down again and be instantly attracted to a pretty spiderman cover across the aisle. Even something so completely brilliant and as visually compelling as Firefly/Serenity, series/movie meets with such disappointing returns it has to be cancelled and abandoned. Just wasn’t mass market enough.
I don’t know! If I did would I be wasting time writing this post. I see a lot of dreamers here. I’ve known a lot of dreamers over the years. I’ve seen many impressive artists who just can't get a break. Whether it’s musical or painting or writing… We all want to be successful but reality’s a bleeeeep.
Here’s to hoping you’re all smarter than Joss Whedon.
posted
I don't want to be rich. Scratch that, yes I do. But realistically, for me, "making it" would be $30,000 or so a year (about what I make now). I don't need to make more, I just need to do something that makes me happy. Writing does that for me. And if I want to "make it" I have to try to get sold. I want my book to get sold out without being a sell out
OSC talks about this in his SciFi book and in one of his Writing Lessons posts. He basically says "making it" as a writer depends on your definition. If I, say, have a wife who is willing to work while I write, then yes, I can stay at home and be a writer. If I have a large enough inheritance, yes, I can stay at home and be a writer.
For me, if I can make, on average, enough to live in a decent house and drive a decent car, then I have made it. And I think I have enough ideas and dedication to make it. Too many will get frustrated, or will sit on their one idea forever, and never get published. It's a shame, but all the better for me. So, if you ever want to be a professional, published writer, you have to get your work out there. Even if it gets rejected.
posted
I hate to sound like a prick. I don't mean to burst your bubble either. I was just talking on a larger scale here; I think that, for me personally, I can choose between a writer who writes for enjoyment, or a writer who is seriously depressed when he is not a phenomenal success and can't even sell a damned book. cheerio.
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote: I hate to sound like a prick. I don't mean to burst your bubble either. I was just talking on a larger scale here; I think that, for me personally, I can choose between a writer who writes for enjoyment, or a writer who is seriously depressed when he is not a phenomenal success and can't even sell a damned book. cheerio.
posted
This is getting a bit off topic, but on the hijacking topic of success.
The reason I'm doing this to begin with is because it's fun. No matter what happens, I will probably keep dabbling in it.
But aside from becoming stunningly wealthy, my hope is really just to get a modest second career going so that I might be able to get out of the 9-5 ratrace a few years early. Even that is probably an extraordinary reach for me, but what the heck. If I don't succeed, at least spending the majority of my free time indoors in front of a computer will lessen the likelihood I get skin cancer.
posted
Translation: "I didn't mean to criticize your motivations or what drives you to write. Only to comment on myself."
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote: The reason I'm doing this to begin with is because it's fun. No matter what happens, I will probably keep dabbling in it.
But aside from becoming stunningly wealthy, my hope is really just to get a modest second career going so that I might be able to get out of the 9-5 ratrace a few years early. Even that is probably an extraordinary reach for me, but what the heck. If I don't succeed, at least spending the majority of my free time indoors in front of a computer will lessen the likelihood I get skin cancer.
Ditto. You've got to do this because it's fun. First and foremost. I just hope people don't not (I know, terrible double-negative) submit their work or shop their stories because they fear rejection.
By the way, if you do fear rejection, you can always have someone else open your mail. That's one of the benefits of having an agent (if you can get one), they can hold back really negative rejections if you so choose. Or they can give it to you straight.
Personally, I just don't want to spend my whole life on one thing, like JRR Tolkien did. Most if not all of his writing centered on Middle-Earth. I would want to do more. I like the way OSC works. Sure, he's got a lot of Ender stuff, but he has also written other series and other stand-alone novels. I want to write a lot of different stuff.
posted
I agree. I would like to be able to write all sorts of stuff too. I would really like to develop one story in particular because I like the heebie-jeebies that I got from OSC's "Lost Boys," and it's the sort of cool feeling of wrongness that I would like to be able to impart in my own story. It's completely different from anything else I've done, and yet I really like it, but it's got to be completely rearranged. Except for the part where the MC (who is a ghost) is present when her own body is exhumed...heh heh heh...cool.
Posts: 105 | Registered: Aug 2006
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cheerio.
