posted
You know its funny but after 45 years of life, occasionally, the penny still drops on things you would think obvious, like the fact that neither cold nor dark actually exist.
I want to write a sci-fi story about a moon that is -559.67 °F or even -100 Kelvin. A moon that is so cold and so dark that all light is instantly absorbed by the intensely powerful darkness. Should I ????
Tracy
[This message has been edited by tnwilz (edited April 16, 2007).]
posted
The thing with science fiction is, it doesn't actually have to make sense. You can make up your facts, as long as there is some basis in reality, and you explain to us what is different than our own knowledge. Ever watched Star Trek? Some of those episodes (out of each of the series) went way off the deep end. I think there was an episode of ST: The Next Generation that dealt with light being absorbed by something. Can't remember the details.
Don't be afraid to go off the deep end, as long as you explain it.
posted
I reject the idea that cold and darkness don't exist. Why? Because they are perceptable. True they have no "substance," or whatever, absense of heat, absence of light, but they are still valid concepts and therefore still exist.
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posted
I'm definitely not getting your existential point (neither cold nor dark actually exist? Huh?) but - write whatever story floats your boat!
But, one suggestion, before you go too far. Figure out what interesting things happen in that environment you envision. So cold and so dark... I don't quite get how the moon would be so dark that there is no light...starlight even...but, hey - it's your story. Make up the rules, just tell us what they are so we'll believe that you're not just inventing while you go.
posted
With the temperatures you have, you are talking about something well below absolute zero. You have some knotty problems to work with here. Absolute zero has only been approached, never attained. Some feel that it can never be attained because molecular vibration would generate enough heat to prevent it. What is it that would drive something so far below absolute zero? Interesting idea, if you can work out the problems.
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posted
nitewriter - I haven't read anything on this, but from what you said, it would seem that to reach absolute zero, all motion on the atomic level would have to stop. Would matter colapse into nothing? Is there absolute zero in a black hole?
tnwilz - Over my 50+ years I have spent an inordinate time fantasizing about "dark bulbs". I like to picture a light bulb and a dark bulb in opposite ends of a room, with pulsing concentric halos of light and dark coming from the respective bulbs and intersecting with each other (if you spend enough time staring into a mirror you will eventually see this effect, but you have to be patient). I wonder - what is at the spots where light and dark intersect?
posted
Well I was really kidding. I thought I would be attacked by marauding bands of hatrackers with burning torches and pitchforks demanding to know how on earth (or anywhere else for that matter) anything could be below 0 K, since 0 K simply represents the complete lack of heat. That was my point, heat exists, cold doesn’t. Something is only cold to the degree to which it lacks the energy of heat. It’s like saying you can’t fit anything in the pantry because it’s full of emptiness. Heat is caused by the presence of something that exists: energy. Cold is what is left when you remove the energy. Absolute cold equals absolute emptiness. (This is starting to sound like a scene from “Proof.”) Absolute dark is just the lack of light. Dark is nothing, light is something: energy.
I have a friend who is a scientist over at Western Digital who calls flashlights dark suckers so I know what you mean Think, lol. He took me to Yosemite Valley with his computer controlled telescope equipment a couple of years back. I mean whoa, yeah, that all looks randomly accidental - to a blind man. (Double meaning intended.)
You know I was actually musing an idea a few years back. What if a scientist found a way to break one of the laws of physics? Like creating a temp below absolute zero. Would it force open a window at that location into an alternate dimension where that new value works? A bridge of sorts to a dimension with different laws of physics, or at least different values? It wouldn’t surprise me to find that, that’s truer than fiction.
I think of dimensions as cell phone frequencies. They can have millions of cell phones because you have a simulated crystal in your phone that vibrates at an exact, minute fraction of a radio frequency and yet there is no bleed over into the next cell phone that is the tiniest of a fraction away from your frequency. Cell phone are just high tech walkie-talkies. They use the same type of radio waves as the radio in your car where you listen to your favorite radio station (probably rap music). Except they take the distance between, say 95.5 and 95.6, and divide it up into thousands of precisely tuned fractions and assign each fraction to a phone like the one you have. Take something as thin as paper and divide that by a thousand and you begin to get the idea. There are people who have almost the exact same frequency as you - almost. They talk of their lives and loves and losses and yet you hear nothing and remain oblivious that their world is only a microscopically thin membrane away from yours.
Does our dimension vibrate at an exact and precisely tuned frequency? What are we not hearing? What are we not seeing? Have you really seen every color that could exist? How would you know… if you’ve never seen it???
Tracy
BTW If you google “absolute zero” and look at wikipedia, you’ll read that matter does indeed display properties close to defying the laws of physics when approaching 0 K (like certain liquids becoming immune to friction or gravity known as superfluidity.)
I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that superconductive materials (under some conditions) begin to behave in a manner reminiscent to quantum mechanics. So, rather than break its laws, perhaps superconductivity exhibits reality to a greater degree.
[This message has been edited by ChrisOwens (edited April 17, 2007).]
posted
Negative Kelvins are meaningless numbers. I would have called you on it but I didn't see this thread until now. Remember that SF readers are intelligent and will call your bluff. Using terms that make it obvious that the writer doesn't know his subject is a sure-fire way to gain a reputation as an idiot. Your choice, but if you want to write about this story premise, write it as a fantasy, not science fiction.
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posted
See message 8 Spaceman. I was just prankin, but what do you think of the science of my real idea that I mention in message 8.
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posted
NoTimeToThink - Good question. I'm not sure anyone really understands what happens at temperatures at or near absolute zero. As Inwitz pointed out, matter at such temperatures exhibits very peculiar characteristics and I don't think the how and why of it is well understood. As for black holes, density does not equal cold. Though they suck in everything, including light, they also throw out a tremendous amount of energy.
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quote:I reject the idea that cold and darkness don't exist. Why? Because they are perceptable. True they have no "substance," or whatever, absense of heat, absence of light, but they are still valid concepts and therefore still exist.
Scientifically speaking, cold and dark don't exist. Cold is merely the absence of heat. Dark is merely the absence of light. What you are "experiencing" in cold and dark is the lack of heat and light. It's the way I can tell the difference between 30 degrees and 70 degrees. When you have any temp above absolute zero, you still have heat, it's just not a lot. Temps below freezing, or below zero, still involve heat. Just not enough for water to exist as water. The numbers we assign to temps are arbitrary.
When it comes to light, it is merely different levels of light that are visible to the naked eye. Even infrared and ultralight are light (radiation), you just can't see it. Even in pure, total dark; dark isn't real, it's just the absence of light.
But back to tnwilz's original post. Yeah, make up your science. We like to call it soft science fiction. Or even science fantasy.
posted
The worst science in fiction I ever saw was the "lost in space" movie. The whole thing was just so slappy.
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quote:See message 8 Spaceman. I was just prankin, but what do you think of the science of my real idea that I mention in message 8.
I don't think I would do it with temperature because that has a very precise definition. How do you slow matter beyond stopped? I would find some other thing to change in order to slip into another dimension. Maybe a change something less tangible, like the frequency of dark energy.
Your cell phone analogy is interesting if you think about CDMA (code division multiple access) because with that modulation scheme, you can have as many as 30 speakers using the same frequency simultaneously and separately.
posted
Nitewriter, it's actually the matter being drawn into the black hole that emits most of that energy, the rest being Hawking radiation.
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