Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Cycle

   
Author Topic: Cycle
Rick Norwood
Member
Member # 5604

 - posted      Profile for Rick Norwood   Email Rick Norwood         Edit/Delete Post 
I want to break out of a cycle that goes like this. I write a lot of stories and have a lot of fun doing it. Then the rejection letters and slips begin to come in and I feel like I'm carsick. I push on for a little while and then stop. I don't write anything for about a year. The cycle begins again.

"Power", a story I had high hopes for, was just bounced by Interzone. It had previously been bounced by F&SF and Asimovs and it is clearly not in the Analog style. I'll probably try Baen next, but first I'll post the first 13 and see if anyone wants to read it and suggest improvements. (I wrote it shortly before visiting Hatrack River for the first time.)

But what I really want to do is to break out of the cycle of overreacting to rejection. I'm hoping that just writing about it here will help.


Posts: 557 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RMatthewWare
Member
Member # 4831

 - posted      Profile for RMatthewWare   Email RMatthewWare         Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately, we all go through that to some extent. What I do is just keep writing. I've been writing seriously for just over a year and a half, and haven't had anything published. I submit work for publication in spurts. All I can really say is, even if you have a rejection cycle, don't let that keep you from writing. Then, maybe once or twice a month, set aside a day to just bombard people with submissions. The places that take email submissions are best, because it takes little time or effort (and no postage) to send those out.
Posts: 657 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JamieFord
Member
Member # 3112

 - posted      Profile for JamieFord   Email JamieFord         Edit/Delete Post 
Brandon Sanderson had great advice for new writers: Allow yourself to suck.

Beethoven didn't compose great symphonies the first time he sat down at a piano. He kept plunking away. Same with writing. Don't be discouraged. Just keep at it. Odds are, the more your write, the better you'll get.

And be proud of your rejections. Some people never try. You're not among them.


Posts: 603 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lehollis
Member
Member # 2883

 - posted      Profile for lehollis   Email lehollis         Edit/Delete Post 
I once took 15 years off from writing.

Oddly, getting married sparked the writer's bug within me again. I attribute it to my wife being a writer, too. She didn't know I had once called myself a writer. Before we started dating, she saw an essay I had written and said, "Wow, you'd make a great writer."

It was love at first compliment

Even after our wedding, it took another five years for me to get into it again.

Thing is, I work best when I know someone will read my work. Even if it is just a friend. If I write something and send it out, and it gets rejected, it feels worthless to me because no ones ever seen it. So critiques help me a lot. Someone's reading it.

For others, that may not be enough. I think each writer has to find what keeps them going. It won't be the same that keeps the writer next door plugging away.

However, I don't think what you're seeing is abnormal. I think lots of writers hit that rejection wall and eventually need a break so their ego can heal a bit.

Another trick that works for me is to remind myself, moments before looking at a critique or rejection, that there will be lots of rejection and criticism. If it happens to be particularly bad, I put it away as quick as I can. Let it simmer in the back of my mind a while. Usually, when I go back to it, I see a light: something they said that is true or makes sense. I try to learn from it and move on.

Lately, this month, there have been days where I just thought I was wasting time trying to write and I should give up and it was stupid, etc. It happens. Usually, next day I was loving writing again. Sometimes it took two or three days. I just hope I get past that, soon.

So when you get rejections, any feedback you can learn from? Or just form letters?

PS. What makes it all sting, is when I stopped writing 15 years ago, I had just received a rejection from an editor of a good print market (they were all print back then). This one was fairly big. He said he [u]loved[/u] the piece, but just wanted me to lengthen it significantly. I never got around to doing that


Posts: 696 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Balthasar
Member
Member # 5399

 - posted      Profile for Balthasar   Email Balthasar         Edit/Delete Post 
First, rejections letters are the norm. Almost all writers have far more rejection letters than they do books and stories published. That's a fact you just have to accept. It's hard, I know, but it's true.

Second, I do my best to see rejection letters as proof that I'm a writer. I can tell people, "Yeah, I'm a writer." And if they say, "What have you gotten published," I can say with confidence, "Nothing, but I have X-amount of rejection letters." The more you have, the more impressive it is. To say you have over 100 rejection letters means that you've been working your ass off. It's proof that you're paying your dues.

Third, once a story is finished, try not to put so much hope in it. Just because you love it doesn't mean that it's any good. Try to distance yourself and say, "I will not judge it."

Fourth, this also goes for editors. EDITORS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE YOUR WORK. Nor do they. You just can't give them the emotional power to do so. If an editor says, "This isn't right for us," then it means that the story, good or bad, isn't right for us. (Though I have to say that I hate the way John Joseph Adams says, 'This tale didn't grab my interest, I'm afraid.' Sorry, but that's almost crossing the line.)

Fifth, what JamieFord said -- rejection letters are proof that you haven't quit. There is a valid reason to quit: family responsibilities is the only one I can think of. But to quit because of rejection letters, that's true failure.


Posts: 130 | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dee_boncci
Member
Member # 2733

 - posted      Profile for dee_boncci   Email dee_boncci         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, you can do it the way I do. Just keep writing every day, but never submit anything. Then you won't get the rejects.

(Just Kidding)

I've decided to wait to submit until a simple majority of crits and comments on something are somewhat positive. At one time that that threshold was 75%. Soon it might be 25%, I'm getting impatient. But that's off topic.

Having been rejected in other endeavors, the best thing to do is just not worry about it. Sounds trite, but it is a discipline, just like sitting down at the keyboard every day. David Gerrold or someone said the first million words are essentially "throw-away" before you'll really come into your own as a writer.


Posts: 612 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
autumnmuse
Member
Member # 2136

 - posted      Profile for autumnmuse   Email autumnmuse         Edit/Delete Post 
I've only been through one such cycle so far, but it was pretty long because I let it be.

I had a pro sale that I didn't even try for. Heady and flush with that success, I submitted maybe a half dozen times, just a couple stories to a couple markets. They were rejected and I quit. Worked on my novel instead, telling myself that I shouldn't bother trying to do both shorts and a novel at the same time. But I think I was mostly afraid of more rejection.

Well, a year later, the pain from those old rejections has healed, and what's more, I've grown enough as a person and a writer that I don't care as much as I once did. I've found a way to get a little distance after my stories are written and out the door. Do I still want them to be published? Heck yes. Do I still care about them and does it still sting to be rejected? Heck yes. But not enough to make me stop. I'm enjoying the journey and that's good enough for me.


Posts: 818 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nitewriter
Member
Member # 3214

 - posted      Profile for nitewriter   Email nitewriter         Edit/Delete Post 
"I had a pro sale that I didn't even try for."

Ok autumnmuse, you've got me hooked - and you didn't even try for that either. I'm very curious, how does one nail a pro sale without even trying for it?


Posts: 409 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
autumnmuse
Member
Member # 2136

 - posted      Profile for autumnmuse   Email autumnmuse         Edit/Delete Post 
I forget that not everyone knows that story. Pretty much everyone active on the boards in spring/summer 2005 heard me shout it from the rooftops though .

So, apologies to those who are sick of hearing about this, feel free to talk amongst yourselves. . . .

Okay, still here?

This is exerpted from an essay I wrote for inclusion with my story "Respite" when it is reprinted in an upcoming anthology by Tor:

quote:
"Respite" kept me from attending Orson Scott Card's Literary Bootcamp. At the time, I'd only finished one or two short stories and really had no clue what I was doing. Bootcamp would be a great way to light a fire under me, and OSC had been my favorite author since I first discovered him as a young teen. But I needed to come up with a one page writing sample for my application. I recalled a disturbing dream I'd had a few months previous in which I was on a wagon trying to outrun a menace that was about to hatch and devour everything in sight. The dream made such an impression that when I woke from it, I even sketched these creatures and their life cycle--and I can't draw. I wrote only the first page and sent it off, so anxious about the application that I didn't even finish writing the story. Then Scott's assistant, Kathleen Bellamy, called me one morning and said he wanted to read the whole thing. Could I send over the rest so he could read it that night?
"Sure!" I said, trying not to hyperventilate, and a frantic five hours followed. Amazingly, these two characters which began as mist in my mind came to life as soon as my fingers tapped the keyboard. I fell in love with them as I wrote, and I cried at the end. Without time for revisions, I emailed what I had.
The next morning Scott called me in person and told me he wasn't going to let me go to Bootcamp, since in his opinion I didn't need the class, and he wanted to buy the story from me instead, for this new magazine he was starting. Mine was the first story purchased.

It all sounds really impressive, and I guess it still is, but to date it's my only sale (though it is being re-printed in the antho, so it's sort of two sales).

The truly great thing that has come from that sale to IGMS though, is that Scott and I still email from time to time (he mentors me a bit), and he wants to read my novel when I finish it. Plus, it gave me the credit I needed to join Codex, a very good online writing group that several other Hatrackers are members of.

It was a truly awesome experience. It's just that it was two years ago, and it's still the highlight of my writing career. I'm hoping to top it eventually .

[This message has been edited by autumnmuse (edited July 25, 2007).]


Posts: 818 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spaceman
New Member
Member # 9240

 - posted      Profile for Spaceman           Edit/Delete Post 
I remember it well. I was bummed along with all the other '05 bootcampers because we never got the chance to meet you in person.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nitewriter
Member
Member # 3214

 - posted      Profile for nitewriter   Email nitewriter         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the explanation autumnmuse - appreciate it and yes I thinK it is VERY impressive and you know at this point you CAN do it despite rejections - and that is valuable knowledge to have.

Writing on demand like that with such time constraints, I can't even imagine that - and I don't want to!


Posts: 409 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
I've gone through cycles. For about a year I've been extraordinarily prolific (the bulk of it a novel and a novelette, with a couple smaller items)...that followed about four years of thin and far between...which followed a year and a half of heavy output (the Internet Fan Fiction I've spoken of), which followed a five-year struggle to finish my last completed attempt at a novel.

It all usually comes out at about five hundred words a day, too, when I'm writing. Only rarely---and usually when I'm reaching the end of something---do I gallop ahead in bigger amounts.

It's rarely-if-ever anything in my life that sets it off. I've had a lot of ongoing turmoil at work that doesn't seem to affect my output at the moment---other times, maybe. I used some time where I was "off the clock," and my further employment there was in doubt, to finish up that "last-finished novel" I mentioned. (My previous prolific period ended precisely on September 11th, 2001...the Internet Fan Fiction carried on into the following dry period as well before running out of steam.)

I was once told to put no significance in any rejection or acceptance. I might like to have an acceptance (or, better yet, some money) to balance the rejections, but I'll perservere after that. My first writing goal is getting something published in a paying market. My second writing goal is to get somethine else published.

(Baen is buying right now?)


Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JamieFord
Member
Member # 3112

 - posted      Profile for JamieFord   Email JamieFord         Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, that's an amazing story Autumn!
Posts: 603 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
darklight
Member
Member # 5213

 - posted      Profile for darklight   Email darklight         Edit/Delete Post 
I've had plenty of rejections - I think I've become hardened to them. I don't smart as much as I used to, in fact, the last couple I haven't smarted at all, even though I waited SEVEN months for the rejection slip.

I see rejections as getting the work out there; at least you're doing something with the stories you write.

I used to get a load of short stories accepted for publication by a small press - about twelve in all, and some poems, until I woke up one day and smelled the coffee. I sent them two stories in for a competition - a number of winning stories would go into an anthology. One was rather quite good, the other was probably the most cliched thing I'd ever written - I wrote it that way deliberatly as a test.

Guess which one they accepted for publication - and had a mention in the press release?

You've got it, the cliched one!

Hence, I sent them no more stories.

Rejections don't put me off writing - a lot of things have done in the last few years, but not that. It makes me want to write even more, even better. I would never give up sending to publishers/agents. I'm going to send off my YA novel at the beginning of August.

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited July 26, 2007).]


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RMatthewWare
Member
Member # 4831

 - posted      Profile for RMatthewWare   Email RMatthewWare         Edit/Delete Post 
Jim Butcher has published about thirteen books now (The Dresden Files accounting for nine of them). His first book was published in 2000 (if I remember correctly). He gave this bit of advice on his website: "Here's the secret of how to get published: keep going."

That's basically it. If you keep writing when others give up, you'll get better at it until something happens. If you keep working on learning the business and what people want, you might make it. The entire article/interview on his path to publication is on his website. I've found it very inspiring and informative. Here's the address:

http://www.jim-butcher.com/jim/


Posts: 657 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rick Norwood
Member
Member # 5604

 - posted      Profile for Rick Norwood   Email Rick Norwood         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the comments.

I have well over 100 rejection slips and letters. Mostly, these days, I get letters or notes ("Good work but not for us. Let us see your next.") but the Interzone was a form e-mail, after my previous submissions got notes. I just had a thought, though -- isn't there an earthbound issue of Interzone coming up with a different editor? Maybe I'll send Power there.

"I'm not like the others. Pain hurts me." -- Daffy Duck


Posts: 557 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
The only thing a rejection means to me is that I have give it a quick read, then to spend a little time looking through Duotrope and ralan for the next market. Normally within two hours it is off to another editor.

My most recent rejection was an invitation to resubmit on my novel though. Happy day. I like that kind.


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spaceman
New Member
Member # 9240

 - posted      Profile for Spaceman           Edit/Delete Post 
I have 384 rejections since I started keeping track, and fully 1/3 of those rejections were for stories I ultimately sold.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2