Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » outrageously optimistic, but hear me out

   
Author Topic: outrageously optimistic, but hear me out
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
what would you do if you queried a bunch of agents, multiple of them asked to see your MS, you send it off, and then two agents simultaneously agree to represent it? Do you just choose one and go with it, or what?
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolfe_boy
Member
Member # 5456

 - posted      Profile for Wolfe_boy   Email Wolfe_boy         Edit/Delete Post 
Basically. I don't think that an agent would be willing to bargain to a lower commission rate with a first-time author. If you tried to haggle with one, they would most likely just say "thanks but no thanks" and then your decision is made.

Are we talking hypothetical situation here? Or are you experiencing this?

Jayson Merryfield


Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
annepin
Member
Member # 5952

 - posted      Profile for annepin   Email annepin         Edit/Delete Post 
I would try to meet or talk to them if i could, and see if there's one I felt more comfortable with or liked better. Remember, this person is going to be batting for you. You have to make sure you trust them.
Posts: 2185 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
Go with whichever one has the better deal...be polite to the other when you brush him off, though...
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RMatthewWare
Member
Member # 4831

 - posted      Profile for RMatthewWare   Email RMatthewWare         Edit/Delete Post 
Be honest with them. Look at the deals, pick the one you like most, then tell the other agent that you got a better deal and ask if they can beat it. Either they will or they won't. If you're worried about taking too long to accept, tell the agent with the better offer that you received multiple offers and that you are considering them and will get back with them shortly.

Agents will haggle with a new author if multiple agents are interested. It shows them that not only they were interested and that maybe you really do have a good book. Agents will play this process with the publishers too. If they get more than one offer, they'll hold a sort of auction (these are handled in various ways) to drive up the price of the book.

So yeah, supply and demand. You have one manuscript with two or more buyers. See who will pay the most. Or, you can choose the agent based on their history, what kind of deals they've made, which authors they represent and so on.


Posts: 657 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lehollis
Member
Member # 2883

 - posted      Profile for lehollis   Email lehollis         Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen some agent blog posts on this topic recently. The general idea is to let them both know politely, if you're going to need time to think it over. They should both be professionals, so if either is put out by this it's a clear warning sign.

The decision is just a matter of which one you like best. Who will get you published? Who will get a good advance? Who is least likely to drop you after a couple tries with editors?


Posts: 696 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stewie72
Member
Member # 6774

 - posted      Profile for Stewie72   Email Stewie72         Edit/Delete Post 
I thought it generally worked the other way. You get a publisher to bite, then go to agents and ask if any want to represent you. IIRC that was the way it was explained in one of the writing lessons on this site:

Do I need an Agent?


Posts: 11 | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lehollis
Member
Member # 2883

 - posted      Profile for lehollis   Email lehollis         Edit/Delete Post 
Stewie72, that post is eight years old. The publishing world changes over time, and while many writers still do it that way these days, more seem to seek an agent first and let the agent secure a publisher. Both seem to be equally valid, from what I've noted.

[This message has been edited by lehollis (edited November 03, 2007).]


Posts: 696 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stewie72
Member
Member # 6774

 - posted      Profile for Stewie72   Email Stewie72         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the update I have ZERO experience in dealing with either publishers or agents. My response was more of an additional question than answer to Zero's query.
Posts: 11 | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, some want an exclusive, but barring that there would be a number of things to consider. You would want to let them know. That is only a matter of courtesy.

Which one has had the most success with your genre and subgenre and especially titles which are somewhat similar to yours--this will have a BIG affect on their success with your work. Which one does best with foreign rights? Which one do you feel more confortable with?

I know absolutely without doubt who my dream agent is. If he offered me a contract I would turn down anyone short of god. So it can depend on the situation.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 03, 2007).]


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
What is a good resource for getting more information on particular agents and getting an idea of the track records of their successes.?
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lehollis
Member
Member # 2883

 - posted      Profile for lehollis   Email lehollis         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree on the research. I didn't mention it because I assumed it had been done.

http://www.agentquery.com/ is a good place to start. You can also learn a lot from their Web sites. I'm sure there are others, too.

[This message has been edited by lehollis (edited November 04, 2007).]


Posts: 696 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nitewriter
Member
Member # 3214

 - posted      Profile for nitewriter   Email nitewriter         Edit/Delete Post 
Zero, check out the yearly publication "Writer's Market". The book has a section of agents which will list what they publish -(fiction/non-fiction or both) genre and subject. They will also list rights, commissions - how many books they published the last year - and often how many/percentage published were first time authors - response time and other information as well. It's a great resource.

[This message has been edited by nitewriter (edited November 04, 2007).]


Posts: 409 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
Writer's Market is a good resource but I don't consider it enough so I go considerably beyond that. I also use agentquery.com which is an excellent resource for getting a starting list of agents who say they look at SF/F. They have a number of good author resources beside their database such as a tracker for when you send out queries and they do list a lot of the agents' clients.

The professional resource is Publisher's Marketplace. A subscription costs $20 a month but well worth the cost for a month or two in order to really be able to research. Not to mention it's a fascinating look at the REAL world of publishing. Little things like who are the top selling agents (not necessarily the best for SF/F) and who's hiring who. Not all deals are reported to PM but by far the majority. $20 a month is (for my budget anyway) a lot, but you only need to keep it a month or two.

This is how I can say with absolute certainty in a letter to an agent "You are the agent for EPIC NOVEL by FANTASY WRITER, and I believe my novel would interest the same readers." (or something of the sort.) This approach takes you out of the clueless category and out of the "spamming every agent in NY" category both of which agents constantly complain about not to mention starting the letter out talking about the recipient which has obvious psychological advantages.

But beyond that it shows you that the agent actually has good contacts with the publishers like Tor that you want to sell to and that they can successfully market that kind of novel.

I don't know why no one tells writers about this resource. I wouldn't consider signing with an agent without having researched them here. Their databases of WHO REPRESENTS WHO and DEALS is just amazing.

http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/

Now an agent with a track record on PM is highly unlikely to be a scammer but just to be SURE I wouldn't consider querying one without checking them on Writer Beware and Preditors and Editors.

http://www.sfwa.org/beware/
http://anotherealm.com/prededitors/

What a lot of people don't tell you is there are a fair number of incompetent/dishonest people out there presenting themselves as agents. You do NOT want to unknowingly get sucked in by one of them. Here is an important quote from Writer Beware: Writer Beware has files on nearly 400 questionable agencies, and we learn about a new one every few weeks.

So before you even do your queries, do your homework. Besides then you look more professional to the agents who respect people who are knowledgeable and careful enough to do this.

Edit: By using PM you actually know--usually--exactly what an agents deals are. Have they ACTUALLY sold epic fantasy? How often and what? I was amazed to discover a huge percentage of the business out there in spec fiction is done by a relatively small number of agents.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 04, 2007).]


[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 04, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 04, 2007).]


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
annepin
Member
Member # 5952

 - posted      Profile for annepin   Email annepin         Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, JeanneT, thanks for all this great info! I'm far from beginning the query process, but when the time comes (cross fingers), I'll be sure to use your suggestions.
Posts: 2185 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, thanks! And please keep me updated on your progress/success.
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JamieFord
Member
Member # 3112

 - posted      Profile for JamieFord   Email JamieFord         Edit/Delete Post 
I was fortunate enough to have this exact problem.

In the end, I chose the agent I felt most comfortable with. But, as JeanneT pointed out, PublishersMarkeplace was well worth the $20/month to check their sales histories.

Also, before I signed I asked for the contact info of several clients on each agents roster––so I could check them as references.


Posts: 603 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lehollis
Member
Member # 2883

 - posted      Profile for lehollis   Email lehollis         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know if this is good etiquette or not, but would it make sense to ask what the agent's contract includes? Some may include strange clauses or conditions you may not like.
Posts: 696 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
Any with strange clauses are likely to be on P&E or Writer Beward. This is an issue with them. However, before you sign you would want to look over a contract.

When a publishers asked for a full on one of my novel mss., because it was a small press that I didn't know much about I asked for a list of authors I could talk to. She was happy to provide it, saying that if more authors did that fewer would end up in trouble. I think a legit agent would feel the same way.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 05, 2007).]


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
OMG OMG!!!!

I just got a request for a partial from Kristin Nelson!!


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JamieFord
Member
Member # 3112

 - posted      Profile for JamieFord   Email JamieFord         Edit/Delete Post 
JeanneT--Congrats! (She's my agent by the way). What type of book is it? I know she's been looking to build her SF&F roster.

Lehollis--Kristin sent me copy of her agency agreement right away, while I was still trying to decide on which agent to go with. I didn't ask, she just told me how her agreements work and sent it via email. It wasn't dramatically different that any other agency agreement, but it was nice to have it offered up front.


Posts: 603 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks. I've heard good things about her and I was picky about who I sent queries to. My novel is a fantasy of the epic variety but no elves, dwarves, or dragons. I think I can safely say it's not Tolkienesque.

I am so excited I can't even finish my writing schedule for the night. This is my first partial request.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 06, 2007).]


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
That rocks JeanneT!

Which makes me wonder, if you are asked to send your full MS, do you do it as one massive envelope on paper or is it more common to send it electronically?


Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
It depends on the agent, I believe. Ms. Nelson apparently runs a "paperless" office and asks for all her submissions electronically. I've seen other agents say they prefer paper submissions.
Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
annepin
Member
Member # 5952

 - posted      Profile for annepin   Email annepin         Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, that's great, JeanneT! Congrats!

I'm curious, is this the query you were working on most recently? And I remember you used the advice on her site (I think it was hers, yes?). I assume you sent her the query modeled after her recommendations?


Posts: 2185 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes to both questions. Obviously she was telling the truth about what she likes.

I sent out 10 queries total to my top picks in agents. One immediately hated it and sent me a no within a few hours. Ms. Nelson obviously liked it. The others I still haven't heard from. I still have twelve agents left on my "good epic fiction agents" list. (I didn't lie when I said I was being picky) By doing it in stages, if this letter didn't work I would still have some to try with a revised version.

At least only one of them was an instant no, so I have hopes for getting some more positives. Some seem to have a fast turn around if they really hate your letter. If I get more positives on this letter, I'll go ahead and query the rest on my list. But I wanted to be absolutely sure this was a good letter by trying it out on actual live agents.

I'm still excited. My first partial request! Her instructions for returning it were quite specific which was nice (except on one small point which I'm now obsessing over. lol)


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
I see you as a kind of pioneer, since you're a few steps ahead of me and seem to be setting a good precedence.
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I hope that someone else will benefit from what I do right and what I do wrong.

Last time I thought my novels were possibly publishable by a small press but not really ready for an agent for a couple of reasons. So this is all totally new for me but I'm pretty good at research so I've tried to educate myself.


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
Jamie, it just clicked what book Kristin represents for you. I remember seeing your name in the Deals section of PM. Sounds fascinating.

Congrats!


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lehollis
Member
Member # 2883

 - posted      Profile for lehollis   Email lehollis         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, I plan to buy and read the book when its out, Jamie. When I read what it was about on the blog, I was blown away by the idea. Good stuff!
Posts: 696 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JamieFord
Member
Member # 3112

 - posted      Profile for JamieFord   Email JamieFord         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks! Again, good luck with Kristin.
Posts: 603 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeanneT
Member
Member # 5709

 - posted      Profile for JeanneT   Email JeanneT         Edit/Delete Post 
I was just looking at this thread because I realized it left off (at least I can't find it) one of what I consider the most useful sites regarding the agent search which is QueryTracker.net. I use it and recommend it.
Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2