posted
I've mentioned before my problems with writing short fiction. I just can't seem to get the hang of it. I was wondering if there are any books on it that someone might recommend? I thought about just giving up, but I'm not ready to do that.
There has to be some way I can figure out how a short story arc works (and that's where I run into trouble). It's kind of an instinct with novels. But short stories...
Any suggestions? To tell you the truth I'm not usually big on reading about writing. But I'll give it a try if someone can recommend something.
posted
I know if the story I want to write is a short story or really a novel by looking at the time frame the story encompasses.
Why don't you try and write a story where events happens over, say at most, an hour. i like these types of short story because then you can put a decent amount of detail in. If the story is too big you find you have to drop detail in favour of the unfolding of a big plot.
I would defy you (well not really--I am sure it's been done!) to make a novel out it.
As far as books go...I don't know any. When I started writing a year ago I read books on writing novels and just writing in general. When I wanted to write a short story I thought of it as a glimpse into someones life, or just the pivotal moments...not the before or after bits.
Can't help, sorry.
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posted
I have no trouble telling if what I am writing should be short story or a novel. It should ALWAYS be a novel. It takes place in an hour? Then it's the first hour of a novel--or maybe a middle hour.
I appreciate the suggestion but that doesn't work for me. (One of my short stories takes place in about 15 minutes)
I would say, however, that a short story isn't just a glimpse into someone's life. A short story needs to have a story arc and conflict. There should also probably be some degree of character change. A glimpse into someone's life is a vignette (or should be--I won't go into the literary stuff that has no story arc and no plot).
Beyond Card's books and King's book on writing, I normally avoid reading about writing at all costs. You learn more about writing by writing than by reading about doing it. But I simply can't develop the elements I need to successfully write short stories. I've come to the conclusion that if I'm going to solve this problem I am going to need help with it.
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posted
I didn't mean it doesn't have an arc, with characters, conflict etc. Just that I personally would sruggle to write a short story that encompassed a year of characters life in 2500 words.
In terms of killer robot monkeys. For me, a short story would be about the professor finally loading up the control software into them--convinced of his success--but then finding that his assistant has turned all the safety protocols off. Escaping into a small metal cupboard, the professor cleverly reprogrammes them using morse code and a flashlight. Then the side-kick enters, expecting to find the mangled remains of the prof, but gets ripped apart instead.
Obviously thats rubbish, but the story arc is very small.
posted
I've read several books about writing, and I don't recall one that gives a good articulation of "how to write a short story." There are some obvious characteristics of course: few characters, less character development, only one or two settings to describe; but we all know that.
In addition to OSC's book there were two that were of significant help in getting my first couple of short stories out of my head and into draft form.
One was Ben Bova's "The Craft of Writing Science Fiction that Sells" which, in addition to all the usual stuff about character, plot and viewpoint, includes and analyzes several complete short stories. I don't have a copy to hand right now and I cannot remember the specifics, but I do recall finding it useful, which it ought to be bearing in mind Bova's pedigree as both a writer and editor. Of course, it's Bova so there's at least one stellar vista and probably a fantastic machine or two: not your taste but the story-telling techniques ought surely to be applicable to all SF&F sub-genres.
The book that actually got me off my ass and writing was (sorry, OSC) Ray Bradbury's "Zen in the Art of Writing." Bradbury's energy is infectious! He advises, amongst other things, getting the first draft of a short story completely written in one sitting, so as to preserve the energy and passion one feels for the plot and its characters.
That's become my process for writing a short story -- to find a plot I feel confident I can write first draft of, completely, in one sitting. The time constraint of "one sitting" (four to six hours) forces me to think small, short. In consequence, one cuts out the meanderings and diversions that might make it a novel, instead concentrating on the core of the story. It becomes a vignette, sharply focused on one idea that's simple enough to get across in a few thousand words.
The Taco Mix competition taught me it's not even necessary to have the whole story in mind before starting; the self-imposed time pressure forces me to resolve the plot quickly. (No, it didn't win, didn't even come close, but I learned about the story space I wanted to explore -- presenting complex scientific arguments from both sides in an authentic and accessible manner -- and that was the point.)
Hope this helps, Pat
Edited to get the links right.
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posted
It occurs to me that one way to write a short SciFi story is to define a question of the form, "What would happen if ..." and answer it briefly, with sharp focus.
Asimov's "Nightfall" was a classic example: What would happen if the sun only went down once every several thousand years?
posted
People are giving their opinions on how to write the story but not really giving you your answer. Some people can write novels, some can write short stories, some can write both, and some can write neither. I'm good an novels, but not shorts. Some are good at shorts, but not novels. But can you be taught how to do both? Most of the opinions here are just how others do it. And there's a million ways to be a writer.
But I do remember Kathleen recommending a book on the subject that might teach you. It's Writing in General and the Short Story in Particular by L Rust Hills. It's $10.40 at Amazon, or you can buy it used for $2.99. I've not read it so I can't recommend it, but Kathleen has mentioned it before.
posted
"People are giving their opinions on how to write the story but not really giving you your answer."
There are only two "people" and I'm one of 'em.
First let me thank you for the reference to L Rust Hills.
In answer to your implied criticism, my references to Bova and Bradbury were direct answers to Jeanne's question.
For offering an opinion, I make no apology for trying to address the essence of the question which was, as I understood it, 'How do you write a short story?'
I think Hatrack should be a place for warmth and mutual support, not one of dampening enthusiasm and mechanically answering the question, the whole question and nothing but. When we stumble about trying to help each other and sometimes misstep, we should surely encourage, not stomp.
quote:In answer to your implied criticism, my references to Bova and Bradbury were direct answers to Jeanne's question.
If you answered her question, then feel free to assume the criticism was going elsewhere (though it wasn't meant to be criticism, I was trying to directly answer a direct question).
Posts: 657 | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
RMatthewWare is right about me recommending Hills' book.
Will Shetterly recommended it to me, and after I'd purchased it and read it, I wrote a short story that became my first sale. (How's that for a testimonial?)
It's short enough and inexpensive enough to get and read more than once, and I do recommend it, highly.
Edited to add: before I read Hills' book, I was convinced that I could only write novels.
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited November 22, 2007).]
posted
Everyone's help is appreciated and I don't think any criticism was intended. He just thought my original question hadn't been answered.
By implication, I was also asking if anyone had advise to address what I view as a problem. So you were answering what was an unspoken question.
Let me put it this way. I WANT to write short stories. I don't find them comfortable OR natural. That doesn't mean (I think) that I can't learn to write them or at least try.
I think I have pin pointed at least part of the problem. I was reading some short stories in various publications last night. One of them was Goat Eschatologies (current Strange Horizons) and I re-read Pip and the Fairies (Nebula nominee last year from Strange Horizons).
I enjoyed both but I'll tell you the truth in analyzing them, I'll be damned if I could see the story arc. Am I blind or something? What IS the story arc in a short? Neither had what seemed to be an identifiable antagonist. I didn't feel as though Pip had character change. Pip didn't seem to me to have any conflict.
I don't know. Maybe I am incapable of learning to write them. That is profoundly discouraging.
Edit: That is exactly how I feel, Kathleen. Thanks for the recommendation! I will definitely pick it up and read it.
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posted
I'm sorry if anyone's feeling criticized. I just wanted to answer the question.
My quote:
quote:People are giving their opinions on how to write the story but not really giving you your answer.
By what I had read, this was true. I didn't mean to invalidate anyone's comments, which may or may not have been helpful (I don't know, I'm not Jeanne). The referenced books didn't seem to address the question of short stories (though its very possible they are useful books that Jeanne could benefit from).
quote:Most of the opinions here are just how others do it. And there's a million ways to be a writer.
Very true. There are a million ways to do just about anything. Again, I wasn't trying to invalidate anyone's opinion or be offensive. Just trying to answer the question, though my technique may have been more rough than necessary.
Please, to the two I offended, I'll try to omit some of my more snarky comments. And please keep offering what help you can and we can hope I can phrase things a little better.
A note on Jeanne's last post: I seem to have the same problem with short stories. I'm reading "Tapping the Dream Tree" by Charles deLint. It's a book of shorts (though I didn't realize it when I bought it). I like all the stories, but I still have no idea how to create my own shorts. I might just pick up the book KDW referenced.
posted
The thing is that I particularly like Pip and the Fairies, although I honestly couldn't tell you why except that it is beautifully crafted. But when it comes to learning from it and applying what I learn to my own writing, I simply can't seem to do it. I've been told that reading short stories will help my own shorts. That works with novels. For me, it doesn't work with short stories. I think it has to do with a natural or instinctive understanding of a form.
But I have hopes for the book Kathleen recommended. It's next on my reading list.
posted
I highly recommend SCENE AND SEQUEL, by Bickham (which was recommended to me here by several Hatrackers.)
It's a dry writing book, but has many examples. It's not specifically about writing short stories, but I have found that his structure has helped me craft really TIGHT stories, does that make sense? Many find his style to be overly constricting. I have heard some say they find it useful for certain types of stories or stories in certain genres. I haven't been writing very long (11 mos), and haven't written that much since reading his book, but I can say unequivocally that all the things I've written since then have received more positive feedback than anything I wrote before.
I find it one of those books that I've read, digested, and find working their way into my habits as a storyteller. I have had similar success with ON WRITING, and BIRD BY BIRD (anne Lamott) - though both of those books gave me less tangible "lessons" if that helps at all.
Bickham feels very much like a textbook, but I suggest you give it a try and see if it fits for you. I have been (pleasantly) surprised.
Now excuse me while I go add Kathleen's book rec to my Amazon wishlist. It's gift-giving season you know...
posted
Thanks Jeanne for the reference to 'Pip and the Fairies'. A wonderful little story which well illustrates the problem. Apparently absent story arc and conflict, it's hard to see how it works. Yet it does.
Here's my attempt at an analysis FWIW. I don't know how to analyze it without discussing the ending, so ...
*** SPOILER ALERT ***
First, we're told that 'every story starts with a problem.' The problem here is, not who dunnit or something like that, but 'How would it feel?' -- How would it feel if your mother wrote fairy tales and you were fairly sure, though not entirely, that you'd really lived them? If a story arc is the problem which connects the parts of the story, the idea of how it might feel, I think, is this story's arc.
The story's thesis is that you'd feel perplexed, puzzled -- and eventually driven to find out if the Thorn King and Jack Feather were real. By using a story-within-a-story structure and carefully not resolving the question 'Were the Thorn King and Jack Feather real?' it conjures into the reader's mind Pip's feelings of perplexity.
The protag and the antag are the two sides of Pip. She's in conflict with herself. Part of her thinks Fairyland was real, and part of her doesn't.
At the end of the story we're still not quite sure if Fairyland was real or not. The ending haunts us; we turn it over in our mind searching for clues, just as Pip would have done, and we know how she felt.
The story has what I think of as a circular structure, by which I mean that the ending somehow refers back to the beginning. In this case the circle is completed when Pip starts to write stories herself -- and as well as leaving acting behind, that's her character change. The circle is what makes the ending a satisfactory one: symmetry is pleasing. (Circular structure is not uncommon in short stories, I think. Heinlein's 'By His Bootstraps' is a classic example which comes to mind. Tolkein's 'Leaf by Niggle' is another.)
The story works because it sets out to recreate Pip's inner doubts and needs. With its circular symmetry it leaves us satisfied, yet with a haunting feeling of perplexity that we know brings us closer to Pip.
Me, I think she really does visit Fairyland and I hope she finds Jack.
Pat
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posted
I'd like to suggest an experiment for those who want to learn from "Pip and the Fairies" (or other stories that have really impressed you) and are willing to risk not liking it afterwards.
Try reading the story straight through four times without reading anything else in between (and, if possible, without doing anything else in between). You should begin noticing some of the things the author is doing by the third read-through, if not before.
posted
Other ways to analyze stories (long or short):
read the story sentence-by-sentence or paragraph-by-paragraph (or both) backwards, so you are not caught up in the story itself but can look at the actual wordcrafting.
use highlighter pens or underlining pencils to color-code various aspects of the story (as in green for characterization, blue for setting, red for plot points, yellow for whatever else you are looking for--or color choices according to your own preference). This will help you "see" some of the things the author is doing in the story.
Edited to add: I'd recommend a separate color for descriptions because I think you want to see how much of that an author does, too.
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited November 23, 2007).]
posted
Thanks for the excellent suggestions, Kathleen. I am determined to conquer my difficulty with short stories. I'm sure with all these suggestions, I'll get there.
Oh and I wanted to quote something:
Remember the brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something.
Prof. Randy Pausch
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posted
Oh, an excellent analysis, TaleSpinner. I do like that story but I have scratched my head over why it does work so well. And thanks for the additional suggestions, IB.
Blech. I was asking a question about short story structure (combined with a bit of a whine) but I'll read the suggested books instead and see if they improve my handling Of them.
*sighs* I would really be interested (just for my own edification--I'm selfish sometimes) in a thread that discusses and analyzes short fiction in order to perhaps learn more about them.
Would anyone else be interested? Since it would of necessity involve spoilers, I'm not sure if it would fall within the rules of Hatrack or not.
Anyone? [This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 23, 2007).]
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I've learned much from analyzing stories, and have found it useful to share analysis from time to time. Kathleen's method of reading it four times sounds excellent. (I suspect I do that, but intuitively, not so formally. I'll try the formal method next time.)
Perhaps it could work like this: someone identifies a good short story that works but it's hard to see why and posts a link to it in a new thread in Discussing Published Books.
Anyone interested in offering an analysis does so with a spoiler alert. We'll probably see different things in the analysis but that will be educational too.
The stories should probably be on-line (or in current issues of magazines) so they're easy to find.
posted
I would second the recommendation of Bickham's book. You might also consider Damon Knight's Creating Short Fiction, or even (shudder) Story Structure Architect, although I have to tell you it is a very slow book to read.
Barry Longyear's book is good too, although I really think Bickham and Knight together will give you what you want.