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Author Topic: On morality
Bent Tree
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I am faced with a moral question.

I have been mulling over a story for a while now. It is a future Earth story that characters which represent members of the Lakota tribe (Fictitious of course) Since this is a speculative fiction story there is the whole All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.disclaimer implied, but..

The Lakota are adament about not being exploited through fiction, media, ritual infringement, etc..

I am sympathetic to their cause and concerns. Any thoughts?


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mikemunsil
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There's a difference between celebration and exploitation. Just make sure you celebrate them.
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Bent Tree
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It is definately a story of triumph
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Elan
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Is there any reason you cannot create a fictitional tribe?

If, for some reason, having them be Lakota is instrumental to the plot, you could (and should) make some efforts to know individuals within the culture. You'll find out things you didn't know before, and make the story more real. And you might be able to talk with someone about how you can portray the culture without exploitation. Finding someone who is a Storyteller to speak with would be optimum... they would be most likely to understand your motives.


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Bent Tree
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I would prefer it to have elements which are based in truth. There is actually a strong message based on real world possibilities based on the tribe, or my knowledge of it anyway.

Contacting is the tribe is a good idea. I have decided to do so. I think I might offer them a donation based on the sale, if indeed it actually does sell.


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Robert Nowall
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Can such things be copyrighted or trademarked?
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TaleSpinner
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I agree with the idea of contacting the tribe. Their idea of what constitutes 'exploitation' may not be the same as a white man's.

http://www.elexion.com/lakota/wisdom/texto41b.htm#5

(Legally, as I'm sure you appreaciate, the disclaimer is enough to avoid libel suits provided you don't base characters on identifiable individuals. But I don't think that's what you mean. I think you want to maintain their respect and not appear to use their ideas and tribal identity in any way they would regard as exploitation, right?)

Pat


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Bent Tree
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Yeah, that is pretty much it Pat. I am not concerned with legalities. I just respect the stance they have taken on matters of protecting their ways.
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KayTi
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If you know the tribal culture well enough to know they don't want to be exploited in fiction or other means, why not choose a different tribe or create something fictional but based on what you know about the Lakota?

If there's something compelling about the Lakota that you feel you must write, then I think your best option is to do as other posters suggest and work with someone/some representatives.


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Pyraxis
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I agree with most of the above - I think you should either contact a member or use a different tribe in your story. Even the most well-meaning outsider can easily fall into cliche and stereotype. This is an issue in the disability community too, where I first stumbled across it. For example someone who rushes to help a stranger in a wheelchair over a bump, by picking up the wheelchair by the handles, has done something equivalent to shoving an able-bodied person through a doorway because they didn't seem to be moving fast enough.
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Bent Tree
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Thanks for that analogy Pyraxis. A well made point that I hadn't considered.

I have a email out to one of the administrators, and am considering getting this story ready for this:

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum13/HTML/000141.html

I am sure we will start a group as Kathleen suggested after all these other contests are out of the way. Submissions open in October.


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J
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Not to put too fine a point on it--who the hell cares what they think? Do you contact Al Sharpton before writing a story with black characters? George W. Bush before writing about whites? It's nonsensical.
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Toby Western
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To quote Woody Allen in the funniest film ever made: "Morality is subjective"
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Pyraxis
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quote:
Not to put too fine a point on it--who the hell cares what they think? Do you contact Al Sharpton before writing a story with black characters? George W. Bush before writing about whites? It's nonsensical.

It's courtesy, and good writing, to write about what you know and to make sure you get informed about the things you don't already know. Unlikely that the Lakotas' policy would be enforced legally on the story in question - it's just too small beans and they're not a powerful enough political group.

Bent Tree already mentioned being sympathetic to their cause. Whether any minority should be able to establish a policy restricting or policing their media image is a separate issue from whether to do research in order to respect their existing policy.


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thayerds
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Hope it's not too late to chime in. There are a couple of books you could read that would really help. "The White Man's Indian" and "Killing the White Man's Indian." Both available on Amazon (I just checked). These are not about Native Americans, but rather about the miss consceptions Whites and others have about them even to this day. I would read them before I contacted any Indian Nation so I didn't appear like the typical missinformed outsider. For example, the Lakota are not a tribe, they are a Nation. A tribe is something else entirely.
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Zero
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quote:
Not to put too fine a point on it--who the hell cares what they think? Do you contact Al Sharpton before writing a story with black characters? George W. Bush before writing about whites? It's nonsensical.

That made me laugh. J, you really should hang around more often.


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Elan
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quote:
For example, the Lakota are not a tribe, they are a Nation.

Good point, thayerds.

Not everyone realizes that Native American nations are just that - independent sovereign nations. They have their own government systems and laws.


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Robert Nowall
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Sidebar thought: there is, or used to be, a kind of reaction in science fiction fandom whenever someone published a story that had a character in it that was (a) Jewish, and (b) not so nice. You might call it the Sam Moskowitz syndrome, named after one of the (deceased) chief reactors.

Personally, I always thought it was kind of restrictive on the writer, though I can't recall if I made any of my not-so-nice characters this religious persuasion...


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