I feel that I have a better, clearer image of the story holistically.

Most of you are probably like "Duh!" but to me it was an awakening. I usually just get an idea and it unwinds as I type. It does however lead me to a question which I suppose is the point of this thread.

"Do you think it would be beneficial to workshop this stage of development?" It seems to me if I could brainstorm with someone on aspects of character and plot, as I was mapping and developing the story, problems and questions might arise early on, which would lead to leaner more effective drafts. Does any one else agree or at least see logic in this style of workshopping? If so, how could it be done effectively?

I think of the tool as a comb. Combing through plots to straighten them out involves two processes. The first is checking for relevant connections between the inciting moment, the rising action scenes, the climax, the falling action scenes, and the resolution. If they're not related, and ideally they should be, I revise to make them so in my stories.

The second process begins with scrutinizing for causation as the linear movement of plot. I believe that a cause should have an immediate, proportionate, and appropriate effect. I also think escalating causes and effects should create a stair-stepped increase in tension rather than a smooth curve or a flat line.

Once the linear flow is straightened out, I scrutinize the scale of opposition to the protagonist's purpose. (I prefer the term protagonist over main character because it keeps the relationship of the focal character to antagonism--problems opposing the protagonist's purpose--in the forefront of my mind. Not all opposition is antagonism, though.) Opposition should widen proportionately until the moment of climax, and tension increase should result. At the climax, the forces of the protagonist's purpose and problems are in maximum opposition and the outcome is most in doubt. Opposition should decrease as the plot approaches resolution.

When I compose a plot is when I start these processes and continue it in successive drafts. I call the process a plot lab. I've experienced informal "plot labs" in forms courses and in studio workshops; however, just when the group began to sense the nature of dramatic structure time constraints forced us into scrutinizing other story elements. Intensive study of plot has been my focus for over a year.

For me, an ideal plot lab would scrutinize what I've set out above: relevance of plot aspects, and causation, opposition, and resulting tension.

I conceptualize plot as a three-dimensional shape. The idealized shape is a tetrahedron. To test my theory and see how it flew, I posted a rambling description of a three-dimensional representation of plot in other forums. I haven't conveyed the idea very well. Eyes rolled into the backs of heads. Geometery is no more useful to most writers than organic chemisty. I do, however, think it's given me the tool I needed to grasp the intricacies of plot. For what it's worth; the X-axis is causation over elapsed time in a story, time measured in words. The Y-axis is tension, or emotive appeal, and the Z-axis is opposition.

As to characters, settings, and narrative discourse and dialogue, etc., my practice is that if it provides context, furthers causation or opposition, or builds tension; in other words, resonates with the plot, it's necessary. If not, it's superfluous. Since I started this process my stories have been less troublesome. I still painted the previous two stories' plots into inextricable corners, though. My current one has the most solid plot shape I've written to date.

I have no idea how to workshop these kinds of ideas. I've had some luck with some tolerant friends who are willing to brainstorm with me, and my local writers group that about every 4 or 5 meetings (meaning every 2-3 months as we meet every other week) I'm able to ask for and get some good brainstorming help. It's helpful sometimes to even take the primary story problem I'm struggling with and present it to a non-writing friend who might have something in common with the protag. I took a mom story of mine to a mom friend of mine with just a "I'm having trouble figuring out X, here's a one sentence explanation of what's going on. What do you think the X would be?" She gave me a gem that is perfect for the story even though she's not a writer and wouldn't normally read the genre I write in.

But yeah...I share your pain. Reading writing books helps me a lot too. If you haven't done Characters and Viewpoints by OSC, that's a great one. Scene and Sequel by Bickham is good but dense and hard to read. I'm (yes, still) in the middle of Story by McKee and it's excellent. Bird by Bird (Lamott), Plot (Bell?) and Building Fiction (Kercheval) are all books I've read in recent past. Self-editing for Fiction writers (browne and King) is one more that's on my shelf. Anyway, often what happens with those is I get some kind of idea for a way to work on a story and it helps me get through a hump. Then I'll put the writing book aside and work on the story for a while, the next time I hit a hump I'll pick up the writing book again.

It's important to not let this become yet another form of procrastination, though. I find myself doing some of that writerly self-doubt where I say "oh, if only I could finish this book on writing, it would improve my skills so much...I shouldn't write any more until I finish the book." Poppycock. I can write just fine. I'm still learning and will be forever. That's not an excuse not to write!

Oh, and one other suggestion for you - don't have a link handy, but the Snowflake Method (which is out on the web somewhere and probably googleable) has helped me flesh out a plot when all else has failed.

Being an intuitive writer, the method I would prefer is to write the story, and then have help analyzing the plot, why it does or doesn't work, pointing out specific issues that I could then address, and then discuss different options.

I think it is possible to workshop plots before you actually write the story. However, it might be tricky because it's hard to really understand how a story might work until you read a draft. I suppose you could try to workshop your synopsis or plot outline, if you draw one, or simply write up what you know about the story with either specific questions or just a request for general guidance.

What would be really cool, I think, is to set up times to chat. We could even do a group chat with everyone who's read the synopsis or story or whatever. That might make for easier back and forth/ brainstorming.

There is a little of this done when someone posts a query letter for feedback, but it could also be done with a plot synopsis, or plot "fragment" (hence the inclusion in that section).

If you are not sure how I think this can work, please go to the Writing Class section and see how I try to do it for people in the Assignment #1 topic.

This link is to the last page, so you can see what I've tried to do recently.

If that's not the kind of thing you have in mind, Bent Tree, at least I hope it can help.

Thank you, KDW. Your proposal would be helpful, and I have used F&F for similar aproaches in the past. Toby Western has been my hero on such occasions. Alot of members seem weirded by the prospect of critting an outline. I think that it is helpful though, but currently, I need something more reliable and regular. The more I think about it the more helpful I think it could be.

I believe the most illustrative method would be to take a barely realized story idea and explore the process of structuring its plot. I have an invention for a mundane fantasy that I've barely begun developing. The reason I've chosen a mundane fantasy is for its potential resonance with a larger group of forum participants. Perhaps it'll have broader appeal than a military hard science fiction story. I've partially cast the protagonist and the setting and the narrator, but little else.

The protagonist is a divorcée who finds herself dependent on the goodwill of her in-laws. The setting is a swampy marsh country based upon the Chickahominy Marshes in Virginia. The sparse divorce settlement awarded her an abandoned hunter's cottage situated on a half-acre island near the downstream outskirts of the marsh. The narrator is the conspiratorial we of plural second person and is generally disapproving and sometimes outright vengeful in tone. The mundane fantasy premise centers around magical thinking and sympathetic magic. No working title yet. That's about it so far. Conflict and goal are floating around in there somewhere.

Anne, I'm going to email you off-list, perhaps we can help each other informally this week while Benttree is on vacation. Let a schedule or plan shake out after that.

KDW - I'm excited to check out the writing class link. I've dabbled down there before but never at any depth. This might be exactly the right time (always good when you find something right at just the right time. LOL)

In my other projects I have often done this with my Muses (actually people, not voices in my head) they read, they question, sometimes I make them be one of my characters and RPG storylines with them, then keep what I liked.

I think the best way to make real feeling worlds is have someone ask questions, but the trick is not to say "I don't know" but instead to make up the answer on the spot.

The function of this little sub group, I feel, should be to maximize the potency of workshopping. I am certain we all have similar needs, but perhaps the approach might be different for each individual. Anne mentioned that she felt workshopping a plot could be taken as robbing the author of the plot which I can agree with that completely. So I propose; Creating your own format to obtain the help that you need or want.

We are definately working on critical aspects of the story, and I do feel we should set up a concrete schedule that we can all live with to keep us on track. The important dates for me will be: 1. A day we swap synopsis. 2. a day where we can spend 30-45 minutes in real time to discuss and exchange ideas.

I propose we make a four week commitment to workshop four stories. If you don't want to commit to four stories, You could use two weeks for a story, or whatever you are comforatble with, but I had four halfbaked ideas in mind. And as I mentioned, This needs to be tailored to suit the individual needs of the group members. I like odd numbers and the intimacy of small group, so I would like to keep it at three for now. If it proves to be successful, we can share our model with the forum here. Others are encouraged to follow suit and establish their own groups, if there are any others following this thread that desire to do so. It would be good to get imput from other groups if they do emerge.

This is what would be most helpful for me:

Day 1.
Synopshare Day

For me this will entail a synopsis, goals for the story, and a list of questions I would like comment on.

Day 2.
Realtime discussion

Perhaps fifteen minutes each to discuss or brainstorm. This could be anything from working out kinks in logic, motives, plot progression, whatever

Day 3-5or6

Drafting

Day 5 or 6
Draft exchange.

We can see the fruits of our labor via the drafts we produce. If this step is too much we could also just send them to F&F to get feedback. It could be good to crit each others drafts. There is also the risk of being too entrenched in a familiar story. WHat do you think?