Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Books » Childhood Lost

   
Author Topic: Childhood Lost
thecox
Member
Member # 4713

 - posted      Profile for thecox   Email thecox         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm working on an appropriate start for a fiction novel, but not sure if it's a good idea to begin in the middle of the story. Tell me if this engages you and characterizes the MC very well. Thanks.

The most important principle for any insurance agent to remember is: never sell health insurance to a terminal patient. Never sell collision insurance to an alcoholic. Never sell earthquake insurance to home owners on a fault-line. Never sell insurance to people who really need it. Find the customer that will outlast and outlive the rest. Insurance agents make or break their careers on these principles.
The most successful agents, though, have a keen eye for dead men walking.
Through the bottom of my beer glass, I saw the distorted figure of one such dead men walking through the door into that shithole bar. After weeks traveling through the barren Mexican landscape on an ancient, World War II

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited April 15, 2007).]


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sunshine
Member
Member # 3701

 - posted      Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine         Edit/Delete Post 
Hello. I like your writing style, and the story sounds interesting. I don't think you're starting in the middle of the story, as long as you're starting where it needs to begin. We know the daughter's been kidnapped and somehow dad has tracked the jerk to Mexico. My questions are as follows:

1. I keep wanting to understand the point of the insurance lines, and I don't think they strengthen the paragraph. I think if they don't have immediate purpose then chuck them or maybe you can save them for possible use later in the story.

2. If you chuck the insurance lines, you can focus on the bar, the MC, and tweak those lines to give us a broader understanding and a deeper world. A taste of Mexico, perhaps.

3. When you mentioned that the MC's head touched the ceiling when he stood, was that because he was exceptionally tall or because the ceiling was low? I'm 5'9 but I towered over my 4'9 aunt. It's all relative in that respect.


Posts: 90 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
thecox
Member
Member # 4713

 - posted      Profile for thecox   Email thecox         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks sunshine! You just gave me a great idea and I kind of wondered about whether those lines were too much tell and not enough show. You're exactly right that I can work them into the bar scene, maybe describing some of the patrons to give a clearer setting. Thanks for the help!
Posts: 22 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
puppysnot
Member
Member # 5217

 - posted      Profile for puppysnot   Email puppysnot         Edit/Delete Post 

quote:
The most important principle for any insurance agent to remember is: never sell health insurance to a terminal patient. Never sell collision insurance to an alcoholic. Never sell earthquake insurance to home owners on a fault-line. Never sell insurance to people who really need it. Find the customer that will outlast and outlive the rest.Insurance agents make or break their careers on these principles.

All the stuff in the middle is redundant, as is the nest to last sentence.
It would have all the necessary information and get the point across if it read something like:

The most important principle for an insurance agent to remember is, never sell insurance to people who need it. Agents make or break their careers on this principle.
These aren't necessarily good sentences, but they don't have the redundancies.

Is the MC an insurance salesman? If not (or even if so), does being an insurance salesman figure into the story in any way other than the ability to spot a “dead man walking”
------

quote:
After weeks traveling through the barren Mexican landscape on an ancient, World War II motorcycle, I found him. In the worthless town of Santuario del Santo Nino, I found the man who kidnapped my innocent little girl.

Is his means of transport pertinent? Would it change the story or characterization if he were driving a Volvo? If not, then the motorcycle description could be left out.
I definitely get that the MC is not a happy camper and there is nothing in the “barren Mexican landscape” he is going to look upon… fondly, BUT is “worthless” meant to describe the town or show how the MC feels about the town. In either case, there may be a better choice. I, as a reader, can’t picture a town being worthless. He, as the MC, has a strong tie to something in the town (the “dead man walking”), so the town really can’t be worthless to him either.
------

quote:
My stomach felt like a rock tumbler, polishing my heavy stone insides.

I very much liked what that sentence told me.
------

quote:
I stood, dropping my glass to the floor where it shattered. At full height, my head almost grazed the adobe roof. The other patrons stared at my towering figure, further intrigued by the baseball bat I wielded in my free hand.

Maybe it’s the type of thing I shouldn’t let become common knowledge, but I’ve been in a LOT of “shithole” bars in my life. Granted, I’ve never been to this bar, but I can’t think of ANY that I’ve been to where a patron would be allowed through the door with a baseball bat, let alone be allowed to sit and drink while holding it in one hand. If it were to happen, I doubt the patrons would only be “further intrigued”.

He dropped his drink. He’s holding a bat in his free hand. What is in the other hand that makes it necessary to tell me the bat is in the free hand?

Your MC is angry, and I do believe justifiably so. Anger, however, is all I get from the MC. There is nothing to give me a sence of loss or heartbreak.

I have children.
Would I be angry in his situation? Yes.
Would I want to use the bat? YES!
Would I be feeling other things…? yes.

What I’ve read here is enough for me to read a little further. I would, however, need more than just anger and revenge to keep me going, and I would need it fairly quickly.

I hope this is helpfull, it has certainly helped me.
Gordon


[This message has been edited by puppysnot (edited April 15, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by puppysnot (edited April 15, 2007).]


Posts: 13 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kings_falcon
Member
Member # 3261

 - posted      Profile for kings_falcon   Email kings_falcon         Edit/Delete Post 
Try to get to the action faster. I'm not sure what the insurance salesman stuff has to do with the rest.

If you want to keep the insurance stuff, shorten it up and connect it better to the rest. The hook for me wasn't the insurance stuff but the kidnapper, but I missed the kidnapper on the first read because I was wondering about the insurance stuff. Right now the important stuff is getting pushed outside the first 13 because you focus on the insurance for so long.


To answer your questions, whether you are starting in the middle depends on what happens next. This could be a great place to start.

I'm not sure about the characterization. The MC is thinking about a lot of things that don't seem to make sense to me given what he's apparently doing and what's about to happen.

Comments on the 13, if you want them:

quote:

The most important principle for any insurance agent to remember is: never sell health insurance to a terminal patient. Never sell collision insurance to an alcoholic. Never sell earthquake insurance to home owners on a fault-line. Never sell insurance to people who really need it. you say "the most important thing" and then list 4 things. Cut everything except "never sell insurance to people who really need it" and then move to the dead man walking line. Find the customer that will outlast and outlive the rest. Insurance agents make or break their careers on these principles.
The most successful agents, though, have a keen eye for dead men walking.

Through the bottom of my beer glass, I saw the distorted figure of one such dead men walking through the door into that shithole bar. He knows the guy is a dead man because he's going to kill the man. Let me know WHY this man is the walking dead After weeks traveling through the barren Mexican landscape on an ancient, World War II motorcycle you have a comma splice. Do I really need to know it was "weeks," "barrent landscape" and the type of vehicle he's been using right now , I found him. In the worthless town of Santuario del Santo Nino focus on the man not the town's name. Your MC would , I found the man who kidnapped my innocent little girl. My stomach felt like a rock tumbler, polishing my heavy stone insides. nice attempt to beat the cliche. Let me see more into his head.
I still recalled Maryam’s who is this? scent on my nostrils I don't know what he was doing to have her scent on his nostrils and I probably don't. It's an odd phrase : lemon juice and talcum.
I stood, dropping my glass to the floor where it shattered. At full height, my head almost grazed the adobe roof. The other patrons stared at my towering figure, further intrigued by the baseball bat I wielded in my free hand. My problem with this is he'd not going to notice these details. His whole world will be concentrated on the Man. He can stand. He can tighen his grip on the baseball bat. But he's not going to speculate that the "other patrons" were "intrigued." Cut to the chase. Focus only on your MC's thoughts right now


Okay, that was a lot of bold. I could like it and your MC but right now there is too much junk keeping me from the moment.

Good luck.


Posts: 1210 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nitewriter
Member
Member # 3214

 - posted      Profile for nitewriter   Email nitewriter         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with much of what has been said. The first several sentences really do sound like part of a manual for the insurance industry. The guy holding a bat is not a good idea, I think. As has been mentioned, why would they let him in or not question him? It's a sure bet he is not there to play baseball. I think the tension here could be further amped up by his having a gun, only he didn't bring it in - it is outside on his motorcycle - or maybe he does carry, neatly tucked away somewhere under some clothing.
Posts: 409 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KayTi
Member
Member # 5137

 - posted      Profile for KayTi           Edit/Delete Post 
I saw it after the trim, so I don't see the baseball bat, comments are for the first 13 lines show only.

- Most important principle...never sell insurance to ppl who really need it. Ins agents make or break. This is the point of the first paragraph. The rest of it is interesting, but doesn't necessarily add much other than a flavor for writing style and such. In the first 13, not needed, in my opinion. Also, nit, but you start it with "the most important principle" and then go on to list 4 or 5!!
- Presumably you saw the distorted figure of one such dead MAN walking (not one such dead men, which has an agreement problem.)

I think if you trim the first paragraph, you can get to action more quickly, which is what seems to come out of critiques here an awful lot, and as a reader is something I somewhat expect early in a story.


Posts: 1911 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sleepn247
Member
Member # 5312

 - posted      Profile for sleepn247   Email sleepn247         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not too convinced that he is an insurance salesman (Or if you didn't intend him to be, then it comes across that way to me). I just can't see an insurance salesman talk to himself (or anybody else) that way.

Seems to me you're trying to make him sound more like a private eye or something. If so, you could say something like, my insurance agent told me the most important thing you need to remember is never sell insurance to somebody who needs it.


Posts: 38 | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
Without kings_falcon, I wouldn't have been able to read everything, because KDW edited it. Thanks kings_falcon, because the sad part is KDW edited-out the REAL story. <shrug> Such is life.

My take:

quote:

[The first two sentences could easily be combined:] I found the man who kidnapped my little girl,[ my baby, in a worthless town called Santuario del Santo Nino. My stomach felt like a rock tumbler, polishing my heavy stone insides. [I could kill him. Right then and there, I could strangle him to death on that filthy floor.]
I still recalled Maryam’s [Who is Maryam? Is Maryam his daughter? Or, is their another reason -- like he's an alien or werewolf -- for the scent to be mentioned and distinguished?] scent on my nostrils: lemon juice and talcum.
I stood, dropping my glass to the floor where it shattered.[I dropped my glass on the floor and it shattered.That would be enough to draw some attention. There's no music, conversation, rowdy customers -- lol, are you sure this bar is in Mexico?] At full height, my head almost grazed the adobe roof.[How about: When I stood, I ducked. The ceiling was a little low for me.] The other patrons stared[. needed?-->at my towering figure, further intrigued by the baseball bat I wielded in my free hand. Don't they have baseball caps in Mexico? Is it threatening to hold one in such a way? Why don't you tell us more about what he's thinking or feeling, or show us what the kidnapper is doing -- surely he noticed the protagonist, too?]


[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 16, 2007).]


Posts: 3687 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrsBrown
Member
Member # 5195

 - posted      Profile for MrsBrown   Email MrsBrown         Edit/Delete Post 
Quote: "The most successful agents, though, have a keen eye for dead men walking.
Through the bottom of my beer glass, I saw the distorted figure of one such dead men walking..."

This set me up to expect that this particular agent has a psychic knack, for seeing into the life expectancy of potential customers, or to see when a person's (any person's) death is imminent. That idea hooked me. I didn't see the follow-on lines about the kidnapper, but it seems I might have felt a bit yanked aside by that, into an unexpected direction.


Posts: 785 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ZellieBerraine
Member
Member # 5492

 - posted      Profile for ZellieBerraine           Edit/Delete Post 
"The most important principle for any insurance agent to remember is: never sell health insurance to a terminal patient. Never sell collision insurance to an alcoholic. Never sell earthquake insurance to home owners on a fault-line. Never sell insurance to people who really need it. Find the customer that will outlast and outlive the rest. Insurance agents make or break their careers on these principles.
The most successful agents, though, have a keen eye for dead men walking.
Through the bottom of my beer glass, I saw the distorted figure of one such dead men walking through the door into that shithole bar. After weeks traveling through the barren Mexican landscape on an ancient, World War II "

Use a word more specific and unique than "important"...important is vague.

I LOVE that it's set up in principles. It's very catchy. I have no interest in sales, insurance, business, or anything but you've got me hooked. I like the specifics of not just 'a sick person' but a TERMINAL patient, not just a disaster but an EARTHQUAKE, etc

I also really like dead man walking / walking into the bar. Clever


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2