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Author Topic: 13 lines
palmon
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I originally posted this in the wrong spot. So much for a great first impression.
---
SF novel
-----------


Like avenging wraiths, the fog-draped StarScout team stormed through the cave’s craggy entrance into its dusky anteroom. With quick slaps shoulder lights snapped on as they swung their laz-guns right and left. Crisp calls of “Clear! Clear! Clear!“ came from each scout as it became evident the cave was empty.
StarScout Team Leader McCarel unlimbered his lithe frame and in rapid succession directed, “Gamain, put Polen down over there. Singh, cover the entrance. Talrath - medico.“ McCarel to turn toward the team’s SciTech who feverishly tapped on his LifeSensor. “Peller!“ McCarel angrily ordered, “Take your LS and do a sweep further in, I don’t want any nasty surprises coming at us from the back door!”
Peller opened his mouth, then stopped, an odd, strange look on


[This message has been edited by palmon (edited August 30, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited August 30, 2007).]


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darklight
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Hi Palmon, welcome to Hatrack.

First off, I'd like to say you could have posted an extra three lines, you have only ten here.


quote:
Like avenging wraiths, [I think the story should start here, I don't like the first few words] the fog-draped StarScout team stormed through the cave’s craggy entrance into its dusky anteroom. With quick slaps, shoulder lights snapped on as they swung [their - delete] laz-guns right and left.
Crisp calls of “Clear! Clear! Clear!“ came from each scout as it became evident the cave was empty.

StarScout [we already know its a StarSCout team, so team leader would do just fine here] Team Leader McCarel unlimbered his lithe [I'm a little confused as to what you mean here]and in rapid succession directed, “Gamain, put Polen down over there. Singh, cover the entrance. Talrath - medico.“ McCarel to turn toward the team’s SciTech who feverishly tapped on his LifeSensor. “Peller!“ McCarel [ suggest delete the adverb - angrily] ordered,


Hope my comments help, and if you want someone to look over a few pages, I'll be happy to.

[This message has been edited by darklight (edited August 30, 2007).]


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Brendan
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Hi Palmon, and welcome. This place tends to be fairly honest about what they see, so be prepared for that. Have a read of some other critiques on these boards, and be prepared for useful comments from people that don't like your writing (and the occasional one that does). (It's not that they really don't like your writing, its that they are wanting you to improve your writing - the ones that really don't like it wont bother telling you.)

For me, you first 13 shows a number of common mistakes that beginning and intermediate writers do - they believe their English teacher and think more is good. Less is more.

Just about every noun has an adjective with it. This is good only if you think every noun is as important as each other. By important, I mean important to the story - the reader can only hold so much in his head. If he loads up on knowing the cave is craggy, the anteroom is dusky and, not only is the Starscout team draped, it is draped with fog, he will miss the important clues to what is going on. Since not every noun is important, it would help to cut the less important adjectives.

Even more important is the adverbs. Adverbs are used judiciously (i.e. rarely, but when they are used, make them count) in science fiction, especially when what you are describing is how someone talks. This is a science fiction issue, as some other genres may be a bit more loose on this.

Verb choice is also an issue. Unlimbered is, well, clunky, and makes me think of a gawky arangatang. However, the other verbs seemed fine.

Finally, simile is rarely used - metaphore is far stronger, but often neither is needed.

Having tidied up these, then it would be easier to look at the story being told. Keep thinking, what do I NEED to say, and leave it at that.

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited August 30, 2007).]


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Pisatel
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What I like about it is that it grabs me and pulls me into action right away. It sounds like a rescue mission, but I'd continue reading to see what they are up to.
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palmon
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Wow. Thank you. You guys are good. I went back and added three lines.

[This message has been edited by palmon (edited August 30, 2007).]


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palmon
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"Just about every noun has an adjective with it. This is good only if you think every noun is as important as each other."

I 'hear' what you are saying. In the 13 sentence, there are descriptions that are really important to the story - but they get lost because everything is described. "odd, strange look on his narrow, swarthy face as he tightly gripped" probably does not stand out any more than "his lithe frame", even though I want you to remember the odd look and the tightly held LS. I'm guessing the "narrow, swarthy face" takes away the import of the 'odd look'.

DarkLight, how many pages would you like?


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darklight
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Send me about 10,000 words, I should be able to get something back to you in a few days.


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palmon
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Sent.
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annepin
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I originally posted this in the wrong spot.

yeah, don't let it happen again! grrr! ^0^

I like the imagery here and the military action. But i'd want to know pretty quickly what was going on, and to be settled in someone's p.o.v. You start out in omniscient, which is fine, I think, for the first para, and then it feels as if you're setting into McCarel's. Obviously, the next paras would make it clear.

I tend to agree about the adverbs and adjectives. It makes the writing thick and slow to wade through. Most of the time you can find a verb that will do the work of the adverb: i.e. "ran quickly" becomes "sprinted" or "bolted". A lot of times the adjectives can just be extra fat, offering nothing--like "most perfect"--well, perfect is already an ultimate quality, so "most", another ultimate, adds nothing. If you take out all the unnecessary fluff, the adjectives and adverbs you _do_include have that much more impact and meaning.

Also, generally I find it works better to let the tone and voice of the dialogue carry the weight of any modifiers you might need. I.e., instead of saying, "Go away," Joseph said angrily, You could say something like, "Get lost," or "F*** off!" Joseph said. You get the picture. If it's not in your character to say that, then you can usually get it across through an action or quality of the character: Joseph's fist clenched. "Go away," he said. The result is a richer picture for the reader because they are given a physical characteristic or quality to hang on to, rather than just told someone is acting angrily. Acting angrily really says little--people can act angrily in a lot of different ways. But what the reader wants to know is how _Joseph_ acts angrily.

A few nitpicks:

Like avenging wraiths, the fog-draped StarScout team stormed through the cave’s craggy entrance into its dusky anteroom. With quick slaps shoulder lights snapped on as they swung their laz-guns right and left. Grammatically, the "they" in the second part of the sentence would refer to the shoulder lights-, since that's the closest subject-but the shoulder lights aren't swinging their guns, are they?
Crisp calls of “Clear! Clear! Clear!“ came from each scout as it became evident the cave was empty.
StarScout Team Leader McCarel unlimbered his lithe frame yeah, I'm not sure what "unlimbering" a frame means. And where was he in relation to the other scouts? and in rapid succession directed I think you could cut out "in rapid succession directed". The tone is clear from the context, as in the fact that he's directing people., “Gamain, put Polen down over there. Singh, cover the entrance. Talrath - medico.“ McCarel to turn toward the team’s SciTech who feverishly tapped on his LifeSensor. “Peller!“ McCarel angrily ordered Again, we get that he's ordering people, and we can see that he's angry by his dialogue., “Take your LS and do a sweep further in, I don’t want any nasty surprises coming at us from the back door!”
Peller opened his mouth, then stopped, an odd, strange look on his narrow, swarthy face as he tightly gripped you can safely cut tightly, i think--the verb gripped implies itthe LifeSensor. The ultrasensitive device that

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited August 30, 2007).]


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InarticulateBabbler
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Hi, and welcome to Hatrack.

quote:

I originally posted this in the wrong spot. So much for a great first impression.


Everyone makes mistakes. It means you're Human. Besides, if you didn't make mistakes, you wouldn't need us. (Not that you'll think you need us at all, really.)

As for your prose, My take:

quote:

Like avenging[Avenging what?] wraiths, the fog-draped[can't picture fog-draped; fog-shrouded I can accept.] StarScout[<--Name seems ambiguous and contrived, generic. Not to mention, there is racial implications if you initialize: "SS". Scout team seems adequate.] team stormed through the cave’s craggy entrance into its dusky anteroom. With quick slaps shoulder lights snapped on as they swung their laz-guns right and left.[The army is issuing guns that can look around corners. I think, in the future, they'd have advanced this technology to the point of not sweeping their weapons back and forth. Especially whn their a unit.] [Crisp calls of<--Either drop this, or only have one of these-->“Clear! Clear! Clear!“] came from each scout as it became evident the cave was empty.
[Dleted] [Team Leader<--If this is a military squad, he would have a rank.] McCarel [unlimbered his lithe frame and in rapid succession directed<--Suggest replacing this with said], “Gamain, put Polen down over there[Over where? Cinematic, and we can't see anything.]. Singh, cover the entrance. [Talrath - medico.<--Huh?]“ McCarel to turn toward the team’s SciTech who feverishly tapped on his LifeSensor. “Peller!“ McCarel angrily ordered, “Take your LS and do a sweep further in, I don’t want any nasty surprises coming at us from the back door!”
Peller opened his mouth, then stopped, an [odd, strange<--Redundant.] look on his narrow, swarthy face as he tightly gripped the LifeSensor. [The ultrasensitive device that<--You've mentioned the device twice. Now's not the time to explain it with info-dump, just show us what it does. AND You've made like Peller has picked something up. This is what you shoukld be exposing. This is the hook.]

There is a good tone here. You obviously have a vivid imagination. That's good. It appears you know where your going. It would be nice if we knew, too. Remember, we don't have the advantage that you do, all we know is what your exposition reveals.

You have a case of adverbitis (<--phrase coined by KayTi, who tells us she's a chronic sufferer, too). eliminate as many of the "ly" words as you can. If you read it out loud, you'll see what we're saying. They fumble the (mental) pace, weaken the verbs, and slow the exposition and story-progression down.

My first time reading through this, I thought the mist-shrouded StarScouts were spacecraft with a cloaking device, so it stopped me when you mentioned the dusky anteroom. When I pushed on, I felt that I had to beat my way through barbed, flowery prose that wasn't headed for any clearing.

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited August 31, 2007).]


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annepin
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InarticulateBabbler:

Not to mention, there is racial implications if you initialize: "SS". Scout team seems adequate.

I don't see it... what are you referring to?


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InarticulateBabbler
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Two Words: The Nazis.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited August 30, 2007).]


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annepin
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Oh right... sorry. For some reason my brain got stuck on "Secret Service" and couldn't get past it.
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palmon
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Let's take "tightly gripped". Gripped is more intense than held, and in adrenalin-filled situation, gripped seems pretty much what someone would do. But what if you wanted to imply that it was being gripped much more intensely - more than what one would think was appropriate?
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InarticulateBabbler
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It depends on the sentence:

The gun was so tightly gripped that his fingers turned white and the pump's wood creaked.

could easily become:

His white-knuckled grip made the wooden pump creak.
The second sentence is less passive, too.

Does it convey the same image? What do you think?

Not perfect, by any means, but an example.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited August 30, 2007).]


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Wolfe_boy
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The gun was so tightly gripped that his fingers turned white and the pump's wood creaked.

The other problem with this is that the tightly modifies the gun's grip, not the finger's grip, so whatever fabric or material compoese the grip of the gun is so tight that his fingers became white, etc.

My only additional comment to everyone elses comments (though I can't stress enough the focus on no adverbs unless absolutely necessary) would be to work on your transitions between narrative and dialogue. When McCarel starts speaking, the transition is awkward. ...and in rapid succession directed "Gaiman..." could be much more elegant without the first five words. Maybe something like this?

StarScout Team Leader McCarel unlimbered his lithe frame (whatever this means). “Gamain," he barked, surveying his team, "put Polen down over there. Singh, cover the entrance. Talrath - medico.“

I only mention this because, if it happened here, other things like it are probably happening elsewhere in your MS. Good practice for this is to simply read good dialogue and try to slow down to the point where constructions like dialigue attribution are no longer invisible.

Jayson Merryfield


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annepin
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But what if you wanted to imply that it was being gripped much more intensely - more than what one would think was appropriate?

As IB pointed out, you could show it in context (an example of showing, not telling). By showing us the white knuckles, or the aching fingers, you do a lot more than just telling us the grip was tight.

Also, I think it might be useful to consider what you want to convey. You say it's because you want to convey he's holding the gun more tightly than warranted by the situation. But why? To show that he's more scared than one might expect? Or that he has more at stake than what the reader might expect? Or that he really loves the gun? Or because he knows he's clumsy, or has sweaty hands, and drops things all the times? The adverb "tightly" is imprecise enough to allow all of these possibilities. Not that you necessarily have to narrow it down, but adverbs are a weak way to go, and I think being precise and specific usually makes writing better. When prose is so thick with adverbs, most readers just pass right over them without registering them. It's like listening to five different songs at once--the nuance of one chord is lost. If "tightly" is the _only_ adverb/ adjective on the page, then maybe, maybe it would stand out.

But I would still argue, ultimately, who really cares the degree of tightness of his gun? Is gripping it tightly really that much more important than his just gripping it? If it's tension you want to convey, it might be more important that we know his blood was pounding, sweat dripped down his forehead, and he suddenly found himself praying to a god he didn't even realize he believed in. Because all of these things convey tension, but tell us more about the character, too.

I would suggest playing around with it. Take out all the adverbs and adjectives. Change some of the verbs to convey emotion or degree of intensity. Then start adding some adverbs and adjectives in, but ask yourself, what am I trying to convey here? Would this objective be better served with an action or thought? I think you'll find you'll need fewer that you thought, and your prose will be leaner and pack more of a punch.

Sorry if this is sounding lecture-y. I try to avoid being this way as much as possible, but sometimes it's hard. I'm not a big advocate of "rules", but avoiding adverbs and adjectives, I think, is not a rule but a good guideline because it makes your writing better.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited August 30, 2007).]


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meg.stout
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Now that I have been chasened by she who watches all, I'll merely tell you which things in each section irritated me and suggest what I would change.

But first, my main impression is that you are so enamored of what your story would look like on a movie screen that you have forgotten that books exist to tell us about people.

The whole limber and lithe thing - what if the most commercially viable actor when your movie gets made is a pudge?

If McCarel isn't the right viewpoint character, I don't know who is. Maybe Peller, but it looks like you are going to have him turn to bug snot in a sentence or two (or maybe that is McCarel who is going to snuff).

The "LS" thing really irritated me. Especially since when I searched to find out what LS meant, it is a word pair that only has three syllables (Life Sensor).

I'm intrigued by the setup, though. Make it about the people and I'll care to read on. Your basic setup reminds me of Lois McMaster Bujold's "Miles Vorkosigan" books.

quote:
Like avenging wraiths, the fog-draped StarScout team stormed through the cave’s craggy entrance into its dusky anteroom.

I suggest you start here with McCarel directing his team into the cave. If the fog is a critical, mention that, even bring in the wraith business if you want.

quote:
With quick slaps shoulder lights snapped on as they swung their laz-guns right and left. Crisp calls of “Clear! Clear! Clear!“ came from each scout as it became evident the cave was empty.

Why bother with the slapping? Seems an odd techno gadget, that makes you take your hand off your weapon to activate. Not clear what the purpose is. I'll trust you that the shoulder lights are useful, though. Sure would look cool in a movie.

quote:
StarScout Team Leader McCarel unlimbered his lithe frame and in rapid succession directed, “Gamain, put Polen down over there. Singh, cover the entrance. Talrath - medico.“

I've already mentioned the limber/lithe thing.

quote:
McCarel to turn toward the team’s SciTech who feverishly tapped on his LifeSensor. “Peller!“ McCarel angrily ordered, “Take your LS and do a sweep further in, I don’t want any nasty surprises coming at us from the back door!”
Peller opened his mouth, then stopped, an odd, strange look on

Explain what the tapping is about. I presumed it was because the Life Sensor is broken. Give the reason for McCarel's anger - does he suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy (sudden, unprovoked, uncontrolled anger) or what specifically is it about Peller's behavior that is causing anxiety. I see him saying an internal curse word, myself, as he realizes it is broken (if it is).

[This message has been edited by meg.stout (edited August 31, 2007).]


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annepin
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... Okay, I'm struggling with this. I remember coming across an old adage of critiquing.. don't remember if was here or at critters.org, but it seemed like a good thing so I'd like to bring it up here: critique the work, not the author.



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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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I guess I missed where people were critiquing the author, but I appreciate your posting a reminder not to do that, annepin.

It's okay for critiquers to tell the author what the critiquer thought while reading the work, but it can be easy to slip into what sounds like psychoanalysis of the author's intentions in the story, and that isn't particularly helpful.

So, thanks, again, annepin.


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meg.stout
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annepin wrote:
quote:
critique the work, not the author.

In case I inspired that reminder, I'll not use "you" and make it clear that I mean the piece in future.

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palmon
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If my 13 lines had been perfect, I would not have posted them. I needed feedback and that is what I got. Thank you all.
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Brendan
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Good luck in your rewrite, Palmon
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palmon
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I know ya'all don't like "avenging wraiths", but if you could just ignore that for a moment. What do you think of this?
______________

Like avenging wraiths, the fog-draped StarScout team stormed through the cave’s craggy entrance into its dusky anteroom. Quick slaps at torso packs snapped on shoulder lights as StarScout Captain McCarel swung his laz-gun in a slow arc in front of him and took several steps forward. Slowly he raised his lithe, medium-build body from a low crouch to full height. Perspiration poured down his narrow, tanned face which normally held a confident look but right now displayed the look of man grappling with a very worrisome situation. For just a moment, a tiny sphere of sweat hung from his small nose and then dropped silently to explode in the sandy floor, creating a miniature crater.
The cave’s fissured granite walls muffled the scout’s staccato

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited September 05, 2007).]


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darklight
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quote:
I know ya'all don't like "avenging wraiths", but if you could just ignore that for a moment

I know you want us to ignore it, but there are a couple of things.

1. If only one person out of six disliked it, then I would say, that's just one person's opinion, ignore it, but if six people out of six dislike it, maybe they have a point.

2. Avenging wraiths says to me, anger, hatred, murderous desires, and what I know of the story, these people are running for their lives, from a huge winged creature with an injured man.

To the thirteen:

MacCarel it taking step forward, then he's raising from a crouch, but there's no indication that he crouched down in the first place.

You don't need the silently in: a tiny sphere of sweat hung from his small nose and then dropped silently. Sweat drops silently so its a given.

I'm not sure 'carefully scanned' is possible. Scanned says to me, a quick look around.

I hope I haven't over stepped the mark with the comments on avenging wraiths; I'd aprecaite anyone telling me if I have.

Hope these comments help you.


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palmon
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I should explain this 'rewrite'. It's not. The other was. I am just curious if this version is any better. In the 'rewrite', those avenging wreaths are history. (When I read it out loud, I mispronounced "wraith" into "wreath", which gives a whole different visual) If it is better, it's a new starting point, if not, well, rats.

[This message has been edited by palmon (edited September 02, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by palmon (edited September 02, 2007).]


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DebbieKW
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palmon,

In your first post, you have a very quick pace that gives the reader a nice sense of the urgency of the situation. In the second version, you have them rush in and then everything sllloooowwwssss down. I realize that you were trying to create tension, but, in my opinion, you spend so much time on the minutia of the situation (like the drop of sweat) that you actual lose the tension and urgency that you're trying to create.

Just my opinion. I hope this helps.


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palmon
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It does. Thanks.
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palmon
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I just wanted to thank you all again. The rewrite is finished and I am very pleased with it.
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