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Author Topic: Magic, Rust and Flesh (Around 26k novella)
Merlion-Emrys
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This is a fantasy piece, with both some classic and lots of urban/industrial aspects. Be warned, there is a bit of violence and blood, and some...icky gooey stuff, but its not to to bad. Right now its around 26k words, haven't done much with it for a while. This is the first 13 of the prologue..comments on that welcome, as well as offers to read whatever size chunks anyone might care for.

A couple notes: Ed is not going to be the main character. I'd especially like someone to even read just the whole prologue and the first chapter even, because theres a jump from urban in the prologue to more high fantasy in chapter one, and I want to see if it works.

Ed was happy to have found a place to sleep, even if it was a little creepy and a lot messy. Of course just about everywhere in the industrial district was like that; old, abandoned, falling apart.
A lot like Ed himself really. It was fitting then, he supposed, that he should be here.
Of course, he hadn’t always been this way. He had once had a good job as a supervisor in a factory much like this one had once been. He had made good money, had a family, a house, and all the rest.
He remembered watching the line workers assembling parts, all in a row as they slid down the conveyor belt. They all looked the same from the back.


[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited April 17, 2008).]


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Wolfe_boy
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quote:
Ed was happy to have found a place to sleep, even if it was a little creepy and a lot messy.(1) Of course just about everywhere in the industrial district was like that; old, abandoned, falling apart.
A lot like Ed himself really. It was fitting then, he supposed, that he should be here.
Of course, he hadn’t always been this way. He had once had a good job as a supervisor in a factory much like this one had once been. (2) He had made good money, had a family, a house, and all the rest.
He remembered watching the line workers assembling parts, all in a row as they slid down the conveyor belt. They all looked the same from the back. (3)
He used to commute from his home in the suburbs of the great city (4), past all the shining buildings and shops and businesses, into the industrial district.

You're about three lines too long. Kathleen shall come henceforth and trimmeth down.

1. This just sounds strange to me. A lot messy? Very informal, which is fine, but perhaps a little too informal for the narrator.

2. You haven't told us anything about the factory Ed is currently in (beyond it is creepy and messy), so how are we going to compare what it used to be to the factory he used to work in? I think it's a given that at some point in their existence, both factories were clean and productive. This could be nixed to save space - it's communicating something we don't really need to know.

3. You're getting a little indefinite here. Are the workers all in a line, or the parts they're assembling? Do the parts look the same from behind, or the workers?

4. The great city? What makes this city so great that you've singled it out? Or, perhaps is this a specific nickname of the city, kind of like the Big Apple? No one says they're going to the big apple, because everyone says they're going to the Big Apple. Saavy?

Well, you seem to be quite happy with telling in your pieces, and at this point I think I've mentioned show not tell four or five times already, so this will be my last. Were you to show us this scene from Ed's POV, it would be far more interesting that the current block of narration we're receiving. That being said, you seem to be happy with telling, so we'll just go ahead with that.

This is the prologue? Are you starting the story proper in the prologue, or is this just background into the world? A novel should be able to stand on its own without a prologue, since if the prologue is integral to the book, the information in it should be contained in the first chapter. This can make critiquing a prologue difficult, since nothing really takes place in it that is key to the plot. Of course, for a novel not much happens in the first thirteen plot-wise anyways, so I guess on balance it's just fine.

If I was an editor and this landed on my desk, I would probably read a few more pages. I'm a sucker for post apocalyptic/crumbling dystopia works, and I'm getting the feeling that's the genre this would fit into. You've got the setting down to a certain degree, relying on genre tropes (decaying industrial area, man down on his luck having lost everything) to guide the reader, which is effective. I'd be reading with a sceptical eye, however, since it's plain the author isn't trying to draw me into this world, he's merely explaining it to me, and if I'm going to be expected to stick with this book for an extended period of time, I would need to experience things from an awful lot closer.

Jayson Merryfield


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Merlion-Emrys
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Ahhh...this is good :-) I apreciate everyones efforts on all levels, but its nice when people seem to get the intent and style, and come from that perspective.


quote:
Well, you seem to be quite happy with telling in your pieces, and at this point I think I've mentioned show not tell four or five times already, so this will be my last. Were you to show us this scene from Ed's POV, it would be far more interesting that the current block of narration we're receiving. That being said, you seem to be happy with telling, so we'll just go ahead with that.

Yea, I actually think of myself as a storyteller, first and foremost, whose mode happens to be writing. I think the relevence of the "show don't tell" rule depends a lot on the style and nature of the story.


However, I do find it interesting that so many here say what you've said, but more or less the one comment I get from everyone whose read my (whole) stories is how descreptive my style is. Several people have told me I'm TOO descreptive, so maybe I've started going to far the other way. And I think I tend to tell the begining and show the rest.


quote:
You're getting a little indefinite here. Are the workers all in a line, or the parts they're assembling? Do the parts look the same from behind, or the workers?


For what I'm going for, either or both works quite well. I didn't intend it to confuse the two, but if it does it actually fits.

I'm using great in its literal sense...big.


I think you are right though, in this case a little more descreption of the factory is probably in order.

quote:
This is the prologue? Are you starting the story proper in the prologue, or is this just background into the world? A novel should be able to stand on its own without a prologue, since if the prologue is integral to the book, the information in it should be contained in the first chapter. This can make critiquing a prologue difficult, since nothing really takes place in it that is key to the plot. Of course, for a novel not much happens in the first thirteen plot-wise anyways, so I guess on balance it's just fine.


The prologue and the rest are pretty closely woven, but it isnt crucial...to some extent, its one big hook. The events of the prologue are also later expounded on from another point of view.

quote:
If I was an editor and this landed on my desk, I would probably read a few more pages. I'm a sucker for post apocalyptic/crumbling dystopia works, and I'm getting the feeling that's the genre this would fit into. You've got the setting down to a certain degree, relying on genre tropes (decaying industrial area, man down on his luck having lost everything) to guide the reader, which is effective


Its not exactly post apocalyptic in the traditional sense...the reasons and purpose behind the decaying industrial stuff is a little different. The ideas of the story have more to do with balance between different factors.

If you search the name Simon Logan you'll see one of this stories big influences...be warned though its definitely adult content.


You've given me some things to think about and confirmed what I was already thinking, thanks a lot!


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Unwritten
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Aha! Rust zombies! I get it now! How's this one coming?

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MrsBrown
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Interesting premise. I think you posted this one before? This version seems more appealing to me.

My Take with cut stuff marked as []

quote:
Ed felt relieved to find a place to sleep, even if it was messy and a little creepy []. [] Just about everywhere in the industrial district was [] old, abandoned, falling apart.

A lot like Ed himself, really. He supposed it was fitting [] that he should be here.
[] He had once had a good job as a supervisor in a clean, productive factory []. He missed his family, the money, [] the house, and all the rest. The huge abandoned factory reminded Ed of the rows of []line workers, assembling parts [] sliding down the conveyor belts--the uniformed employees all looked the same from the back.


This still feels too distant to me.
I hope your next paragraph will be back in Ed’s present situation.
quote:
quote: You're getting a little indefinite here. Are the workers all in a line, or the parts they're assembling? Do the parts look the same from behind, or the workers?

For what I'm going for, either or both works quite well. I didn't intend it to confuse the two, but if it does it actually fits.



IMHO, I don’t think that worked at all. I had to stop and think about it, which is annoying.

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited May 21, 2008).]


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Merlion-Emrys
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quote:
Aha! Rust zombies! I get it now! How's this one coming?


Its long since finished, but never been critiqued.


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Merlion-Emrys
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quote:
Interesting premise. I think you posted this one before? This version seems more appealing to me.


LOL...I posted it some time ago and it got like no replies. I havent changed it...it just got bumped.


quote:
He had once had a good job as a supervisor in a clean, productive factory


It would never have been clean.


quote:
This still feels too distant to me.
I hope your next paragraph will be back in Ed’s present situation.


It's meant to be distant. The prologue anyway...much of the rest of it is less so.


Anyone interested in reading a chunk? the whole novella is about 26k

quote:
IMHO, I don’t think that worked at all. I had to stop and think about it, which is annoying.


The idea is, if you can't tell whether the people or the machines are being refered to, thats ok...because part of the point of the story is that the two are becoming indistinguishable.

[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited May 21, 2008).]


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MrsBrown
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Funny! I think the setting is similar to another 13 lines I read a while back. Anywho...

I can put up with a distant prologue if its not too long. Heck, my first 13-lines post was extremely cinimatic--I may still be doing it without realizing. Well, rough draft first and practice crits, so I can learn to crit myself later...

quote:
He remembered watching the line workers assembling parts, all in a row as they slid down the conveyor belt. They all looked the same from the back.
The problem I have is that the language sounds ambiguous, like there's an error in there, where either the author made a word-choice mistake or I'm not reading it right. It pulls me away from the story, trying to figure out what the words are supposed to mean--and that makes me lose interest. Let me suggest something clearer that shows the blend of man and machine:

He remembered how the line workers moved in unison with the robots, employees and machinery all programmed to execute their specialized tasks with perfect efficiency. The uniforms were the same dull gray as the metal. Every face wore an identical mask of concentrated boredom, focused on the parts sliding by on the conveyer belts.

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited May 21, 2008).]


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Merlion-Emrys
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quote:
I can put up with a distant prologue if its not too long. Heck, my first 13-lines post was extremely cinimatic--I may still be doing it without realizing. Well, rough draft first and practice crits, so I can learn to crit myself later...


I don't really have a problem with distance, as a reader, if thats part of the nature of the story. My "rusty" stories tend to be like that. I realize thats not going to appeal to everyone.

quote:
The problem I have is that the language sounds ambiguous, like there's an error in there, where either the author made a word-choice mistake or I'm not reading it right. It pulls me away from the story, trying to figure out what the words are supposed to mean--and that makes me lose interest. Let me suggest something clearer that shows the blend of man and machine:


Hmm. I suppose I could see where it could be distracting, depending upon how your aproaching it. But I honestly rather like the ambiguity.


I would maybe reorder it like this

He remembered watching the line workers assembling rows of parts as they slid down the conveyor belt. They all looked the same from the back.


The first part is, I think, clearer. But the last bit is still somewhat (intentionally) ambiguous. Of course I could also add something like "Both the workers and the parts."


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