posted
This is the first 13 lines of the Prologue for my Shadow novel. After the prologue I have a Chapter Zero that gives snapshots of the main character as he grows up. Then the main body starts with Chapter One. The prologue has been the hard part of the book. I have just over 106,000 words written and plan to cut off at around 140,000.
The kingdom of Brallond had stood, untroubled and at peace for over 2000 years. But now, disturbing prophecies about a certain "Son of Mousie" were coming out of the Dreamers' Citadel. They said that he would bring the kingdom to ruin, and at the same time said that he would usher in peace for another 2000 years. The barbarians that lived north of Brallond were stirring and gathering in ever larger tribes. The giants living in the frozen mountains to the north were starting to conduct raids more frequently. The giants in the volcanic southwestern reaches were also starting to attack more often and their raids were becoming more organized than ever before. Very recently, an important guard tower complex had been utterly destroyed. Bandits stalked the main highways connecting the cities, and the Royal Army seemed
[This message has been edited by Dragonlord67 (edited March 15, 2010).]
[This message has been edited by Dragonlord67 (edited March 15, 2010).]
posted
Son of Mousie?? This threw me. What this sounds like is a blurb from the back of a book, which could work if it's conveying information we need to know at the outset. Personally, I'd rather see this done then massive infodumps at the beginning of the story proper (something I have a little trouble with myself). But Son of Mousie??
But now, disturbing prophecies about a certain "Son of Mousie" were coming out of the Dreamers' Citadel. They said that he would bring the kingdom to ruin, and at the same time said that he would usher in peace for another 2000 years.
Instead of taking this seriously, I couldn't get the image of a little cartoonish mouse out of my head. Kind of ruined it for me. This may all make sense in context, but as the beginning of the book I fear it will put others off as well. Just MHO.
Looking at it from your viewpoint, I understand what you are saying. Mousie is the nickname of my MC's mother. He finds out in chapter 2 that he is the 'Son of Mousie' and that his father had given the nickname to his mother.
I'm not sure what to use there, since the prologue was the hardest thing for me to write.
posted
I stopped when I got to "Son of Mousie," sorry. Couldn't help myself. I walked away from this one for awhile, then came back and read through. I make the following observations:
1) don't think the comma is necessary between "...stood, untroubled..." Neither is one needed between "now, disturbing" so you may want to review rules about commas.
2)
quote:...at the same time said that...
Does this imply the prophecy said two things at the same time, or that ruin and peace would come at the same time?
3) "that lived" should read "who lived"
4) think you can leave out "in ever larger tribes" and the sentence (and point) will work fine.
5)
quote:The giants living in the frozen mountains to the north
shouldn't this read "..further north" since you've previously established that the barabarians live north of Brallond?
6)
quote:starting to conduct raids more frequently
They were starting, that is preparing to raid, more frequently or actually raiding more frequently?
7)
quote:The giants in the volcanic southwestern reaches were also starting to attack more often and their raids were becoming more organized than ever before.
Except for the fact that these giants inhabit the "volcanic southwestern reaches" it uses many of the same phrases and words as the previous giants episode. Also, the southwestern reaches of where? Brallond within or without? Keep in mind, too, that "becoming more organized than ever before" are a lot of words saying the same thing.
8)
quote:Very recently, an important guard tower complex had been utterly destroyed.
This sentence has some of the word don'ts I've learned of: Very and utterly.
I agree with anderson, this sounds too much like a blurb or synopsis. Don't get me wrong it's good that you have a handle on the setting of your tale. Obviously you have a story to tell here, only there is nothing that entices me to read on, sorry.
I don't know about your choice of a Chapter 0, somehow, I don't think that one will fly. To have a prologue, then a Chapter 0, before the reader gets to Chapter 1 and the story itself is asking a lot of someone.
posted
Ok, maybe I should drop the prologue(blurb) altogether, and make the chapter 0 my prologue.
Now the question is: How long should a prologue be? Min-max
The prophecy is a forked, or either/or prophecy. I know Terry Goodkind did a great job with them, but since I am not at his caliber ATM(or maybe ever), it came out strange. That was why I had prefaced it with 'disturbing'. lol
I use the prophecies fairly sparingly in the book, though.
[This message has been edited by Dragonlord67 (edited March 15, 2010).]
posted
It varies - there's no hard and fast rule. The right length is the one that works best for your particular story. :/
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The young nameless boy paused and looked out at the crowd from the shadows. Amazingly not one person passing by could see him. He didn't know why, only that he was almost invisible. He was only 4 or 5 years old and had no idea who his parents were. He could only vaguely remember the boy's home he had been in until his escape during the MidWinter Festival. Since then he had stayed with an old beggar man. That is, until the man had begged from the wrong person and was killed where he had kneeled. Now he was on his own. He owned nothing but a pair of breeches and a small knife. He had not bathed in weeks and his hair was greasy and dirty. His face was also very dirty, but his feet were the worst and were almost black from the dirt. He was thin but not starving. It was the fourth night of the
posted
The young nameless boy paused and looked out at the crowd from the shadows. Amazingly not one person passing by could see him. He didn't know why, only that he was almost invisible. I'm not sure if this is a metaphor or if the boy was literally translucent. Additionally, for the boy to be amazed that no one sees him, this would have to be a fairly new development. However, the rest reads as if the boy has been in this state for nearly as long as he could remember. So, he should view this not as amazing, but as unremarkable. The reader might wonder why people are ignoring this boy, but I'm doubting that the boy really gives it much thought. He was only 4 or 5 years old and had no idea who his parents were. He could only vaguely remember the boy's home he had been in until his escape during the MidWinter Festival. Since then he had stayed with an old beggar man. That is, until the man had begged from the wrong person and was killed where he had kneeled. I'd get rid of everything after "person" in the preceding sentence. It's not hard for the reader to fill in the rest, and the explicit statement about the beggar's death reads awkward to me. Now he was on his own. He owned nothing but a pair of breeches and a small knife. He had not bathed in weeks and his hair was greasy and dirty. His face was also very dirty, but his feet were the worst and were almost black from the dirt.The laundry list of his visible cleanliness problems is not compelling. We get the idea that he is dirty from the fact that he has not bathed in weeks. You do better with his feet, as it gives us a visual and also highlight's his poverty (no shoes) He was thin but not starving. It was the fourth night of the
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posted
I understand what you were saying about his being invisible. I knew about his ability so wrote that line with that knowledge. I have now fixed that. I dropped the last part of the beggar sentence and it does read better. And, I shortened the line about his cleanliness or lack thereof. Thank you for your feedback. I can also email anyone who would like to read the first 3 chapters. Here is the updated first 13:
The young nameless boy paused and looked out at the crowd from the shadows. He was amazed that as long as he was hiding in even the smallest of shadows, nobody could see him. He didn't know why, only that he was almost invisible like that. He was only 4 or 5 years old and had no idea who his parents were. He could only vaguely remember the boy's home he had been in until his escape during the MidWinter Festival. Since then he had stayed with an old beggar man. That is, until the man had begged from the wrong person. Now he was on his own. He owned nothing but a pair of breeches and a small knife. He had not bathed in weeks and his feet were the worst, almost black from the dirt. He was thin but not starving. It was the fourth night of the weeklong MidSummer Festival and almost midnight.
posted
Here's a few thoughts I have after reading both versions of your prologue.... no line-by-line comments, just general thoughts.
1. A novel should be able to stand on its own without the help of a prologue. Indeed, a reader should be able to skip the prologue entirely and not miss much more than some foreshadowing or maybe some details of the back story that is only hinted at in the novel itself.
2. The first prologue isn't, actually, written like a prologue, but like a jacket blurb. Glad to see you've nixed it.
3. The second prologue has POV issues, I believe. We start in the boy's POV, switch to an omni narrator, and then back to the kid again?
4. You've got a lot of indefinite pronouns in the second prologue. A LOT of them.
5. Crap, just saw the third prologue. A good idea - edit your original post to include the revised versions you're posting, along with the original that was posted. It's just a handy rule of thumb.
6. You're rushing in the second & third prologues. Quick-get-all-the-detail-in-while-they're-still-interested kind of rushing. Slow down a little. Pace yourself. All we have so far is a cardboard character cut-out (abandoned medieval orphan boy) with a quick physical description and a very very brief back story.
7. The invisibility thing still isn't making much sense to me. He's invisible in shadows? If only a part of him is in shadow, is he entirely invisible? Does he need to be in shadow to become invisible? How is that a "magic power"? I can hide in shadows too. This particular power might be best explained through showing a secondary character experiencing it, maybe along with some detail-filling-in dialogue. Something to think about.
Now, a few questions for you...
-Do you play D&D, read D&D-type books, or both? -What other fantasy have you read? Do you read non-genre as well? -What is your goal with this book? Personal satisfaction? Publication?
quote:-Do you play D&D, read D&D-type books, or both? -What other fantasy have you read? Do you read non-genre as well? -What is your goal with this book? Personal satisfaction? Publication?
First, I will explain a little about the special abilities in this world. His special ability is ShadowWalking. As long as he is standing in the shadows and has engaged the ability, he is as good as invisible. He could be standing right next to you and you could be looking straight at him and not be able to see him, at all. Even regular magic cannot detect him. Higher-level, powerful magic can, but not everyone has those spells just lying around. Some people have the ability of CatSight. That is self-explanatory.
One character in the book has ArmsMaster. He can pick up any weapon, even if he has never used it before and be considered a master of that weapon. Now, someone who has used a specific weapon to the exclusion of all other weapons would be better at that specific weapon.
Next:
I played D&D, versions 1 & 3.5, skipped 2 and have not found a group to play version 4 with. I have read several of the D&D series of books, but not all.
I read books, many books. Mostly in the SF and Fantasy genres, but once in a while will throw in a decent vampire book.
I have read Anne McCaffrey, Elizabeth Moon, Mercedes Lackey, Terry Goodkind, Raymond E. Feist, and a multitude of others that I can't list. And, before I'm booted from this forum, YES I have read OSC. Ender's Game is one of my all-time favorites.
My goal is to be published. I have 27 other books in my brain waiting to get out. It's getting kind of full in here, too.
posted
Let me go back to the invisibility thing. It's slightly clearer in the third, but I'm not sure if that's because it's written better, or you told me, so I know how I'm supposed to read it. But, I now know my problem.
When you say "He didn't know why," I read that as "He didn't know why people couldn't see him," which makes the invisible line read like metaphor. I think what you want is "He didn't know why he was invisible." 'Cause if he knows that he is invisible, he again wouldn't be wondering why people can't see him.
You might also want to make it more explicit. Saying that no one is noticing a street urchin is not necessarily going to pull people towards the fantastic. Nobody notices a street urchin in the shadows is even less so. It's a fairly common trope that the lowest of the low classes are "invisible," in that no one pays the slightest attention to them unless there's physical contact. Heck, I even think OSC uses that in the beginning of Ender's Shadow.
Other people will disagree on this point, but I'm just saying that, for me, I'm stuck in uncertainty, simply because there are perfectly rational explanations available to me for this trait, and rational explanations tend to be my default explanations.
posted
Thanks for the info DragonLord. Just wanted a little background, it helps sometimes to know WHO you're providing criticism & commentary to.
With regards to specific skills/abilities...
I have no idea what you are talking about there. I am 100% non D&D, though I have a rough knowledge of what it pertains to, the milieu/genre it falls into, and some of the key concepts/tropes. Specifics like you just mentioned make my eyes glaze over a bit.
Now, you know what ShadowWalking is, or ArmsMaster, or UrinalBoss, or whichever power your character has. I don't. Am I your target market? Are other D&D aficionados like yourself? Do other D&D books get this specific? Never read one personally, but I have bad images in my head of phrases like "Athalon struck the evil Intel with his +2 greatsword, doing 7 damage" as a regular part of an action scene.
If you're trying to get a reader like myself (enjoys fantasy, doesn't know the specifics of D&D) then you're going to have to distance yourself from the abilities & knowledge that you already have. Explain things a little bit more, and a little more elegantly.
If you're not after me - SUCCESS! Congrats! Go on about your business.
posted
I have only skimmed some of the earlier comments, so apologies if I'm restating anything.
quote:The young nameless(1) boy paused and looked out at the crowd from the shadows. He was amazed that as long as he was hiding in even the smallest of shadows(2), nobody could see him. He didn't know why, only that he was almost invisible like that. He was(3) only 4 or 5 years old and had no idea who his parents were. He could only vaguely remember the boy's home he had been in until his escape during the MidWinter Festival. Since then he had stayed with an old beggar man. That is, until the man had begged from the wrong person. Now he was on his own. He owned nothing but a pair of breeches and a small knife. He had not bathed in weeks and his feet were the worst, almost black from the dirt. He was thin but not starving. It was the fourth night of the weeklong MidSummer Festival and almost midnight.
1) nameless may be redundant (telling), since the narrator doesn't name him (showing). 2) The repetition of shadows bothers me a little only because I think the first sentence should have been able to establish them strong enough that the repetition is unnecessary. 3) This begins a big, boring (to me) info dump. Some of it seems unnecessary: "only 4 or 5 years old", done here in exposition, has (or could have) already been established in the first sentence, in action, with "young boy".
To my eye, the narration starts off with something moving, something in the now of the story, and then it reigns in the pace and casts the reader back in time with that past perfect tense - was, had, etc. When I'm jolted out of the story flow, I can't connect with the character and tend to put a story down and walk away.
[This message has been edited by BenM (edited March 16, 2010).]
posted
I want to thank everyone for their comments. Tomorrow I start my 4-day 40 hour week, so will not be on until Sunday. I have a lot to think about with my book and will be busy removing [u]comma's[/u] and either removing or altering the 4 million [u]indefinite pronouns[/u] that just seemed to appear.
I may just remove the prologue altogether. About half of it had already been alluded to in the main body, so that would be duplication, which is irritating.
So, keep the comments coming and I will always email anyone a chapter or 3 to critique for me.
[This message has been edited by Dragonlord67 (edited March 17, 2010).]
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