posted
For one, Sauron's mouthpiece never showed. Their army just marched out of the gates. What the hell? That was a strong point in the books!
Pippin finds the palantir in the water. There's no reason to cut Grima's attempted assassination of Gandalf out!
No Saruman. Anywhere. Boo...
No Eomer charge after he finds out Theoden's dead! WHAT? Dude! BAD Jackson! Bad, bad, bad director!
And as a side note, I LOVED it when Frodo was in the cave and cried out "It's sticky! What is it?" Then again, I have a rather (or, yes, extremely) rare crush on Frodo, so my judgement in giggling may have been biased.
Which others are there? I think there's a couple more rattling up in my brain, but I'm a bit wiped right now...
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Actually the only thing that really bugged me that they changed was Sam's hesitation in giving the ring back to Frodo. In the book there is no hesitation. Perhaps it was only because Sam had possesed it for such a short time, but I always thought (or liked to think) it was because Sam had no ambitions of power. He loved Frodo and just wanted him to be safe and back at the Shire, so the allure of power the ring used to grab and hold onto people with had no power over Sam.
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Actually, I think that was in the book -- Jackson cut out an important part there, too. It's been some time since I've read the trilogy, but I remember Sam having fantasies of Samwise the Brave, walking around with a flaming sword and whatnot. Then he shrugs it off and returns the ring to Frodo. It's too bad Jackson didn't include Samwise the Brave imagery and made Frodo, as you said, snatch the ring out of Sam's hands.
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That's right he did didn't he? I don't think that was when he was debating giving the ring back though. Wow I haven't read those book in years I really should go back and re-read them.
quote: Then again, I have a rather (or, yes, extremely) rare crush on Frodo, so my judgement in giggling may have been biased.
Ah Eddie, I look for every opportunity to dredge up this remark from The Two Towers reviews last year because it made me laugh so hard the first time I read it. Thank you so much for obliging. I'm glad to see that your feelings haven't changed!!
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Oh yeah. When Sam's coming up the stairway to rescue Frodo, Jackson tips his hat to Tolkien by making Sam's roaring and his shadow freak out the orcs -- but then Sam comes up in all his hobbitish fury, and they break out chuckling. In the book, though Sam didn't wear the ring at the time, Sam clutching the ring gave off a fearsome shadowy figure that, when seen directly, convinced the orc who saw him to flee back up and start an argument with the orc dude at the top guarding Frodo.
Also, didn't Sam wear the ring for a time in the books?
I'm also not slightly annoyed by the trebuchets. First of all, the way they were handled, the impossibly large, out-of-proportion boulders they were heaving would have crashed into the lower levels of Minas Tirith, not sailed off to hit the orcs. Secondly, like the orc commander showed, it's really easy to sidestep those missiles -- why were such massive quantities of orcs dumb enough to ignore the giant rocks hurtling at them?
The Watchers? Where are the Watchers? I thought they might be the two giant statues in front of the Witch-King's crib, but no action with them despite an overabundance of camera action on them.
Also, what the hell? I distinctly remember Frodo and Sam going through some dead, bone-white city that was once the pride of Gondor. I read the books years ago, but I know it was there. Was it the Witch-King's bachelor pad? And if so, what the hell? Wasn't it supposed to be uninhabited except by the dead? Why did an army come streaming out -- I'm fairly sure that happened in the books as well, but did they come from that city?
What's with Gollum sprinkling crap on Sam? Tolkien didn't have that.
Choppy fighting in the river-city, too, whatever the hell it's called. Way too much camera action. Much of the action there was unnecessary, too -- did we need to see Faramir trick some orcs into walking into a conveniently placed archer trap?
Looking back, a couple of these are more bitches about what was there rather than whines about what wasn't. Huh.
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And heh, Narnia. You now have ammunition to ruin any future political career I have. Keep it secret! Keep it safe!
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Much of this will be in the EE version of the DVD.
At least I hope so.
Don't forget, we are watching two trilogies, the LotR and LotR-EE, both made from the origional material, but one has more than the other. Don't see RotK and expect to se TTT-EE storylines wrapped up.
That said, there were some other things left out.
Gandalph sees a butterfly in the final battle. Suddenly Eagles show up. I expect this was a call to his rescue from Orthanc, where he sends a butterfly to get the eagles. I expect them to show him sending this bug to get the eagles in the EE version.
Another addition I expect to see, in the books there was a lot made of Pippin and Merry's killing a fearsome Mountain Troll in the final battle. In the movie a fearsom Mountain Troll is attacking Aragorn, who cannot beat it. Legolas tries to reach Aragorn and save him, but can't. I expect Pippin and Merry will kill this troll together in the EE version.
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I did notice that the first scene between Gandalf and Denethor was HACKED TO CRAP It was clearly about three times as long, and shaved down to a hairy nub for the theatrical release. Note that every time we intercut between Denethor and Gandalf, Gandalf's entire mood changes. I'm really looking forward to seeing that scene in its entirety next year.
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Frodo and Sam don't go in any ruined city. They are in Ithilien, and pass by the statue of the king at the crossroads, that's had his head knocked off by the orcs. They find the king's head over in the weeds, with a flowering vine growing across his brow like a crown. This is just as the sun is setting on the last day before the great darkness. Perhaps that is what you are remembering? The only other city they see is the remains of Minas Ithil which has become Minas Morgul, which is sometimes called the City of the Witch King. It's primarily a tower, of course --the tower in which Frodo was imprisoned -- but there must also be some other associated buildings and dwellings. At one time this was an outlying settlement of Gondor, back when Osgiliath was the capital city and Minas Tirith was named Minas Anor, I think (the tower of the setting sun), and but a fortress -- a place of refuge.
Merry is not with the army before the black gates in the books. He's still in the houses of the healing. Pippin does kill a huge troll, who falls on him and knocks him out. Later after they can't find him and are sure he is dead, Gimli sees his foot sticking out underneath the troll carcass and rescues him.
Aragorn in the books is revealed as the true king because his hands hold healing for his people. He calls Merry back from the brink of death, from the black shadow, as well as Eowyn and Faramir and many others. There's funny stuff about Merry's lost pack in that scene, which is beside his bed all the time.
There is a lot of tongue wagging by a healer named Ioreth or something like that, which I'm very glad Peter Jackson left out. One of the only parts of the books I find tiresome after the twentieth reading.
Gandalf and Aragorn go up on the mountain and find a sapling of the White Tree. The old dead tree is laid in Rath Dinen, and the new tree is planted in the courtyard in its place.
Arwen and Elrond arrive in Minas Tirith, along with many people from Rivendell.
Frodo receives a white gem from Arwen, which he wears around his neck. It is to help him bear his pain at the loss of the ring and from his spider sting and the bite of the Morgul knife. He clutches it whenever he suffers the worst pangs, for the rest of his stay in Middle Earth.
The hobbits with Gandalf return to Bree and speak with Barliman Butterbur. Sam is reunited with his beloved pony Bill. Barliman Butterbur is told that the high king of both Gondor and Arnor is Strider the Ranger, whom he had thought was a rascal.
There's the whole scouring of the Shire that was left out, and the death of Saruman and Grima.
Sam helps to restore the damage done to the Shire, the trees cut down and so on, with the Lady's Gift to him, a box of earth with her blessing upon it. He plants the nut from that box in the field where the Party Tree has been cut down, and it grows into the only Mallorn tree (the golden trees of Lothlorien) in that part of the world.
[ December 31, 2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
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Hmmmm, ak - the only other thing that bothered me was the use of the "dead" at Minas Tirith. Which actually took place at the Bay of Belfalas, did it not?
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Yes, the dead fought the Corsairs of Umbar, who were going to sail up the river and fight on the side of the bad guys. Instead of Corsairs, the ships held Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, a bunch of Rangers from the north (Aragorn's kin), and freed slaves of the Corsairs who rowed the ships. The army of the dead didn't fight "real time" as we read the book. We only heard that battle described, and the whole paths of the dead episode as well, by Gimli and Legolas after the fact. They were telling the hobbits about it in the houses of healing, I guess, after the battle of pellenor was won.
Oh and Aragorn had all his homies with him on the paths of the dead, not just Legolas and Gimli.
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Whips out the third book, scans hastily and sighs in contentment. How far away are you, ak? Let's go see the movie together!
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ak, one confusion. The orc outpost Frodo got imprisioned in, I don't believe was actually in the witch king's fortress directly but outside on the Mordor side, but I'm not sure about that completely. I think its purpose was to keep things that would think about running away, in Mordor, while the witch-king's castle was to keep other things out.
posted
Aragorn grabbing Arwen and attempting to find her tonsils--right in front of Elrond and everyone else. Bleh.
I don't remember Frodo falling off the edge of the precipice over the Cracks of Doom and having to be rescued by Sam after a pep talk.
And Barad-Dur falling over--I half expected the Eye to be impaled on that shorter tower. That would have been right up there with Legolas bringing down the oliphaunt.
Jackson directs some good action scenes, I guess, but he is not subtle enough to really make LOTR much more than eye candy. I don't think anyone not familiar with the story would have made much sense of that movie. It jumped around too much and there was so little characterization.
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I didn't like the fake-out of Frodo falling over the edge. Peter Jackson already did that in the Two Towers with Aragorn. And I kept expecting Sam to say, "Elsa. Give me your other hand, honey."
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What's up with having a stupid "extended edition"? So that people who suffered through the plotless theatrical release can pay another $21.99 to see the extension that fleshes out the plot? I would have gladly sat through another hour in the theater to see a good story. The whole EE idea is pretty cheap.
<---- Has very little faith in the claim of anyone in Hollywood to be concerned about Art over Money.
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<------------has very little faith in uncultured goons who wont appreciate a really, really, really good movie unless it is a box office smash, and won't see a subtle, non-romance movie that is five hours long.
I'd see a ten hour. Ah well.
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Who's spending money? Isn't that what Christmas, Birthday and other holiday gifts are for? Not to mention thoughtful ex-husbands . . .
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I think ROTK, especially when set against Matrix Revolutions, did an amazing job of pulling the story together. Yes, things got left out. Whoop-dee-do - who was actually stupid enough to think that every snippet of the books would show in the films? Most of the things that Jackson removed or changed have clearly been done for a reason. At least the film managed to retain its humanity, despite it essentially being a war movie (in the current release). Somethings are obviously easily cut back - for example, there is no reason why the Palantir that Pippin picks up couldn't have been thrown from the tower - just insert a shot of Grima doing so.
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I liked the move well enough, too, and I love the trilogy as a whole, but let's be fair. Nearly every movie looks good when compared to Matrix: Revolutions.
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I saw the tree blooming, I dunno about you guys. But I've only seen it once, it could have been high-on-lack-of-sleep-ness...
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quote:What's up with having a stupid "extended edition"? So that people who suffered through the plotless theatrical release can pay another $21.99 to see the extension that fleshes out the plot? I would have gladly sat through another hour in the theater to see a good story. The whole EE idea is pretty cheap.
I find myself agreeing with you afr. I'm not mad about the "let's make more money scheme" that the EE seems to be a part of, but I am a little upset that they presented us with a choppy feeling story full of holes (albeit with some kick trash film-making), and then managed to brainwash eveyrone into feeling better about it because "whew! At least it will be in the EE!"
Meh. I think that the theatrical release should be the BEST version of the movie. I too would have sacrficed another half hour of my time to see some tiny details that were left out. (even in TTT. I was astounded at how the EE completely changed CHARACTERS!! coughfaramircough)
posted
I didn't see "a choppy story full of holes". Also, I would not have "sacrficed another half hour of my time to see some tiny details that were left out". If tiny details were what makes me cream my pants, I'd take up sewing. I go to a cinema to see a movie, and what I saw was a pretty good movie. I don't see what's wrong with the way things are set-up now: rabid Tolkienites get the EE, and normal people get the less-nonsense theatrical cut.
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I can understand feeling that way about the whole EE situation, but there's really no helping it. Not everyone is a Tolkein fan, and I'm sure there are very few non-fans who would have wanted to sit through a four-and-a-half hour movie. And I'm sure there are parts of the EE that would have confused non-fans.
I think that the EE situation is much less of a moneymaking scheme for Jackson than a way to get the version of his movie that he wants seen to be released. I'm pretty sure the only reason the studios greenlighted it was because they wanted to make money, but that's beside the point.
The bottom line is that the LotR books are VERY LONG and there's no way that a movie adaptation can be absolutely truthful to every little detail in the book. In fact, there's no way ANY movie can be absolutely truthful to the book it's based on. This is in mind because of a friend who didn't like RotK specifically because it wasn't completely true to the book.
And if there were a series of LotR movies that were completely truthful to the books, I don't know that I'd watch them. It would be long and boring. It's my personal opinion that these three are the best movies possible for this series. In fact, I think anyone who's seen the animated version of Lord of the Rings and The Return of the King knows that it could have been a LOT worse.
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Complain if it's some 2 hour or 1.5 hour long crap fest with bad dialogue and a bunch of famous people chosen just because they are famous. This series is a work of art. It's excellent in terms of details and styles and direction. A lot of work went into it, so don't complain. It's better than the HP movies in my opinion. Did they HAVE to cut the Deathday scene?
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I think Javert's referring to the "cream" remark, which as we all know comes from dairy cows and makes such things as coffee creamers, whipped cream and other fattening type foods that numerous people will swear off in less than seven hours for a whole year and last at that resolution for approximately a month.
(Wow, that was one run-on sentence.) Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
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First, let me say that I loved the movie. I agree that they left a lot of stuff from the book out. I understand that some of the stuff they cut will be released on the extended version DVD--can't wait to see it. I know most of us would have been more than happy to have the movie go a full 8 hours (or cut it into two or more movies). Unfortunately, I doubt that it would have done as well at the box office. Given that the movie had to go no more than 3.5 hours, was there anything you would have cut instead of the stuff they did cut? What would you have swapped? I was disappointed that we didn't get to see Aragorn do some healing given that they spent about 30 seconds showing us a field of Kingsfoil (Athelas) on top of Minas Tirith, and made a big deal of it on Weathertop in the first movie. Unfortunately, I don't know what they could have cut to swap it in. They also skipped the whole deal where the Hobbits have to clean up the Shire when they get home, but again, I have a hard time finding anything else to cut.
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I don't know. Did you get the cheese from an entire football team before the game? I'm pretty sure that's what the urban myth says about the cheerleader.
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Anna Jo, the city of Minas Morgul was primarily a single tower, like Minas Tirith. Minas = tower in Quenya, I believe. It was originally built by the Numenoreans, and its purpose was indeed to keep a watch on Mordor, to keep nasty things in. When it was seized by the Witch King, there may have been more stuff built up -- surely the watchers, who were so malevolent, were the work of the servants of darkness, for instance -- but the city itself would have been primarily a single tower, and I always picture the tower in which Frodo was kept being it. I don't know if Tolkien ever drew a picture of things in that vicinity that we can refer to for a definitive answer on that. I will go and check my library and see what I can find.
[ January 01, 2004, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
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It might be that the city and the tower are quite separate, as you say, since they saw the black host come forth from the Witch King's city at the bottom of the hill, then they had a long climb up the stair, then the tunnels of Shelob, and then they come out at the pass and the black tower is there with the watchers. I don't know why it seemed to me it had to be the same place. But I just pictured the path winding up and coming around on a shoulder of the mountain, rather than by the main gate down below. I looked in my books for an illustration by JRRT that might show the answer, and yes, there are 3 sketches of Cirith Ungol the third of which would seem to bear me out. See p. 177 of "J.R.R. Tolkien, Artist and Illustrator", sketch 174, a pencil drawing of the tower of Cirith Ungol.
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Shan, I would love to go see it again with you! I'm in Birmingham, Alabama! Where are you?
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The only scene that I was really sad to see cut out of the theatrical version was where Eomer finds Eowyn on the Pelennor fields and thinks she's dead. I think there's a snippet of this in the theatrical trailer, so I was dissapointed that it wasn't actually in the movie. I hate it when they do that! Anyways, that part of the book absolutely killed me as I was reading it the first time, and it still gets me emotional. Hopefully it will be as a whole in the EE.
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