posted
Hello my name is Dreamwalker and I am addicted to horses.
Currently I am working on having only seven horses in my paddocks but it is sooo hard.This addiction has taken over my life. I make all choices based on the question "how will this affect my riding time". I have no money... it gets swallowed up in feed costs, gear costs, shoeing and worming. I think it too expensive to by myself new shoes once a year but think it acceptable to spend $60 every six weeks putting shoes on my horse.I am looking for a new car, the first thing I want to know is: will it tow the horse float? The second thing is: hmm will the kids fit in?
So knightswhosayni! if this sounds like you; shall we form a support group? Posts: 141 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Given that I'm one of the kids in question, I'm a little disappointed (I said disappointed, not surprised! ) that you forgot to ask me to join.
Given that I've only ever owned 5 horses, I'm not sure that I qualify... still, I have no money, does that count?
Posts: 1111 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Dreamwalker, How often do you ride each horse, and what kind of footing are they housed on? Horses don't NEED to be reshod by the book most of the time, and if your footing's good and they're not bearing weight very often, many horses don't need shoeing at all.
my horsiest proffessor's favorite motto is only shoe(or reshoe) when they need it.
WHat kind of horses are they?
I don't have any myself, seeing that I'm in college, which takes enough money as it is.
posted
I thought you would recognise the shoeing part as part of a monolouge that does the rounds periodically. Forgot the quote markers sorry I only shoe the horses that are in actual work; so not all seven get shod. Then only as needed. Except of course at Christmas when the long summer holidays mean we can all ride heaps. Where I currently live I do a lot of road riding on tarseal or metal roads so unfortunatly shoeing is a must. I have only ridden in an arena with an artifical surface once in my life... to give you an idea. We have seven horses because I have far too many kids and hangers-on who ride. So I actually only ride two of them. They are both Appaloosas. One is 26 and still thinks he has what it takes..and I allow him to think that so we manage a big burst of energy occasionally to blow out the cobwebs but mostly just plod along keeping each other company. The other is my baby. She is fairly quiet but has her 'moments'. Oh woops.. you said
quote:what kind of footing are they housed on?
I read it as ride on anyways they are not housed. They are paddocked. In the winter I cover them with canvas, wool-lined paddock rugs. I don't know anyone who stables their horses. I do know someone who has stables... she uses them to store stuff in.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Philip literally means "lover of horses" but I actually know next to nothing about them. I was reading your thread and was wondering what the difference is between paddocking and stabling.
posted
Philip, My horses are in a paddock (would you call it a field?) which means they are outside on grass. They have about 1-1/5 acres to eat, run, play, sleep etc. I shift them every couple of weeks to fresh pasture,more or less depending on the time of year.I have about 30 acres. I add hay in the winter and give supplements to my old horse and to those in work. A stable is a horsehouse barn-like structure. Each horse has about 1.5-2 metres squared each. The horses have to be fed with some type of grain mix and hay. Some systems allow for grazing as well. They take the horse out to pasture for a few hours each day. Where I live it is not neccessary to have stables because the grass grows all year round.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Bah. TTT, most horses in light work never need more than a trim every once in a while. But the nice farrier people like to tell you that EVERY horse HAS to be reshod ever six weeks. which is baloney.
Wow. Your horses certainly have it good. I count being on pasture almost constantly the best kind of housing.
Here in the midwest, we keep horses inside probably more than we have to. My horses probably would have a run-in shed in their pasture, and i'd probly have a two-stall barn for emergencies. Of course, i live in a dorm right now, so it's all speculatory.
My farrier doesn't try to tell me horses need shoeing more often than they do - or at all! Heh, we have enough trouble getting him to come out on time. There's quite a shortage of farriers around here. I would usually keep my horses trimmed rather than shod (of course, I don't currently own any as I'm at uni), except if I was doing a lot of roadwork. A couple of horses I've had couldn't be ridden on the road unshod at all as they were such babies about going barefoot!
A lot of people that I know shoe/trim more often than they "need" to, and a common thing is worming too often which makes the horse more susceptible to worm burdens in the future. I guess they think the more often they do it, the safer their horses will be? Many people also feed too much - but then again, there are a few SPCA cases too, aren't there. Better to have horses too well looked after than not at all maybe.
I'm pretty good at keeping things to a minimum (and so's Dreamwalker), but horseriding is still an expensive sport. Still, I'm not about to give it up! Posts: 1431 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
So KWSN what sort of riding do you do? What sort of surfaces do you ride on? I seem to remenber a while back you were doing western equitition or something similar? We do a mix a bit of everything that's going. A bit of show-jumping, dressage, ODE, ponyclub, hunting, trekking, and games and once I tried western. Not all at once you understand just as it is available/in season etc.I'm thinking this year of giving endurance a go,have you done any of that? In my ten year plan is coming to the States and riding with the Appy society over the Chief Joseph trail. I know a couple who did it and said it was an awesome experince. First I want to go to the South Island and go on the Cavalcade, the annual week long trek to the goldfields. Maybe I'll see hobbits they were filming just near there.. they may have 'accidently' left one behind. Posts: 141 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I do a little of everything, really. My riding instructor at the moment is very good at dressage, so i'm learning that, and liking it a lot. I'd also like to get good at speed events like reining, or barrels. Ihave loved the small amounts of jumping i've done, too, so i'd like to try that.
THe horses that I'm working with right now are arabians, but i've done stuff with drafthorses, too. THe internship i want is at a quarter horse farm, so i really have almost no preference.
posted
Are you studying riding? At college level? I just saw an add for jousting and thought that would suit your login perfectly . Ever given that a go? Were you driving the draughts or riding them. One of my daughters is currently teaching her horse to drive in shafts. I'm not that fussed on Arabians they look pretty but have no common sense .
Posts: 141 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Arabs are ok, if you teach them that if you're not scared of somehting, there's no reason for them to be. Then they're great horses.
I worked for a summer taking care of a thoroughbred perchron cross that was a blast to ride, but he was really bred to be a carriage horse, and was really gorgeous.
I'm studying Horse Management, it's more about taking care of horses at the moment, but I'm trying to get more into the riding and training side. I'm also very interested in breeding, handling stallions and mares and foals.
That's why I want this internship so much it hurts, because it would be great to do all of those things at once.
posted
I'm one of those kids in question too. Can I join too? Mum thinks I don't like riding anymore....but I do! Just not riding over the same place every single day. It gets boring! I wana do exciting stuff! And plus I don't like horses that try to buck me off everytime I get on them....
Posts: 315 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
I'm not even going to pretend to know anything about horses, but what in the world is a metal road?
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Okay -- you two. A question about horse training.
Now, we have three horses. (And I grew up with horses, beginning with 4-H while young, and having several over the years).
One of these horses we now own was a former race horse (thoroughbred). So he had pretty much been kept stabled except for running. He really freaked the first time he saw a cow here. Definately not trained for western pleasure, but he's learning.
He is only 5 -- retired because he chipped a bone in his leg, which has since healed.
But this horse does NOT know personal space! I mean he acts like an over-active adolescent all the time. When you go into the corral to feed or anything, he has to get right up in my face, bump me or nudge me with his body (he's big) and sometimes "act" like he is going to run me down -- charging right up to me then come to a screeching halt (you didn't know horses could screech-- did you? Well, just imagine). He's like a big overgrown kid, but a dangerous one because he uses his body to try to intimidate.
He isn't really mean -- just onery -- and, like, immature.
How do I teach this horse some manners? We're about ready to sell him because we get so exasperated with his moods.
Horses can be such a pain when they don't know who's boss huh! Especially when they've been allowed to get away with things when they were "little and cute", or no-one's spent the time to teach them respect; and now they're big enough to walk all over you... A lot of horses come off the track like this. I guess you probably already know a lot of what I'm about to say but it all comes down to the basics really.
You really need to be consistent and firm with him, every time he's pushy let him know. The longer he continues to get away with it, the worse he will be and the harder you'll find it to train him out of it. He sounds like he needs a lot of ground work - lunging, driving and so forth, and even just leading him around, making him halt and back up often. I would not hesitate to carry a whip to remind him of your personal space, and don't be afraid to give him a good whack as he IS a lot bigger than you and he needs to gain a healthy respect for the fact that YOU're the boss and he's not. It may seem harsh (I'm not saying you should beat him! heh) but tough love is the only way for him to really learn. And you don't want to get hurt. Horses like this can easily become very dangerous.
Every time he comes too close - treads on your heels, gets in the way, whatever - stop immediately and make him back up. (Even if he was just in the paddock and you weren't working with him). Horses don't like backing much so use it as a punishment. Make him back up until he's going smoothly and obediently, then walk on, but if he tries to push you around again, or walk too fast, just make him back up some more. Praise him when he is good, but growl him very firmly when he's not.
It will take a lot of work, time and patience but you'll have a much better horse at the end of it. If you can't be bothered, or don't have the time, I would think seriously about selling him - it's no fun having a bolshy horse around and others can learn that behaviour. Hope this helps - JMHO. I'd come over and lend a hand but it's a little far. Good luck! Posts: 1431 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
FG, this is the problem with horses that are kept individually. THey have no idea how to be a horse around other horses, so they think YOU are the horse. THis is a problem, since you weigh so much less.
To teach him manners around other horses, i would put him in with either something bigger than him, like a draft, or another horse that's not going to take any of his crap, like a boss mare.
To teach him manners with you, You have to correct him EVERY SINGLE TIME he does something he's not supposed to. Immediately. With some hosres, a strong NO! will be enough. With others, it may take a slap on the neck or a whap with a crop. THe horse i worked with a few summers ago had personal space issues, and the only thing that would get him to leave me alone was a yank on a chain over his nose. As with all reinforcements, use the lightest one you can an get results.
I don't generally subscribe to TT&T's backing up idea, because you still want a horse that will back calmly and willingly, especially if you get in a tight spot.
posted
Kwsni, it's not *my* idea, it's used by a lot of people who know a lot more than I do about horses, including all of the riding instructors that I've ever had, and the professional showjumper I worked for. I've never had any trouble with horses not backing up after using this method, in fact if anything they back up more readily as they're used to you asking them to do it. Once you start getting in their personal space, they have a lot more respect for yours.
I'm not saying it would work in every situation, but it's one of the first things I would try.
Also, this behaviour may or may not be a result of the horse being kept alone, as I know horses that have been in a herd situation all their lives and still been pushy - they had respect for other horses, but not for people, because they'd never been taught that the human was the boss. If they were one of the "boss" horses in the paddock, they are more likely to think they're the boss outside of it too, but also, even if the problem horse has been pushed around by a horse that's bigger/stronger/bossier than them, it does not always follow that it will have respect for a human, as the human is weaker and smaller, so the horse may think it's their turn to push someone around now that they're the big one.
I will try all these things if I can. I know he really needs a lot of work time, and that is something I am so lacking. During the winter months, it is dark when I leave for work, and dark when I get home, so I don't get to spend much time with the horses except on weekends. During the summer, I hope to be able to do more.
Our other two horses are very old quarter horses (all three horses are geldings). So he does feel like he rules the roost. I do wish I had a good boss mare to put him in his place. I have also thought about making him a separate pen/stable for quarantine when he is being so bossy.
I actually posted your message at another noticeboard I frequent, in order to check if what I'd said was correct - it's what I'd do, but I didn't want to be giving you bad advice, particularly about a potentially dangerous situation. Here's what they said.
Seems I have the right idea...
Let us know how it goes. Posts: 1431 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Hi Farmgirl I've seen screeching to halt The whole problem imho is hierachy. He's not sure who's boss you or him and for a herd animal this is really really important. He'll know where he stands with the other horses.. they'll have sorted that out pretty quickly! Personally I make a horse that is not respecting me back up. It's something that you can make him do even though you are not as big as he is and he knows YOU are MAKING him and this gets processed as YOU ARE BOSS. KWSN suggested that it could cause problems later; I havn't found this to be so if anything in my experince once it was established who was boss the horse was a lot more confident in responding to what he was being asked to do. But different people and different horses behave in different ways.. what's important is to find what works for you and your horse. If you are interested in 'natural horsemanship' type ideas google "parelli" many of these are interesting and worth considering.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Dreamwalker, my concern is using something that you ask a horse to do at one point as a punishment at another. When you train, you always give the horse a way out, usually by doing what you want. If you use backing up as a punishment, I'd worry that the horse would learn that backing up would mean he's done something wrong, so when you ask him to back, you're punishing him, even if he's done nothing wrong.
I was thinking about it today at the barn, and playing with some of our old horses. Another thing you might try is stopping him when he's running you over, and then stepping quickly towards him. If you're agressive enoguh about it, he should take a step back or to the side on his own. If not, give him a light smack, and LET him go back. That way, it's teaching him that he needs to give you space, or you'll "bite" him, just like any other horse.
The thing with natural horsemanship is it's all about READING the horse, just like other horses would read him. So the people that do that know how to read horses. And they don't TEACH you that, because they make thier money doing it. So chasing a horse around a roundpen with a stick does nearly nothing, unless you can read the horse's body language. And you can do that without paying money for a clinic, by watching your horses interact.
Besides, why on EARTH would you want to ride around on a horse without any control over his head? Some Black Stallion fantasy? I'd much rather have some form of restraint in case something goes wrong.
quote:Another thing you might try is stopping him when he's running you over, and then stepping quickly towards him. If you're agressive enoguh about it, he should take a step back or to the side on his own. If not, give him a light smack, and LET him go back. That way, it's teaching him that he needs to give you space, or you'll "bite" him, just like any other horse.
Word of warning: Be very careful when doing this, as while it may appear to work - and may even in fact work, depending on the horse and how you do it - you don't want to end up with a headshy horse that you can't catch. Sure, let him know that he can't get in your personal space, and if he's running towards you you do need some way to make him stop, but that's the only situation I would ever use this method in. "Letting" him go back rather than making him, might first of all teach him to be scared of rather than respect you (do you really want him to flinch backwards every time you walk towards him or make a sudden movement?), and second of all that he can simply back up to get out of doing things he doesn't want to do.
I still stick by making him back up a few steps if he's getting too close - perhaps I worded it badly by calling it a "punishment". I didn't mean to make him DISLIKE backing; rather, let him know that he HAS to back up when you tell him to. This emphasises that you're the boss. Again, I've never (nor do I know of anyone who has) had trouble with backing a horse either on the ground or while riding, after doing this. It is an essential part of any horse's training.
You do want the horse to respect you, but you don't want him to be scared of you. Or at least that's what I'd want. Posts: 1431 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Yes when you back a horse up you are asserting dominance. So when they yield you stop. Then if you require them to back up as part of your normal riding they yield because you have already asserted you are the dominant partner. So it's not perceived as a punishment as such. This I usually establish with my foals before I break/train them. Yielding to pressure is gentler than using devices IMHO Natural horsemanship is more about establishing a partnership. To do this you need to understand what the horse is telling you and what your body language is telling him. I've never attended a clinic or chased a horse around a pen but have taken on board some of their more common sense ideas. I like to learn from as many places as I can and take on board what is relevant to me and my situation. Oh there are lots of reasons I ride bridleless... when we swim the horses for example :)or bush-bashing, but the time I was 25kn into the forestry, with no vechile access road, and the cheek piece on my bridle snapped well I was jolly grateful to be able to ride my mare home instead of having to walk! Now... why do you assume bridleless means no control over the head? A bit only gives you nominal control if something goes wrong. It's a continuation of your entire seat. So if something goes wrong... say bolting, then a bolting horse can choose not to react to the bit. However I usually ride in full gear for comforts sake.
Farmgirl what sort of riding do you do? 4H is the western type of pony club isn't it? I wonder... are you able to have your tb on the lawn? no seriously! when I'm training (breaking)very young horses I bring them close to the house so they have "stuff" happening without to much stress. I put them in a paddock with pigs, sheep, deer, etc. The kids play ball around them, car gets parked next to them etc. If I can, I send them to a friend who has a train running next to her place. All these things are to help the horse to socialise/ acclimatise to the various things they will come in contact with with later. Less for them to freak out about when I'm working them.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Kwsni - Who hasn't had a Black Stallion fantasy? And I'm sorry but correct me if I'm wrong it sounds like you have never had a horse you trust enought to just jump on in the paddock just for a little fun, or when you can't be bothered tacking up. I think thats sad:( Again, I am very sorry if I've got it totally wrong Posts: 315 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Thanks again all -- and thanks tt&t for the link to the other message board -- I read all the replies.
I guess I need someone to come over and show me exactly what they consider "groundwork" to be. I mean, most all other horses we've ever owned have always been well broke before we got them, and I didn't have to do any "training". We just rode.
quote: Farmgirl what sort of riding do you do? 4H is the western type of pony club isn't it?
Well, we're not in 4-H any more -- that was when I was a kid. Now we just ride around the farm and down to the river. Just ride for personal pleasure. (found out he was scared of water too, that way!). We aren't as "active" horsemen as you all are. However, my daughter plans to be a vet, so she has been primary caretaker of the horses, and would like to learn a little training.
quote:are you able to have your tb on the lawn?
Actually, we HAVE had him in the front yard, since our front yard has a six foot chain link fence (LARGE yard). However, he just seemed intent of having "fun" chasing my Great Pyrenees dog and our cats around the front yard. (The horse thought it was great fun, my Pyr did NOT think it was funny).
(and I understand the Black Stallion fantasy. When I was a kid we had a horse I used to just jump on all the time without any gear and we'd go cantering around the pasture. It was great. Have never had another horse like that one)
posted
Love the horse in the front yard story! We had one that would come inside if you left the ranch-slider open. Little brat used to help herself out of the fruit bowl. Ground work: well that covers a multitude of things. You have a good idea to get someone over to show you in person. In the meantime you could start with the very, very basics. Does he tie up ok? If not I have suggestions for prior to that. But assuming he ties, stands for you to groom, pick his feet, change covers etc you could try tying him to feed him. It is very bad manners for a horse to push you esp when you are feeding him and potentially dangerous if you were trying to feed more than one at a time. (you're not are you? trying to put out feed for them all together?) By feeding him when you have him tied up you are establishing two things 1) that you control the feed and 2) feeding happens after he has been caught, brushed etc. He will find this routine reassuring because you are establishing who is boss without threatening him. At 5 he is only a baby, although tb's are in work from 15 months or so, I believe that mentally they don't mature until about 6. So my impression is (in human terms) naughty bored toddler throwing paddies to find boundaries So perhaps also some toys. There is a ball for horses, like a childs moon-hopper, that they can pick up throw around, this is hilarious to watch, but also should stop him chasing the dog for amusement. A tray of water is another, they like to splash the water. To back him up out of your space (if this is the option you are choosing) put your hand flat on his chest and push saying 'back up'quite sharply. When he has backed out of your space take your hand away if he steps forward back into your space repeat. If he is not responding to hand pressure put a halter (headstall?) and leadrope on. Hold the lead rope against his chest bringing his head down Then try the 'back up'again.Eventually you will be able to hold your hand up and he will stop outside your space no matter how fast he is trying to arrive. But usually by establing your space he will recognise that and you wont need to. I'm guessing he hasn't done much what I call 'mile work' this is miles and miles of trailwork esp soon after they are broken. I sometimes ask pig-hunters or station hands to do this for me *trying to guess what your local equivilent would be* perhaps you could look for someone to do this for you. Someone who would spend at least four hours in the saddle every day for about a month. Then you could look at formal schooling perhaps.
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yup no money and horse muck on thy boots = automatic qualifier!
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I've seen screeching to halt 
