a well thought out training program, that doesn't just let people choose what they want to learn but directs them to a marketable skill--Forrest, sounds a little inconsistent. You get to choose, but others don't?
Cause other countries didn't have to worry about workers--Forrest. Yes, if only management could screw workers more efficiently in America, we'd all be better off.
I have mixed feelings about unions--they have often become corrupt and unworkable systems but they have done plenty of good for workers as well.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Kayla, how do you manage to always say something that is guranteed to push my buttons? Are you just talented or something?
quote: Uh, huh. Spoken like a teenager who lives with mommy and daddy.
Just forgetting for a moment, just a moment, that this has absolutely nothing to do with anything, I'm not exactly sure what your point is supposed to be. So, I, who am legally obliged to live with my parents (though I like them and probabaly would anyway), somehow am not allowed to speak? My opinion counts for less? Are my bills somehow easier to pay? Cause my parents aren't paying them for me. Things like clothes, food, and whatnot don't pay for themselves. Is this some sort of rebuttle of anything I've said or is it just the pissant whining from a 20+ year old that thinks they can win an argument just by saying, "I'm older!"?
quote: In order to even get a job, you have to be independent? That way, there won't be any teenagers to we need to worry about taking away jobs from 22 year old mothers of 2.
Practically, because that'd be utterly ignorant. Minors make up enough of the work force in jobs no adult would take (lifeguards during day, camp conseulors, etc.) that firing them all for your draconian measure would play havoc with employment for some time. Plus who decides when you're "independent"? Does that mean when I'm 40 I can't receive a gift from my dad because I'm "dependent on him" and thus, cannot be employed? That's nicely ambiguous methinks.
However, it can be ambiguous since ideologically, it's also a horrible idea. Let's keep "non-independent minors from working"; why you ask? Why not? Then we can keep old people from working too, they're gonna die anyway right? What other people's freedoms are you going to trample in your quest for social parity? Just tell me straight up, do you think it's okay to abuse the freedoms of one group to socially further another, cause that's the impression I get from your post in this topic and others.
quote: He dislikes women (surprise!) Anyway, he told this story once about when he was in the Army and they were moving these huge spools of cable. There was a woman who was of the same rank and pay who couldn't lift the spool up onto the truck and asked for help. He wouldn't help her because "Hey, she was getting paid the same as I was. Why should I have to do her work, too?"
I hope you're not trying to imply this is what I said, cause I definitely didn't. My situation is more akin to the idea that the two could cooperate moving the spools around and at the end of the hour; the man gets paid less than the woman because she has a kid or something. This is what is unfair in my eyes, doing the same exact work and being paid less. But I'm sure Kayla would have absolutely no problem with that right?
Try actually refuting some of my points instead of just attacking my age (this post), my race (affirmative action thread), or my social status (affirmative action thread).
Posts: 183 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Cav, dude, seriously, I thought you were older than that. I was teasing about you being a teenager. However, I don't think a graduated pay scale is really a bad idea. Teens generally don't have experience. They can only work certain hours, as an employer, I used to have to go over all the teenagers schedules and make sure they were only working certain hours and had less than the maximum hours allowed a week. I also had to train them, not just train them for the job, but also train them in common sense things like showing up for work on time, wearing the proper attire, not talking to their friends instead of working, you know, basic work ethics. Now, if I have to take all that extra time for some kid who will quit at the drop of a hat, because after all, they don't have to work to eat and have a roof over his heads, why shouldn't I pay him less?
Secondly, did you know that men used to get raises every time they had a kid? Think about that. The single/married but childless man would make less than the married guy with kids! Oh, the unfairness of it all! Give me a break. Life sucks. It always has, it always will. It's unfair. Always has been, always will be. You're lucky your a guy. You should try being a woman. Even being a woman thirty years ago sucked more than it does now. Did you know that my mother-in-law, who was a teacher, couldn't get a credit card in her own name when she got divorced? Do you know why? Because she was a woman! She made more money that her ex-husband, but he could get one and she couldn't. And the only reason she finally got approved for a mortgage was because her uncle talked to a fellow "lodge" member who worked at a bank.
I seriously don't think teens should be paid less. I just thought your outrage was a bit ridiculous. Think about it. Many states already have graduated licenses for kids. They limit the hours of the day and hours per week kids can work. Why shouldn't we graduate their pay? I can see why the thought might anger you, but it's not going to happen, so suck it up dude. It's a theoretical discussion.
quote:Just tell me straight up, do you think it's okay to abuse the freedoms of one group to socially further another, cause that's the impression I get from your post in this topic and others.
Um, when that group has abused the freedoms of the other group to advance in the first place? Yeah. Once again, sorry dude, but if you'd like someone to blame for that, take it up with either your ancestors, or they system that's in place right now that gives you advantages that you haven't even begun to realize.
quote:I hope you're not trying to imply this is what I said, cause I definitely didn't. . . This is what is unfair in my eyes, doing the same exact work and being paid less.
Uh, no, not really. I've trained hundreds of kids for whom it was their first job. Trust me, none of them were doing the same job as the rest of the people. And just by hiring them, I had to do a lot of extra work to make sure we were staying within the law. Oh, and another thing. With older employees, I could pretty much make them work whenever I wanted. Yeah, we always tried really hard to give people the hours they wanted, but sometimes, I'd need shifts covered and there was no one else that could do it. We rotated around who was going to get stuck with the crappy shifts, but you know what? Our younger teens didn't have to work those crappy shifts. Either they already had 20 hours, or they couldn't work that late, or they had homework/family obligations. . . So, why should an 18 year old who has to work till 3 am at McDonald's only be getting paid as much as a 15 year old who can only work 20 hours a week and has to be off by 7 pm on weeknights?
quote: Try actually refuting some of my points instead of just attacking my age (this post), my race (affirmative action thread), or my social status (affirmative action thread).
Dude, don't take things so personally. I don't even know who you are. I make smart ass comments. It's what I do. I have no idea how old you are, what race you are or what your social status is. Hell, I don't even know what you mean by social status. It looks like you've been at Hatrack a year, but you only have 150 posts. If you've been lurking that long, you know my posting style. I'm kinda hard to miss with over 6,000 posts. You on the other hand, haven't made enough for me to even know how to spell your name without having to look back at it. Get over yourself. Post more. We'll get to know you and then I'll attack your arguments based on your age, race and social status. Till then, whatever you are inferring from my posts is just that. Your inference, not my implication. I just make snide comments. If the shoe happens to fit, it's a coincidence. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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There weren't any google references in that post.
*waits for snide comment*
I have a BA in English which I think is a nearly useless degree. I have plenty of marketable skills but all acquired through jobs and volunteer work I did in high school and college. I make 24,500 a year with a bachelor's. For what I do (bachelor's level human services) this is actually good pay. I'm getting my master's now and in three years when I have my MSW, I'll finally make somewhere in the low 30's.
Obviously money-wise, I'm in the wrong field.
I don't understand how families could make ends meet on minimum wage. When I do the math, I make somewhere around $11/hr. I got a job at a women's shelter my senior year in college and they offered me $7/hr. I did the math and figured that working full time on that salary, I couldn't support myself. I have no choice but to support myself as I'm estranged from my family (long story).
So I had to go looking. I found a job in "nearby" Lawrence, MA for $10 something an hour. Despite the 30-45-60 min commute (YOU Deal with traffic on 93 South in NH and MA, hellish hours (forced to work 24 hours straight at one point), hellish parts of the job (I was bitten, punched, kicked, scratched, etc, usually daily), crappy supervisors (folks who had no idea what they were doing, ego-driven to the point of their ego over children's safety, Master's level vs. Bachelor's level, etc) I kept the job for nine months because I couldn't find anything that paid more than $9 an hour.
No one really tells you how expensive it is to be a grownup. Rent, food, gas, car, utilities, student loans (paid for school on my own), computer loan (had to get one for school), clothing, healthcare, incidentals (do you want to go to a movie with friends?). I lived check to check, most times not quite squeaking by. Luckily, I have a landlord who is a great guy and those rough spots would let me pay what I could pay when I could pay. I stopped doing much photography for nearly a year because I couldn't afford to buy/develop film. I also really didn't have time with that commute and working 60 hrs/week.
Why didn't anyone warn me that being grownup sucks so much!?
(I told my son the other day that he could get a job, right out of highschool, where his dad works. He could live at home for 5 years, as most students these days are on the 5 year college plan, and when all his friends are graduating from college and $30-60,000 in debt, if he saved his money, he'd have close to a hundred grand in the bank. I doubt it will happen though. Kids think they know everything and can't wait to get out on their own.)
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I have 2 friends that are medical doctors. Each graduated with about $200,000 or so of debt. But their income will far surpass that over their career.
College is an investment for some and a cost for others depending on the degree and level of education. But in all honesty, one of my doctor friends still lives paycheck to paycheck. Sure they may make $10,000 a month, but student loans, mortgages, taxes, car loans, and other bills nearly consume that amount of income. The problem is that the vast amount of Americans tend to spend what they make, and save money as an afterthought. Heck, many do not have money left to save because of how the economic cycle is stacked against them.
Breaking the debt cycle was very hard for me personally to do. But that is another story.
Kayla your point was a good one about saving money instead of coming out of college in debt, but I still value a college education and hope that with perseverence and determination, the majority of Americans can turn the cost of their education into an investment.
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Alucard, I agree. A college education is a great thing. If my son decides that there is something he wants to do and he needs to go to college to do it, I'd be all for it. However, as of now, he has no idea what he wants to do. Somedays it's a cop, somedays it's work with his dad. Also, remember he has a pervasive devlopmental delay. I don't know how that will affect him when he's older, but right now, I'd love it if he lived at home for a while and saved a bunch of money, so he can buy a house and have some security. I worry about his future. Stability is important to him, as are routines. Maybe someday he'll catch up and want to do something really interesting, but having lived in Kansas all his life, he seems to be content to be. . . well, you know. . . countrified. I just don't think he'll ever be in a highly skilled job. He's more of a laid back, do what he's told kinda kid. So, I don't see the point in wasting the money for college if he's just going to end up in a relatively unskilled job.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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