posted
Well, if you'd READ the factcheck website, you'd see that he was probably missing from the closed door meetings as well.
Read the post.
Oh, and that's overlooking the Ads claiming Kerry was "Chairman" of the intelligence committee, which it was actually BOB Kerry.
Oh and the "Public" meetings do in fact hold more information than the one page summaries in the Newspaper contains (which is Kerry's source for info apparently).
See you can read or watch a 2 minute review of a movie, but those that actually see it, actually know more about it.
But hey, if you think voting for a guy who's briefing on the war is CNN, MSNBC, ABC and CBS, etc.
Be my guest. I'll vote for the guy that get's military briefing on a daily basis in the Oval Office.
posted
Yeah, for those he only has access to the reports of what happened, the minutes (which must be recorded under federal law), and all the paper made available.
Not a single place does that article suggest Kerry's non-attendence lessened his access to the general reports available to members of congress, much less the reports available to members of the intelligence committee (who not only have additional access, but have the authority to request certain information from various sources).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Chad, thanks for the link. Not quite what I was looking for, though. Please tell me why you think that Kerry is not informed of the information from those meetings through other means. Unless, of course, I'm misunderstanding your position.
Edit: fugu beat me to it.
[ October 10, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
I think we should measure prayers by their success. For example, if you pray for my health and well being because you love me as one of your fellow men and I pray for a Mars bar that I then receive and eat only to get fat, clearly I am more pious.
Or maybe we should make you write your prayers down on a piece of paper and line up a bunch of people and have them guess what the prayers were. Whoever has more people know what they prayed for wins.
Or maybe we should each pray to God to tell us, on a scale of 1 to 10, how pious we are. The people who rate higher are more pious simultaneously with those who are humble enough to report that they ranked lower. Everyone wins!
Or maybe you should have a prayer card. And every time you successfully pray you get a sticker. Every 10 stickers means you get one prayer free!
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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In their eagerness to dismiss the Bush ad's charges, Kerry campaign aides claimed that the senator had been vice chairman of the intelligence committee, which isn't true. In fact, former Senator Bob Kerrey of Nebraska was vice chairman of the panel for several years while Kerry was a more junior member of the panel. John Kerry left the committee in January 2001. He never served as vice chairman, a committee spokesman confirmed to us.
The erroneous claim appeared in several places on the Kerry website, one dating back to January, 2004, and another in a posting Aug. 13 to rebut the Bush ad. It said, "Kerry is an Experienced Leader in the Intelligence Field – John Kerry served on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for eight years and is the former Vice Chairman of the Committee."Kerry senior adviser Tad Devine told Fox News, which first reported the discrepancy, that the campaign would be "happy to correct the record" if needed:
Devine: I'll have to check with the issues people. It was my understanding he was. But if that's, you know -- but if that's not a factual case, I'm sure we will be happy to correct the record.
Two days later the erroneous claim was still appearing on the Kerry website, however. On Aug. 17 The Associated Press quoted campaign spokesman Michael Meehan conceding the error, adding: "John Kerry, Bob Kerrey -- similar names."
That quote from the article made me laugh.
That's like Claiming George Bush Jr. Invaded Iraq the first time...since...you know..same names and all....
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Or maybe you should have a prayer card. And every time you successfully pray you get a sticker. Every 10 stickers means you get one prayer free!
No, no, Bob... Obviously, after 10 prayers, you get a free "Rub it in Some Bastard Heathen's Face" card!
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
*waits patiently for either a rebuttal or admission of error on at least the presidential candidate briefing issue*
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote: Please tell me why you think that Kerry is not informed of the information from those meetings through other means. Unless, of course, I'm misunderstanding your position.
Edit: fugu beat me to it.
Because he's provided no proof or reason to believe that he is. Everything he says echoes News Articles and nothing he has ever said, ever even hints at information that wasn't known through the media.
I think the guy gets his briefings on the world from the News organizations.
Give me the daily military briefings in the Oval Office by the military personell anyday over Kerry's uninformed...no wait...he did (or is going to get) one multi-hour CIA session. So I guess that will give him all the info right...
posted
That kinda assumes that, given the same information, he would have made the same observations as the president. In fact, that kinda assumes that, given the same information, anyone would make the same observations, doesn't it?
Tell me, is it possible at all for intelligent people to receive the same report and have different conclusions?
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote: *waits patiently for either a rebuttal or admission of error on at least the presidential candidate briefing issue*
Read your own article:
quote: Though most candidate briefings have been limited to a single, multi-hour session,
Well, that's it for me. He's been briefed for a couple of hours so he must know everything there is to know about the War in Iraq. (although this is a CIA briefing...not a commander in chief military briefing).
Some phrases to remember: CIA briefing. Military Briefing. CIA general world intelligence briefing. Military Brass Iraq War specific briefing. One Multi hour briefing session. Daily Military Brass briefing sessions on Iraq alone.
Let's not confuse one CIA debriefing with daily Military Brass briefings specific to the war on Iraq.
No offense, but anyone who thinks Kerry knows a fraction of what is happening Iraq of the Commander in Chief, is...well....let's be nice...
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
So in order for Kerry to be informed enough to be president he'd need the briefings that Bush gets? And Kerry can't get those because he isn't president. Therefore, only Bush is informed enough to be president?
Posts: 104 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
First, you're the one asserting you don't get information if you're not present. Its up to you to prove it, and you have offered ( *counts* ) 0 pieces of evidence for that.
Second, how on earth would you know whether or not what he's saying reflects information from other sources? Are you privy to said information? And were Kerry or Bush's statements to reveal direct (or often, any) knowledge of much of what they hear, it would be a major breach of national security, so I'd rather hope much of what Bush says doesn't betray the knowledge gained in his briefings.
Also, one, multi-hour briefing? Did you even read multiple sentences in the article? It uses, among other things, the plural word "briefings" which should clue you in that there are more than one. Heck, the very quote I quoted alludes directly to them extending over several long days.
Oh, and you're the one who childishly suggests Kerry gains his information from newspaper summaries. I suggested he could read the minutes, which are a typed up document relaying the totality of what happened in the meeting, chronologically. So he loses no access to such information.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Oh, and shall we recall (one of) your original, blithely-made assertion? You know, that Kerry had access to no intelligence beyond that available to a member of Congress?
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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You do realize that candidate GWB attended his intelligence briefing at his Crawford, Texas ranch right?
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Fugu you've provided "0" pieces of evidence that Kerry has received other information. You're assumptions are as your claims that mine are.
quote: So in order for Kerry to be informed enough to be president he'd need the briefings that Bush gets? And Kerry can't get those because he isn't president. Therefore, only Bush is informed enough to be president?
On the war in Iraq he would need to be. That's the problem, Kerry talks like he "really" knows whats going on over there better than the president, which is absurd since the President gets DAILY military briefings on Iraq alone.
Kerry has LESS information on Iraq and says it's a mess. Bush has MORE information on Iraq and says it's hard work but that we're making progress.
Why should I believe Kerry? Because he spews the same info the News Organizations do? That doesn't speak well for him, it speaks poorly for him in my opinion.
Also, another reason I think Kerry get's his news from the Media?
Recently he attacked the Bush Administration for "knowing" months ago that there was going to be a shortage of flu vaccines and he BASED his attack of a NEWS ARTICLE from Britain that said they had informed our government of the "Problems". Kerry took his PRESS BRIEFING as fact and spewed it on Saturday after the Debate.
But uh-oh...what's this, the Food and Drug administration has flat out denied there has been any correspondence between them and the British.
Kerry LIED and got "briefed" by the British News....
So there it is. Kerry gets his "briefings" by the Press and here is the story that backs it up.
posted
I'm new to this forum and I understand what you're talking about. Now you may think I'm just being ignorant and that is your opinion. I am 15 and am not old enough to vote yet. I have a father who is in Iraq as we speak. He is bombarded by mortars everyday. One of his men had to have his head and skull opened up so they could remove shrapnel from it. This is bad. I know that. I've been on the phone with him and I've heard explosions. Of course when this happens he hangs up and runs out but I still know he's in alot of danger.
I'm a Bush suporter (even though I'm not old enough to vote) and I think Kerry is not what this country needs.
I would gladly have my father back any day but I still think that this war is inevitable. If we are fighting a war against terrorism then we fight a war against "all" terrorism. We don't limit ourselves to just one nation (afghanistan).
Some of you may argue, "why not another nation like north Korea?" Well to that I say that NK is another threat and will be taken care of. When we were fighting a war on terrorism we are fighting everyone. If we had gone into Korea would you say "Why not Iraq?" and again we'd be in the same situatuion. Think about that then ask that question. Also Sadam was killing people, innocent people. He was a terrorist and he was practicing that. NK was not doing that to the same extent as Saddam. The invasion of Iraq was a good decision.
Kerry is saying it's the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time and that is just down right stupid. He cannot lead our armed forces as commander in chief and not believe in the war they are fightiting. At least not publicly. It isn't right.
As for what the Marines think. I know my dad believes in the war and what we're fighting for. We are fighting not for America we're fighting for Iraq and in turn that helps America. Iraq is a war zone and with every war zone chaos runs. Most of the U.S. military believes in the war. It woas probably a bunch of young soldiers who had no life so they joined. the people talked to had no life. they are the people who use to be high school drop-outs and they joined the military. Now they don't want to be in Iraq because they aren't supposed to be there. They are the kids who don't believe in America the non-believers. I've met these kinds of soldiers and they disgust me.
these are the opinions of a fifteen year old. If you disregard them so be it but I believe in them.
quote: "We now know the administration knew ahead of time that there wasn't going to be enough vaccine," Kerry asserted as he campaigned in Ohio. The administration has denied it had any warning.
And
quote: "The administration, we've learned today, is playing fast and loose again with the facts and the truth to the American people because they pretended and they've acted surprised that we didn't have the vaccines," Kerry said at a nursing school. "Rather than tell the truth to the American people, they've acted surprised and pretended it just sort of happened on their watch.
Kerry did not elaborate, but a story from London in Saturday's editions of the Washington Post quoted British health officials as saying their American counterparts were told in mid-September that problems at a drug manufacturing plant in northwest England could disrupt vaccine supplies to the United States.
A Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) statement disputed the British account, saying "there had been no communication" between the U.S. and British governments on the matter until the British government acted earlier this week.
Kerry gets his briefings from a London Based Newspaper....that turned out to be wrong.
He certainly wasn't briefed that information from reliable sources.
At least I can feel confident watching the news that I know as much as he does about world events. (what a moron)
posted
AbeLincoln, I pray for your father's safe return and thank him, and you, for your sacrifices for my country and the Irai's and for the future security of my children.
I hope your family is taken care of as well as can be expected.
U.S. officials said they expected only that Britain would withhold a small amount of the vaccine because of the presence of a bacterium called Serratia, a common contaminant in labs that can cause urinary tract infections, wound infections and pneumonia. Just two weeks ago, Americans were assured that U.S. monitoring showed no contamination during retesting of the rest.
"We anticipated the loss of 6 to 8 million doses. We did not anticipate the license would be suspended," said Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson.
So, according to this, the U.S. did know in advance about the possibility of fewer vaccines available, but not nearly to the extent that Kerry is charging.
Sigh. Couldn't we just get ballots with platforms and summarized voting records on them, no names, and eliminate all the political posturing?
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Welcome to the board Abe. I hope your father returns safely. Please remember that just because some of us do not agree with the war's goals or the way it is executed, it does not mean any of us are ungrateful of your family's sacrifice.
quote:It woas probably a bunch of young soldiers who had no life so they joined. the people talked to had no life. they are the people who use to be high school drop-outs and they joined the military. Now they don't want to be in Iraq because they aren't supposed to be there. They are the kids who don't believe in America the non-believers. I've met these kinds of soldiers and they disgust me.
Is this your idea of supporting the troops?
BTW, you need a high school diploma to join the Marines.Marines.comPosts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Actually, I rather think a dated article (its from shortly after the DNC convention) which states there are minor delays in the additional, special briefings for Kerry every single major candidate has gotten access to in the past half century would suggest that Kerry had now received those briefings.
Its certainly a piece of evidence.
If you want, I'll track down a specific reference to him receiving said briefings, but only if you want to insult your own intelligence by doing so (I assumed you could infer from the article that Kerry had since received such briefings, particularly as if he still had not the article would have been reduced in google rankings by the articles on such a huge event as that would have been).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
You know, while we do tolerate extensive bashing on political things, calling Presidential candidates who have long records in the United States Senate, have served their country in war, and have lead successful political movements morons is generally frowned upon around here.
Many even think it reflects on the poster's own intelligence.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Everything he says echoes News Articles and nothing he has ever said, ever even hints at information that wasn't known through the media
?? Whoever said this: much of an intelligence briefing a senator, president or presidential candidate receives is classified, so refererring to it overtly can be a federal felony. Kennedy was accused of this during the 1960 Kennedy/Nixon debates, I don't think it was refferred to a prosecutor though. After all, Kennedy won.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote: You know, while we do tolerate extensive bashing on political things, calling Presidential candidates who have long records in the United States Senate, have served their country in war, and have lead successful political movements morons is generally frowned upon around here.
Many even think it reflects on the poster's own intelligence.
You know, while we do tolerate extensive bashing on political things, calling serving Presidents who have long records of serving their country as President in sucessful wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, Governor and in the Military when younger, "Liar" or "buffon" or, "pick your favorite bush-hater phrase" is generally frowned upon by anyone intelligent.
Many even think it reflects on the poster's own intelligence.
posted
Are you saying that fugu did those things? And how does whoever you're referring to saying that make it okay for you to do it to?
Posts: 104 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
One more thing fugu. The war in the Iraq continues on a daily basis. Things happen on a daily basis. Progress and failures happen on a daily basis.
The president is militarily briefed on a daily basis.
John Kerry is not....but we see by his statements he watches the news.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
To be fair, so would the Bush lovers. And all those zillions of people who, wisely, are somewhere between the two extremes.
I'd be in the section of people who are sick of the whole mud-slinging, propaganda process -- on both sides.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote: Are you saying that fugu did those things? And how does whoever you're referring to saying that make it okay for you to do it to?
I'm saying the same thing he's saying. That's what I'm saying. Have a problem with what I said, but not with what he said?
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Luckily I have never said any such. I have asserted, once recently, that the Bush campaign has lied, but I can prove that .
Also, I don't really follow your statement, this President has not served this country in any war in Iraq or Afghanistan (whether he has served in other ways is arguable. He has not served in any war while being President, as that rather requires being in the military. Being commander in Chief is not being in the military).
By no reasonable measure of political careers has his record of service been long. Heck, by no reasonalemeasure of military careers has his service been long, he got out before a minimal stint in the guard was even finished.
You, however, have said Kerry is a moron. I, conversely, have several times defended Bush's intelligence.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Chad, you used the term "moron" to describe Kerry. Fugu did not use "liar" or "buffoon" to describe Bush. That is why there is more of a problem with what you said than with what he said. If fugu *had* used those terms, I don't think anyone would have taken issues with what you said.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
So basically, what you're saying, is that if something is not included in Mr. Bush's briefings than he is completely unaware of it? That's the impression I had anyway, good to have it confirmed. If something is embarrassing to someone in his cabinet, or a hindrance to an agreed-upon course, or inconvenient to previous public statements, it simply doesn't get in there and therefore doesn't exist. Wow! Easy!
I don't think the president should make his decisions based on popular opinion, or get his facts solely or even mostly from the media. But sometimes the media is the only avenue for truth to get out.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Care to provide one place where I'm sayin' what you're saying?
Furthermore, if you consider your own witty assumptions to be proof, I highly suggest you never go into any field requiring logical reasoning.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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