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But there were two different men, right? One who died, but wasn't the one who moved someone else?
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I'm pretty sure if Belle was in the same position and found out that her daughter was wandering the streets for a few days she'd just sigh and say "Oh well, that's just the way it is. Can't break my oath just for my daughter."
Nice trying to make it sound like you give two craps about her problem, super-mommy.
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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Boon
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jebus, please alter or remove your post. That was personal, and totally uncalled-for.
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Boon
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More of the story: the man who died was the 14 year old girl's father. His wife is the evil-step-woman. Turns out there's a son, as well, and there is now a custody case pending for him...very complicated situation.
The soon-to-be-ex is the one who moved.
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And he moved with a child who is not biologically his? Did he adopt this child while married to her?
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hey jebus - Belle isn't in the military. She knows she could never leave her kids to go overseas. That doesn't make me a super-mommy, it just makes me different from this woman and others who choose a career that can take them away from their kids. Not the word "choose". No one forced her into this.
And you'll note in my first post I said there are systems in place to handle emergency situations. The army did give her two weeks emergency leave to go take care of the situation. And as I said before, the army has social workers and other civilian contractors whose job it is to assist in family crises.
So get personal with me all you want - it doesn't bother me. It doesn't chagne the fact that this woman knew the requirements of her job and chose not to fulfill them. Therefore, she should suffer the consequences. Whether it's desertion or AWOL, or whatever.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Wow, looks like I missed all the fun in this one. I'll put my 2 cents in and live on.
1) Deserter.....Like Boon "Googled", I would as well term it as AWOL. What we call U/A in the Navy.
2) I think her Commander is a prick, but I don't know what his circumstances were. Not a single one of us is important enough that we should just have to be there. It would have been permissable for her to be granted a few extra days or a week. Sheesh, we sent a guy home (what was left of it) 3 months after 9/11 because his house burned down. His wife had made it out ok and she had what little belongings left in her car.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Boon, AWOL is a form of desertion, if it goes on past a final notice. If she has repeatedly refused to present herself upon being commanded to do so, she has deserted.
There are factors that have to be considered, but they can't just let her off for this no matter what the reasoning was behind it.
Was the treatment she recieved considered optionsal? If so she doesn't really have much of a defense, but if she can get MD's to certify her medical problems she might have a small chance of a Gneral discharge rather than a Dishonorable one.
I hope I am wrong for your sake, and hers, but I don't really see how it could work any other way.
quote: Many people believe that if one is absent without authority for greater than 30 days, the offense changes from AWOL to Desertion, but that's not quite true.
The primary difference between the two offenses is "intent to remain away permanently." If one intends to return to "military control," one is guilty of "AWOL," under Article 86, not Desertion, under Article 85, even if they were away for ten years. The confusion derives from the fact that, if a member is absent without authority for longer than 30 days, the government (court-martial) is allowed to assume there was no intent to return. Therefore, the burden of proof that the accused intended to someday return to "military control" lies with the defense
It is said she intends to return. Therefore it does not fit as deserter. I have had a few deserters from my ship. It was just because they were stupid people really. One was having a time of it until he got pulled over for speeding (has a history of this 20 times over). So we got him back. He somehow left again about a week later. Another one his parents turned him in (it was the how and stuff on his going U/A that was a trip).
Anyway, that was my 3rd cent. I'm gonna start charging somewhere around 5 cents I think.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Boon
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At 5am Easter morning, the police took her away.
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quote: "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me , according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
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My point was the last point of your sentence...that she is the one who has to prove her intent to return, and that is tough to do. Intent involves more than just saying that she will someday, and the UCMJ states that the US government's default position on these issues is de\sertion, unless proved otherwise.
I hope she and her children will be OK, and that she manages to convince the military of her intent to return to duty one day. My heart goes out to her and her family, and God bless your mom for helping her out in these tough times, Boon.
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Boon, keep me informed on how the child(ren?) is/are doing. (She only has the one, right?) I hope arrangements have been made by the mother for custody in case she's gone long-term. If that turns out to be the case, and help is needed, I would like to know, there may be something I can do (clothes, school supplies, etc.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Boon
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My mother has legal guardianship of the two girls, aged 10 and 14. The son is in Texas with the deceased father's widow.
She and the girls were living in a two bedroom mobile home with beds and little else. My parents live in a travel trailer. Now my mother has to move in with the girls, find furniture for them, get plates, pans, etc for the kitchen...not to mention feeding the girls, enrolling them in school...it's such a mess. The whole thing just sucks all over.
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My favorite part is that this woman is getting slammed both for being a bad solider, and for being a bad mother for enlisting in the first place.
God Bless America.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I don't think she is a bad mother, although there are plenty of concerns that every person who enlists has to consider, and this is at the top of the list.
But point blank, she has refused legal orders repeatedly, and has placed herself above the system that all soldiers have to respect. This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and there are a lot of things in place to help soldiers in these types of situations, so I have a hard time believing she was without options other than her current course of action. I don't know the specifics of this case as I am not personally involved, unlike other people here, but I was in the military so I do have an idea about the responsibilities of being a in the military.
My heart goes out to her, and I hope that she gets some sort of discharge and is able to take custody of her children as soon as possible. That is the best she can hope for at this point, I am afraid.
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Who slammed her for being a bad mother? I specifically said my choice does not make me a better mother than her.
I think taking her away on Easter morning is a bit over the top. Here's how I would prefer it be handled: Convict her of desertion or AWOL or whatever, but don't make her have to serve jail time. Dishonorably discharge her from the military, and send her on her way. She would not have to serve time and be away from her kids but she also doesn't escape responsibility or consequences for her actions. That conviction and dishonorable discharge will be something that has to be disclosed on every job application and will follow her the rest of her life. So there are repercussions for her actions, but she doesn't have to go to jail.
The victims here are those kids - they lost a father, and now their mother has been carried off to jail.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Holidays are prime time to find people at home...it is common both in the military and in law enforcment to do things like this at those times, when people aren't expecting it.
That being said, I believe Boon said she was in touch with her unit, and they knew where she was and where she was recieveing medical treatments.
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Kudos to your mother for stepping up to the plate, Boon.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Boon
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She's home.
She's been at Ft. Sill. She's managed to prove that she was IN THE HOSPITAL when she was supposed ot report, and that she was IN THE HOSPITAL and IN TOUCH with her superiors at the time they declared her AWOL. So she's exonerated and was sent to Tulsa today on Greyhound.
She went straight to her base in Broken Arrow, where they said something to the effect of "we don't know what to do with you. You'll have to go back to Ft. Sill Monday to be treated for your medical condition."
So, they sent her home but she has to go back Monday. Whatever.
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Ha, instead of prison, they've sentenced her to administrative hell. She could become the Flying Dutchwoman of the Interstates.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Contact with her superior officer will go a long way to establishing that her intent was not to separate permanently from the service. I hope everything works out for this family.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Yeah, it sounds like AWOL instead of desertion at this point. Which is still a big deal - and it still could lead to significant trouble for her.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Boon
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No, she's not in trouble anymore at all.
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I'm glad her kids have their mom back. I hope she gets the medical issues resolved soon. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Boon
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Nothing new, but this is the story that aired on Monday. The last few words were cut off, but it ended something like: "Russell hopes to retire with a full 20 years of service."
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So, for how long will your mother have custody of the daughter?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Boon
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My mother has custody of both daughters, indefinitely, and is living with them. Teresa can come home between treatments, but with the price of gas, she won't be making the trip all that often. And once she has her medical stuff fixed, she's still a reserve and will serve - in whatever capacity is required of her.
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