Seriously though, you cannot hope that all intellegent life will resemble us, I believe in the Law of Mediocrity. If evolution proceeds here at breakneck speed, which it seems too, then so it is everywhere in the universe. Life will develop and evolve anywhere where it is possible to the limits of the available resorces. Wherever that means intellegence is possible it will evolve in whatever form it needs to to adapt to the local environment.
Tounges of flame touching a thousand thousand worlds.
I had forgotten that quote from the Book of Mormon, I wonder if it predates science fiction speculation about life on other worlds? It seems to me that there was some French Satire that explored the possibility ages ago but I cannot recall the facts of it.
The quote is from the Pearl of Great Price, not from the BoM, Bean Counter. Well before the twentieth century.
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BC, the people that are arguing that aliens would be godoid don't believe in evolution, or at least not in unguided evolution, so your argument isn't really going to hold any weight with them. I agree with you on that point myself, but it isn't going to be a compelling argument to people who don't share your base assumptions going into the argument.
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quote:D&C 88:25 - And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law— 26 Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.
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BC: Unless God guided evolution in order to come up with specific outcomes. This is my personal belief, personally. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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That's one reason why I loved Babylon 5, because it dealt with Earth religions interacting with aliens. Especially an episode in Season One where Sinclair introduces the Big Four alien ambassadors to reps of all of Humanity's religions. Such a beautiful scene!
quote:I think that it would lead us to the point where we had to extend our definition of what has a soul. We might push God back up a bit and demote Jesus to "God's Human Representative" Leaving the Spirit as Universal.
I think this is a good way for Christianity to deal with contact.
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Thanks, ludosti. There is also God and Enoch's conversation where they see the earth suffering because of the wickedness on it. Enoch's strongest sympathy is with the earth there, not with the living beings on the earth. He weeps for the earth. Why weep on behalf of something that can't perceive?
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You know, this discussion has gotten me thinking about how it would impact my worldview if we made contact and they *were* humanoid. That would really blow my mind. What would be the possible explanations? Feel free to add to the list--I'm sure I'm missing some--but so far I've come up with
1. Kat and bev's theory 2. Either they are transplanted stock from Earth, or we've been wrong about or terrestrial origins, and we're transplanted stock from somewhere else. 3. The aliens are capable of shapeshifting either consciously or unconsciously. 4. Hmmm...I know I had a number 4. What was it?
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I agree that evolution is guided, in fact I believe that the same force that allows for the transformation of the self is responsible for guiding evolution. However I have always felt that Jesus was just a very refined conduit for that force (Holy Ghost, Spirit, Holy Spirit) The product of good breeding and training.
The fact is that some alien life form might actually be more duarable and better able to handle large quantities of the spirit. I have heard that encounters with the Spirit caused Joseph Smith to experience seizures, and this is not atypical of holy men. My own encounters have exhausted me even when I was in fantastic shape. it feels like energy flow to me.
The universe is a pragmatic place, and if say gravity were 1.5 G's then you would have to seriously modify the human form to make it practical on another world. Smaller lungs, shorter, many things. It is easy to see that an alien might no more resemble a man then a dog does.
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Actually bev it goes back farther than that. I'm drawing a blank on what SF there is that goes back further than that, but I'll look it up tonight if it doesn't occur to me first.
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Actually bev it goes back farther than that. I'm drawing a blank on what SF there is that goes back further than that, but I'll look it up tonight if it doesn't occur to me first.
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I agree that evolution is guided, in fact I believe that the same force that allows for the transformation of the self is responsible for guiding evolution. However I have always felt that Jesus was just a very refined conduit for that force (Holy Ghost, Spirit, Holy Spirit) The product of good breeding and training.
The fact is that some alien life form might actually be more duarable and better able to handle large quantities of the spirit. I have heard that encounters with the Spirit caused Joseph Smith to experience seizures, and this is not atypical of holy men. My own encounters have exhausted me even when I was in fantastic shape. it feels like energy flow to me.
The universe is a pragmatic place, and if say gravity were 1.5 G's then you would have to seriously modify the human form to make it practical on another world. Smaller lungs, shorter, many things. It is easy to see that an alien might no more resemble a man then a dog does.
posted
I agree that evolution is guided, in fact I believe that the same force that allows for the transformation of the self is responsible for guiding evolution. However I have always felt that Jesus was just a very refined conduit for that force (Holy Ghost, Spirit, Holy Spirit) The product of good breeding and training.
The fact is that some alien life form might actually be more duarable and better able to handle large quantities of the spirit. I have heard that encounters with the Spirit caused Joseph Smith to experience seizures, and this is not atypical of holy men. My own encounters have exhausted me even when I was in fantastic shape. it feels like energy flow to me.
The universe is a pragmatic place, and if say gravity were 1.5 G's then you would have to seriously modify the human form to make it practical on another world. Smaller lungs, shorter, many things. It is easy to see that an alien might no more resemble a man then a dog does.
posted
I agree that evolution is guided, in fact I believe that the same force that allows for the transformation of the self is responsible for guiding evolution. However I have always felt that Jesus was just a very refined conduit for that force (Holy Ghost, Spirit, Holy Spirit) The product of good breeding and training.
The fact is that some alien life form might actually be more duarable and better able to handle large quantities of the spirit. I have heard that encounters with the Spirit caused Joseph Smith to experience seizures, and this is not atypical of holy men. My own encounters have exhausted me even when I was in fantastic shape. it feels like energy flow to me.
The universe is a pragmatic place, and if say gravity were 1.5 G's then you would have to seriously modify the human form to make it practical on another world. Smaller lungs, shorter, many things. It is easy to see that an alien might no more resemble a man then a dog does.
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You know, this discussion has gotten me thinking about how it would impact my worldview if we made contact and they *were* humanoid. That would really blow my mind. What would be the possible explanations? Feel free to add to the list--I'm sure I'm missing some--but so far I've come up with
1. Kat and bev's theory 2. Either they are transplanted stock from Earth, or we've been wrong about or terrestrial origins, and we're transplanted stock from somewhere else. 3. The aliens are capable of shapeshifting either consciously or unconsciously. 4. Hmmm...I know I had a number 4. What was it?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
You know, this discussion has gotten me thinking about how it would impact my worldview if we made contact and they *were* humanoid. That would really blow my mind. What would be the possible explanations? Feel free to add to the list--I'm sure I'm missing some--but so far I've come up with
1. Kat and bev's theory 2. Either they are transplanted stock from Earth, or we've been wrong about or terrestrial origins, and we're transplanted stock from somewhere else. 3. The aliens are capable of shapeshifting either consciously or unconsciously. 4. Some intelligence has designed them to look the same as we do (I'm not talking about a deity here--this is distinct from kat and bev's idea)
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My former bishop was a professor of anatomy at the University I attended, and a world reknowned expert on embryology, birth defects and the drug Thalidomide. His speciality was limb formation, and he once explained to me in great detail why there could not be insectoid aliens (or any aliens with more than four limbs) based on what we know of anatomy.
It made a lot of sense, but unfortunately, I don't remember any of the details, since I was studying microbiology instead of anatomy.
sorry for the totally pointless derail. Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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I'd love to hear his explanation maui babe. Do you remember even the vaguest bit of his rationale?
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Farmgirl, I'm always confused when people say this sort of thing. People who believe that God has natural limits (like the inability to encompass paradoxes, or the unwillingness to do evil) do not believe that they are "putting" those limits on God. They believe they are "observing" limits that God already has.
It's not like the idea of "God" naturally encompasses all infinities and superlatives, and any perceived limits are placed there by human beings trying to elevate themselves or force God into a more comprehensible mold.
The idea of "God" has no natural definition. Different people define God in different ways. Attributing someone's definition of God to their own desire to "limit" Him is pretty ... I don't know, closed-minded.
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You guys aren't even taking into account that the aliens might want to learn about our religions so they can come to the earth disguised as gods and have the people bow to them!
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It had to do with how cells divide as they're multiplying. He drew a sketch of how quadrupeds vs. how arthropods form limbs.
Maybe I misstated (this discussion was about 5 or 6 years ago)... I think he was explaining why there would never be human sized arthropods, not why there would never be intelligent ones. So there could be non-quadruped aliens, they just couldn't be very big.
Of course, 'very big' is quite relative, I know. To me, an 8 inch centipede or spider is DANG big, but not hive queen/bugger nightmare big.
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I hope to see my former neighbor this summer when I visit Idaho... I'll try to remember to ask him about it then.
Edit: Interestingly, the discussion I mentioned was shortly after I'd given him Ender's Game and he and his family had read it. Our then pre-adolescent sons were fascinated with the idea of mansized bugs and the conversation grew from that.
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Regarding the original question, my religious reaction to first contact with aliens would be mostly along the lines of "Hey, how's it going out there in the universe?"
But then, I'm a taoist and we're not very concerned with hierarchies and classifications and such.
quote:I think he was explaining why there would never be human sized arthropods, not why there would never be intelligent ones. So there could be non-quadruped aliens, they just couldn't be very big.
Oh, okay. And of course, there is no reason why 6 or 8 (or whatever) limbed beings would necessarily be arthropods. I was going to point out that there are some fairly bright 6 and 8 limbed creatures floating around in our own oceans. That makes a lot more sense.
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There is also God and Enoch's conversation where they see the earth suffering because of the wickedness on it. Enoch's strongest sympathy is with the earth there, not with the living beings on the earth. He weeps for the earth. Why weep on behalf of something that can't perceive?
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