posted
I don't mind tipping in restaurants because I don't feel it's a hidden charge. I've lived with it all my life and know what to expect.
What irks me is restaurants that automatically add a gratuity onto your bill. If it's added to my bill and I get no say in how much it is, it's not a gratuity. And I have noticed that the service generally isn't as good when the tip is added to the bill.
I do understand why this is done when you have a large party. For some reason, the tip for a large party is always less. I have argued over it before though. I went to a birthday dinner once where we had 20 people together. Reservations had been made and the restaurant knew well ahead of time that a large party was coming. The service we received was horrible. Food orders were screwed up, drinks were left empty, etc. We had to practically twist the manager's arm to have him take the automatic tip off the bill and allow us to leave the tip we thought was appropriate.
Posts: 221 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: If everyone refused to tip, then we'd just have really underpaid waiters who all gave really bad service.
I'll stop tipping when those guys get minimum wage, but I don't expect anybody to make a living on 2.10 an hour.
I wonder how the minimum wage laws read. If it is very slow one night, and the wait staff averages less then minimum wage per hour, shouldn't the restaurant be forced to make up the difference?
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I do disagree that ending tipping would create worse service. I think that there are people that are naturally friendly and helpful, no matter what they are paid. Even with tipping in American culture, there are a lot of bad wait staff out there.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Well, the law is that the waiter must make enough in tips to bring them up to minimum wage level. But I can't find one that says over what time period. Do you do it daily? Usually there are enough good nights to offset a few bad ones.
So no, I don't think you'll hear anyone asking the restaurant to make up the difference, and they'd probably refuse if you did.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Originally Tips stood for "To Insure Proper (or Prompt) Service." When it was understood that that was the defenition, it was customary to tip a certain amount prior to the meal, and then if you thought that they worked hard and did an exceptional job, you tip more after. At least that way you can figure out before hand exaclty how much the meal will cost and there is nothing hidden about the charges.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: Originally Tips stood for "To Insure Proper (or Prompt) Service." When it was understood that that was the defenition, it was customary to tip a certain amount prior to the meal, and then if you thought that they worked hard and did an exceptional job, you tip more after. At least that way you can figure out before hand exaclty how much the meal will cost and there is nothing hidden about the charges.
Not to derail too much, but if I recall correctly, Snopes.com has researched the etymology of the word and dismissed that common claim.
I've heard it knocked about quite a bit before I read some of the background on Snopes.
As for me, I'm pretty sure that people who work in service industries of any sort tend to be people in positions of less power. Given that I'm also pretty sure the system(s) is going to be screwing someone, I'd rather it be me than one who serves me.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Do servers not get minimum wage plus tips in the U.S.? In Canada they must be paid minimum wage and then they receive their tips on top of that. I had no idea that this was different south of the border. That seems really wrong.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
They can get under minimum wage (which is $5.15). I thought I had heard they had to be reimbursed if they got under minnimum wage with tips, but I think I may be wrong on that. I know I have heard $2.20 as a common wage ammong waitresses in my town.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
$2.15 is the minimum wage for wait staff (not sure if this is texas specific). technically, if a waiter does not make at least min. wage they will be reimbursed. but this assumes that waiters accurately report their tips to the IRS, which i can guarantee you they do not. and nobody wants to get caught lieing to the IRS for 3 bucks.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:If everyone refused to tip, then we'd just have really underpaid waiters who all gave really bad service.
Not for long. Some restaurants would figure out that if they paid well for good service, their customers return more often. Pretty soon, they'd all be doing it to some extent or another.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Busy restaurants where I live are busy in spite of bad service, not because of good service. Most people don't go to restaurants because of the waiters, they go for the food. If the food's good and the prices are reasonable, you'll have a crowd no matter how bad your service is.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Not for long. Some restaurants would figure out that if they paid well for good service, their customers return more often. Pretty soon, they'd all be doing it to some extent or another.
Pretty much. Almost everyone I know in wait service is in it for the money, except for those few who are in it because (pardon me) they lack the skills or motivation to do anything else.
quote:Most people don't go to restaurants because of the waiters, they go for the food. If the food's good and the prices are reasonable, you'll have a crowd no matter how bad your service is.
I think you'd be surprised at how bad the service would get if the wait help was making less than $3.00 an hour and had no incentive to do a better job, and how quickly that would affect a restaurant's business.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Teshi: About hotels: I've never been to a hotel where there has been anyone to carry my bags... nor have I needed to have anyone.
I didn't even know tipping cleaning staff in hotels was ever done!
Envelopes are left in almost all hotel rooms. I worked at a Howard Johnson in Ocean City, MD. Not a high class hotel, but very expensive in the summer. I would say about 25% of the guests left tips.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by solo: Do servers not get minimum wage plus tips in the U.S.? In Canada they must be paid minimum wage and then they receive their tips on top of that. I had no idea that this was different south of the border. That seems really wrong.
Its the reason we feel so pressured to tip well.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I work in the Hilton Americas, the largest hotel in houston and everyone gets tipped at some point. the only ones who expect a tip and should be given one every time however are the bell staff and the wait staff.
and mr porteiro head, if there is no one depriving you of your livlihood because of a thread, i suggest you not be the first. a waiter lives off his/her tips. you could be taking food out of a childs mouth.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:I think you'd be surprised at how bad the service would get if the wait help was making less than $3.00 an hour and had no incentive to do a better job, and how quickly that would affect a restaurant's business.
I don't think I would be.
You don't understand -- there are restaurants here, and all over the South where the service simply cannot get worse. Sometimes you only see the waiter when they come to take your order and never again. And then they get it wrong. You have to flag down a busboy for a refill, you have to go to the counter to pay your check, and if you want to change something forget it.
Yet, if the food is good and cheap, and the place has a good location it does not make a difference. People are resigned to not getting good service, and consequently they probably don't tip as well. Guess what that leads to? Waiters going elsewhere. And guess what kind of employees you get once you have a reputation for not being tipped well? Yep, it just gets worse. I can't see how cutting tipping out would make the service worse everywhere.
I'm sure it would make it worse in a lot of places, and a lot of waiters would find a new field. But I don't look for it to happen anytime soon. And since I don't like it when people make $2.10 an hour, I'll probably be the last one to stop tipping.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:and mr porteiro head, if there is no one depriving you of your livlihood because of a thread, i suggest you not be the first. a waiter lives off his/her tips. you could be taking food out of a childs mouth.
Every economic decision could be taking food out of a child's mouth. I shop at a local store instead of Wal-Mart? The bottom-rung employee might lose his job. I feel like a steak? I'm depriving the vegitarian restaurant of my money.
And I'm not trying to deprive anybody of their livlihood -- I'm just saying that if they need that money from me to pay their employees, put it into the price of the meal/service, and get rid of tipping which to me feels manipulative.
posted
i'm curious, how many people posting anti-tip sentiments have ever had a tip based income job?
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I haven't, but my hubby has. Which is why I always leave a fair tip, and better than that if the service is good. But I resent it. It's ridiculous - what was once a way to say "Thank you for excellent service" is now expected as part of the employee's pay, but not delineated in your bill.
Well, since usually whenever I travel, it is on company bill, and they expect me to tip and it's their money, I'm generous
No, really -- I like to tip. I like to tell whoever is giving me service "Hey, I notice you. I noticed that you cleaned my room. Thanks - I appreciate it" in some way.
And it gives them feedback as to whether I'm saying: 1) Average job, as expected. 2) Good job 3) Excellent Job! very good!
I simply don't see what is wrong with kindness to those who are problem making less than we are.
I suppose you think the "kindness" is out of it because it IS expected instead of optional. But to me that's where the amount difference comes in.
quote:No, really -- I like to tip. I like to tell whoever is giving me service "Hey, I notice you. I noticed that you cleaned my room. Thanks - I appreciate it" in some way.
I like it, too. My husband is a very generous tipper (he's worked as a bartender and a waiter), and it's always fun to see the look on the server's face after s/he has seen the tip when we've gotten really extraordinary service. I like being able to improve someone's day like that.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I really hate tipping. And I disagree that we'd have poor service without it; people don't usually tip cashiers, office receptionists, sales clerks, etc, and yet you get acceptable service from them anyhow.
But my disdain for the practice is based on the fact that the establishment (a restaurant, usually) is expecting me to do their employees' performance evaluations for them. That's not my job. I'm not being paid to do it. I'm there to trade money for a product at an agreed-upon price. The crumminess of the wait staff is the owner's problem, not mine.
Posts: 326 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
In my younger days, I use to go to a bar that had a free drink night with a cover charge. You'd be amazed at how many people think you don't need to tip when you're not paying the bartender. If you did tip, even a little, you'd always be served quickly no matter how many people were waiting.
Posts: 221 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I think perhaps I'm a little more generous with cleaning staff at hotels and with meals in restaurants just because I'm female and I'm a mom.
I mean, traveling is such a treat to me, that it just feels SO nice to have someone else make my bed, and someone else clean my tub after a shower, and someone else bring in clean towels that I didn't have to wash, and someone else make my meals and wash the dishes.
It is just such a superb treat for someone who normally has to do it not only for themselves, but for a whole family, every day.
quote:Originally posted by Zan: In my younger days, I use to go to a bar that had a free drink night with a cover charge. You'd be amazed at how many people think you don't need to tip when you're not paying the bartender. If you did tip, even a little, you'd always be served quickly no matter how many people were waiting.
I think that is the consequence of the irrational 'percentage' basis that is used for tipping wait staff. The person is probably doing about the same amount of work regardless of how much the food/drink costs, yet a $40 meal gets twice the tip of a $20 one.
Posts: 326 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: i'm curious, how many people posting anti-tip sentiments have ever had a tip based income job?
I've worked them before. Even then, most of us agree they should just include it in the posted prices, and pay the staff more.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I don't think that's always true. Typically, if you go to a higher end restaurant, there will more waiters per customer than if you go somewhere like Red Lobster or Outback. They're waiting on less tables, so you get more better service. They might be doing the same amount of work overall, but a larger percentage is directed right at you.
It really irritates me to go to a very nice restaurant and get bad service.
Posts: 221 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Well, consider the situation within a single restaurant. Joe Blow comes in and orders the 18-ounce ribeye, while I get the tuna sandwich special. He gets a drink while I get water. The same waiter has to spend time bringing his food and mine, refilling his beverage & mine. But I'll be leaving a significantly smaller tip if we both go by percentage of the bill.
Posts: 326 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Megan: I like it, too. My husband is a very generous tipper (he's worked as a bartender and a waiter), and it's always fun to see the look on the server's face after s/he has seen the tip when we've gotten really extraordinary service. I like being able to improve someone's day like that.
I'd love to be able to do that too. But I can't just leave a little extra money once in a while when a waitress does a fabulous job, because it's expected that I'll leave 15-20% over the cost of my meal; so if I want to let her know she's great, I have to leave more. So as it is now, if someone does an adequate job - just what is expected - I have to leave them extra money; and to say thank-you to someone great, it ends up being a pretty big percentage on top of what I thought I was paying.
Oh, and this:
"Typically, if you go to a higher end restaurant, there will more waiters per customer than if you go somewhere like Red Lobster or Outback."
... is just funny. Because in my house, Red Lobster and Outback are the nicer restaurants. Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I know what you mean, Jenna. To be fair, we can only afford to do something like that when we've had a couple of really good months.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Not for long. Some restaurants would figure out that if they paid well for good service, their customers return more often. Pretty soon, they'd all be doing it to some extent or another.
So why doesn't this happen in Europe? Spending a month travelling was enough to convince me of the value of the North American tipping system.
Posts: 148 | Registered: Feb 2000
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