quote:More importantly, I think of philosophy as a skill, a way of training the mind to think.
I think this is kind of true, but I don't think philosophy as it is taught encompasses all the "thinking training" that people should have. From what I understand, philosophy students/grads tend on average to make many more of a certain type of pretty basic logical errors than people who have had a couple of semesters of statistics.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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No doubt. Not sure which "certain type" you're referring to but I can vouch that at that very same night out during a debate on relativism, the errors and fallacies were flying. I would have ripped my hair out while listening if I hadn't been laughing so hard.
However, the sad fact remains that I know I would do poorly in statistics. My brain doesn't do that kind of math. They had a brief meeting in high school and didn't get along.
My boyfriend loves to make light of "gifted disease" which run rampant in our small liberal arts college. My graduating class with the average expectant size encompasses 25 semi-specialists in 25 different studies in the sciences and humanities. And yet, we daily say and do some of the stupidest things. I've seen people conquer classes in Ancient Greek economy who still can't spell "bargain."
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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One of the classic examples is explaining why so many "Rookies of the Year" have a less than stellar second year.
Have you tried approaching statistics from a combinatorial mathematics/probability angle? I hated the way I was taught statistics (I had to take stat for Psych and Business), so I got myself I book that hit probability theory first so that I actually understand where the numbers and tables come from. Now, no worries. This might not work for you, but it's a different angle at least.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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I studied philosophy and economics as my majors, so I've gotten that question before. Often, the answer goes something like this.
"So, what are you going to do with that?" "This."
And that is usually pretty accurate, because for "this" you can substitute almost any activity I do (analyze data at work, play basketball, talk with friends, come up with new ideas in meetings, etc.) and it is probably correct to say I am using my education in it. I certainly use some of what I learned in philosophy and economics to answer the question "So what are you going to do with that?" It's a question that depends fundamentally on the things those fields study - thinking, valuing, and making choices.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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I have degrees in Psychobiology and Experimental Psychology. In casual conversations, the "Psychology" part of it is all that anyone ever seems to hear. Usually the conversation turns awkward and the person asks whether I am studying them or not. I generally try to steer the conversation around to rats and pigeons, but people don't seem to be that interested in those topics.
My advisor said the best response is to just go with the flow -- pretend you spend your days helping people to mental health and talk about how satisfying that is as a career.
I have the exact same degree from the exact same university as Dr. Joyce Brothers. I figure I know at least as much as she does about human personality.
Lately, I just analyze people's ice cream choices.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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I've never had anyone ask what I was going to do with my degree. I generally got "Ooohhh...boring. Glad it's not me." or, when I explain a little more, "Ooh, cool. I didn't know people did that."
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Person: Oh, so you're going to teach? Me: HELL no. [Really. No. Me teaching would be like this: You don't get it? WHAT DO YOU MEAN, YOU DON'T GET IT? YOU HAVE UNTIL THE TIME I COME BACK WITH BRICKS TO HIT YOU WITH TO GET IT.] Person: Oh. Me: Yup. Person: So like what are you going to do? Me, if I'm feeling cheerful with the world: Maybe write a biography of Oscar Wilde? Person: *totally blankest stare ever*
Then if I want to salvage the situation I explain how I can count quite high and say "I have no hair" in Mandarin, and how I can say a few words of Arabic and if all else fails I will perfect my grasp of these languages and become an incredibly rich interpreter, and this has never ever failed to make the other person relieved.
What is it about money? I get so tired of defending my English major. I'm doing it because I love it, and I love the professors I've had, and I love doing research. So that's why.
Jen
P.S. I am going to do research at the Bodleian next year! Posts: 910 | Registered: May 2000
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As someone who majored in something very practical (computer science) and who is making a pretty healthy amount of money for a 24 year old because I chose that major, I must admit that the very first thing that pops into my head is "what sort of job do they plan on doing with that" when I hear about a degree.
See, besides those of us who have family money (which I'd assume is very few of us) we all are going to need to work after college. Usually right after college. A large number of us have thousands of dollars of student loans when we graduate.
I myself have 13,000 dollars of student loans, and even making 60 grand a year, that is not going to be very easy to pay off.
Even with my practical degree, it took me over a year to find a decent job which I could support myself with.
It sucked, it was awful, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
So when someone says they are majoring in a "soft" field such as philosophy, I can't help but think that they may have a very hard time finding a job after college.
Now I could be way off in my judgement of their job prospects. If I don't know much about the field, I may just be ignorant of the benefits of such a degree in the job market. So perhaps I will *gasp* ask.
"What are you majoring in?"
"<non-practical major>"
"What sort of job are you looking to do after college with that degree?"
"Actually, you'd be surprised at how marketable a <non-practical major> degree is, as recruiters from <career field 1> and <career field 2> recognize its worth. You might be interested to know that it even helps people get jobs in <career field 3>."
I've actually had a few exchanges go that way. Most people actually have a very good answer to the question.
If someone were to answer:
"I have no plans for a career after college, I am studying <non-practical major> for the sake of learning."
Then I would both admire their courage and integrity, and be worried about their prospects. Not that I would worry much, because of course it is none of my business .
Making a living in this world is TOUGH. If someone spends four years of their life racking up debts and then is exactly as little qualified for any job as they were before college, then it seems like it would be that much tougher on them. If you are willing to accept that, then more power to you, and I respect that.
However, I've seen at least one case of someone on this board having a four year degree in a non-practical field, and having a very difficult time finding work above non-skilled labor. There is nothing inherently bad about this, except when the poster felt like they were entitled to a better job because they had that college degree. There's nothing magical about that piece of paper, if you learned nothing which a company is willing to pay you for, they won't want to pay you.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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Why do hatrackers have to insult one another? I'd like to suggest that we stop doing that. Just replace all sentences that call a person arrogant, an ass, etc. etc. with sentences that describe the merits and flaws of ideas. It's quite easy, it's a great benefit to the level of discourse, and it's a very good habit to learn. May I respectfully urge everyone to give that posting method a try?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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My degree, international relations, is kind of a weird hybrid between the sciences and the philosophies. It's philosophy in that a lot of the basic courses are worldview philosophy classes - i.e. how each side explains the world based on a certain set of theories and beliefs about power and other such things.
But the upper level courses really prepare you to be a professional in the field - i.e. be an intelligence analyst at the CIA, or a diplomat at the State Department, or someone who figures out which African country needs what money and how best to give it to them. Or someone who solves practical world health problems - not developing the vaccine, but figuring out the best way to get it to the millions who will need it.
For me, there was never a question about what I was going to do with my degree after college - I spent more time working while I was in school than I did taking classes, or at least it seems that way. I was going to write, and eventually I'd like to write about the subject that I studied in college.
But frankly, you can take almost any undergraduate degree and go into journalism. You used to be able to take *no* college degree and go into journalism. Not so much anymore, but still. Medical writers often have medical degrees, science writers, science degrees. I wish more science majors would go into journalism, there's been some interesting studies done recently about the lack of solid science stories in the mainstream press due to editors who find it uninteresting simply because you they don't understand it.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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