posted
Perhaps you're just at an out of the ordinary one, Frisco.
Still, though I don't think I agree with taxing tips. I mean, if you tip your mechanic $50 for good service or tip your newspaper delivery boy $50 for always making sure the paper is delivered to a side door, it just strikes me as intrusive for the government to stick their hand out.
Could someone clearly define for me the difference between "tip" and "gift"? If you give your local bartender a christmas card with $50 in it, is it a tip or gift? If you put every day's tip in a "just because" card, is it a tip or gift?
Since I don't know the technical legal definition of "gratuity" v. "gift" it all seems rather arbitrary. Can anyone help with this?
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:You know, its a funny thing to me that when the money belongs to someone who makes a great deal of money, say, the top few percent in income in the country, the government...the current administration, anyway...is all about handing out tax cuts to them, using as its excuse: Well, it's their money, they earn it, and they should get to spend it how they want to. But when it is a normal, hard-working person who works at a job that pays an average amount of money who lucks into a big tip, first thing that happens is there's the government with their hand not just out, but in the person's pocket, taking in excess of a third of it. The individual might get part of that back in their tax refund and they might not. But, is it only "their money, that they should get to spend the way they want" if they're rich to begin with? Just asking.
Not quite sure why. This certainly isn't a new policy. Do you use any excuse to spout off against this administration?
Did it ever even begin to occur to you, Dag, that I wrote "...the current administration, anyway..." because while I know that I was describing the current administration's outlook on the matter because I have heard officials of the administration, including President Bush, speak on the issue, I was not sure how other administrations had dealt with it and I did not want to drag other administrations into the equation without good cause?
quote:Could someone clearly define for me the difference between "tip" and "gift"? If you give your local bartender a christmas card with $50 in it, is it a tip or gift? If you put every day's tip in a "just because" card, is it a tip or gift?
Gifts are also taxed, you know, if they're over a certain amount.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Did it ever even begin to occur to you, Dag, that I wrote "...the current administration, anyway..." because while I know that I was describing the current administration's outlook on the matter because I have heard officials of the administration, including President Bush, speak on the issue, I was not sure how other administrations had dealt with it and I did not want to drag other administrations into the equation without good cause?
Nah, probably not.
Actually what occurred to me is "There she goes again, spouting off about things she doesn't seem to understand the underlying implications of."
Thank you for confirming my initial impression.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Okay. Fine. I haven't attended law school. But, you know what, Dag? Not agreeing with you does not equal "not understanding underlying implications". So I'd appreciate it if you'd just quit trying to act like you know everything about everything and that anyone who doesn't agree with you Just Doesn't Understand. I know that attacking the veracity, the very intelligence, of the opposition is a normal tactic used by lawyers and conservatives...I've been around enough of both to know that. But I'm not buying.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Okay. Fine. I haven't attended law school. But, you know what, Dag? Not agreeing with you does not equal "not understanding underlying implications". So I'd appreciate it if you'd just quit trying to act like you know everything about everything and that anyone who doesn't agree with you Just Doesn't Understand. I know that attacking the veracity, the very intelligence, of the opposition is a normal tactic used by lawyers and conservatives...I've been around enough of both to know that. But I'm not buying.
Bull.
That's your method of operation, not mine.
You chose to inject your views of the administration into this discussion. You took a withholding process that's at least 40 years old and somehow attempted to use it to show an inconsistency with this administration's decisions.
Except, of course, as you almost always do, you managed to misstate the administration's position almost entirely. You also compared two things - temporary withholding and permanent taking of money. And you did it to inject a comment into a discussion that wasn't about politics.
This has nothing to do with having attended law school and everything to do with trying to get people to stop pursuing their hatred of the administration into seemingly every stinking thread on the damn board. Or, since I know that's impossible, at least trying to get people to attempt to be truthful and accurate in their portrayals of the administration's position.
I don't try to act like anyone who disagrees with me "Just Doesn't Understand." I can probably drum a couple dozen people who disagree with me roundly on at least one very important topic each to testify to that.
However, I do think that YOU Don't Understand much of what you discuss, and I'm not going to not say that simply because you, once again, twist what people who disagree with you say.
I know that making the specific general is one of your favorite tactics, but It's not a very credible tactic against me.
quote:Not agreeing with you does not equal "not understanding underlying implications".
And, to be clear, there are at least 5 people on this board who have disagreed with me about tax policy that I do think understand the underlying implications of it. I'm sure there are more.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I feel bad for the lady, but there are so many cases of being taxed double (or more) for things, this is one of the least distressing aspects of the tax code in my mind.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote: What's the difference between a gratuity and a gift?
It certainly is a fine line and I don't believe there are specific definitions (I can't find any in my Income Tax textbook). I think the difference lies in whether the money is earned or unearned. If it comes about as a result of your job, it's usually considered gratuity. Just about any benefit that an employer gives to an employee is taxed. A tip for good service falls under the job category. A gift is presumably unearned. It's not quite fair, but that's how taxes are calculated.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
"If it comes about as a result of your job, it's usually considered gratuity."
For example, your employer can NEVER give you a gift; it's definitionally impossible.
And whether something IS a gift generally depends upon the apparent reason for it; it must be given more or less out of "love and affection", with no expectation of return. So it's easy for families to give qualified gifts, and pretty easy for friends as well. Strangers? Not so much. And business associates, or people who do or want to do business with each other? Very hard.
Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
So, what about donations? I'm giving money to strangers as a result of the job they're doing... so does that make it a gratuity? Or are they gifts? Or are they just donations?
If someone's house was destroyed in a fire, can I donate $10,000 for the rebuilding effort - or is that going to be taxed? Is it a gift, or a donation? If the homeowner was a contractor and was going to rebuild his own house, is that then income?
It's all very muddy, it seems.
The only constant I can find is that the government wants their cut of all money that's ever used to do anything anywhere, and it has no qualms about sticking their hand out.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
"So, what about donations? I'm giving money to strangers as a result of the job they're doing... so does that make it a gratuity? Or are they gifts? Or are they just donations?"
If it's a donation to a tax-exempt entity, which such donations usually are, I think, then it's not taxable (even though it's NOT a "gift"), and furter, it's often deductible for you, the donor.
"What if you work for your dad?"
Now that's a good question. I would think that, if he gave you something as your employer, it could never be a gift; but, since he's your dad, he could always just say to the IRS that he didn't give it as your employer, but rather as your dad, which would usually make it a gift. Not that you could get your salary to qualify as a gift this way.
Posts: 202 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
I would say this is classified as a "tip" because he put it down as "tip" on the credit card slip with his meal ticket. I mean, usually when you pay at Applebees with a card, you have to sign the ticket, and there is a place there to write "tip" -- and that's what he did.
He has been generous before -- this was just the first time for being THIS generous.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
