posted
That said, I opposed dressing Zoë entirely in pink when she was a new baby, and my wife's main argument in favor of pink (which persuaded me) was the fact that babies are so unisex-looking already, without a few hints here and there, it is really difficult for strangers to know which pronouns to use
So I don't think it's a bad thing at all to dress your kids according to custom, with bows and ruffles on the girls' clothes, and a pointed lack of it on the boys'. Entirely pink rooms and sports-themed rooms annoy me for aesthetic reasons, mostly, but also because I agree with you to an extent, that overdoing it can be presumptuous and obnoxious, if not to the kid, then to your tasteful adult friends.
Anyway, it turns out my daughter is way more attracted to remote controls, video game controllers, and noisemakers than she is to dolls at the moment, which makes me a very happy father And if she takes a sudden turn and wants fairies and princesses and ponies, I'm sure I'll get used to that, too.
Really, we're on the same page in a lot of ways. But the way you present you point seems a little ... I don't know, like you're taking it too far. Getting angry about something harmless and fun for some parents, if it's a little tasteless. When the kids are old enough to have opinions, they let you know, and you try to adapt. Whatever you do at the outset will be "wrong" in some way or another. I don't think that the particular pet peeve you're citing here is any more harmful than pretty much everything else new parents do.
Maybe I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that no matter how I raise my child, it will contribute to some sort of psychological problem that she'll blame me for when she's twenty Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote: It's the complete inundation of the child with pink or blue that is the tell-tale mark of a parent with strong specific ideas about girls and boys.
I have a 5 year old daughter that is very adamant that her favorite color is pink. It was never forced on her, but given the choice of colors for any object, she will pick pink (case in point, her soccer bag, shin guards, ball). She's just very girly, and we encourage her to be who she is.
Posts: 1480 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Really, we're on the same page in a lot of ways. But the way you present you point seems a little ... I don't know, like you're taking it too far. Getting angry about something harmless and fun for some parents, if it's a little tasteless.
Well, it's very, very likely that the hatrack parents are far less pinkish and blueish than some. But some children's lives are really completely themed and I can't help feeling that it doesn't encourage openness and wide-ranging interest.
Sometimes it can really cut me to the core when children say 'That's just for girls/boys!' when it's something that is otherwise completely sexless (like Lego, a toy that can equally be used to build battleships as it can to play house).
Perhaps I present myself as angier than I am. Words like "infuriate" are too strong. It is that- a pet peeve. I'm not exactly raging.
quote:I have a 5 year old daughter that is very adamant that her favorite color is pink. It was never forced on her, but given the choice of colors for any object, she will pick pink (case in point, her soccer bag, shin guards, ball). She's just very girly, and we encourage her to be who she is.
There is a difference between a child who likes pink (I was one) and when I child is completely inundated with 'it' at aged three.
This pinkness is not only a colour. As I finally learnt over time pink is just another colour that for some reason has become attached to girlyness because small girls love pink or purple (whereas boys do not have such a colour preference: favourite colours include Blue, Red, or Orange- odd, but true, I always wondered what causes this.) I'm using the colour pink as an metaphor for a much larger lifestyle.
(Note: Green and Yellow are much forgotten colours among children, at least from a cursory observation point of view.)
quote:Anyway, it turns out my daughter is way more attracted to remote controls, video game controllers, and noisemakers than she is to dolls at the moment, which makes me a very happy father [Smile] And if she takes a sudden turn and wants fairies and princesses and ponies, I'm sure I'll get used to that, too.
There is no reason why shouldn't have both. That is what I am trying to encourage by arguing against the perception of a strong pink/blue division.
This is a small minority of the world that inundates their child to the point of me becoming worried.
Also, buying less pink-or-blue themed stuff is cheaper. And it can be reused for other children. And it's less repulsive to look at. And less constantly commercial.
quote:Maybe I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that no matter how I raise my child, it will contribute to some sort of psychological problem that she'll blame me for when she's twenty
I think that bringing up a child "perfectly" is impossible. No one is perfect- neither you, nor the child. The best you can do is bring a child "very well", which I have no doubt you will do .
Anyway, my post has totally derailed the thread. I doubt that many (if any) Hatrack parents would be of the type to get rid of embryos because they're not the "right" sex, so I don't think my full investment in this problem really applies here. I've no doubt that a bunch of sci fi loving parents can bring up well adjusted children with minds that are open to things other than a narrow gender-oriented stream!
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Sometimes it can really cut me to the core when children say 'That's just for girls/boys!' when it's something that is otherwise completely sexless (like Lego, a toy that can equally be used to build battleships as it can to play house).
You know what? Now matter how you raise them, once they go to public school, they'll start saying that stuff anyway.
Well, maybe not for a Lego, but I've been pretty perplexed by the bizarre ideas that our kids have been picking up from (I assume) other kids.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:You know what? Now matter how you raise them, once they go to public school, they'll start saying that stuff anyway
First of all, I don't think that's true.
Secondly, just because your child will be exposed to silly ideas at school doesn't mean that you shouldn't bring them up with not only an understanding of what people say at school is not necessarily right but also empirical evidence that it's not. If they know like to play with <insert toy here> they will not be so willing to abandon their own personality completely to the will of someone else.
quote:Well, maybe not for a Lego, but I've been pretty perplexed by the bizarre ideas that our kids have been picking up from (I assume) other kids.
But that doesn't stop you from bringing your child up with what you percieve to be the "right" ideas, correct?
All I'm saying is that gender should not be jammed into a child's head with a stick! It doesn't need to be! In fact, I think it's healthier when there's less pressure.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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But I do agree that the fact that they'll learn weird stuff at school is no reason to not teach them something better.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
When I was pretty new here on HR, I shared how, despite it not being encouraged, our oldest boy had grown into a stereotypical boy and our girl into a stereotypical girl. People dismissed my statments by implying or outright saying that we were effectively brainwashing our kids, either without being honest about it or without realizing it.
It's been interesting to see our third child, a girl, grow up so very different. She loves heavy machinery. She loves the Tonka Truck we bought her. I wouldn't be surprised if she studies engineering like her Pa.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
People have always had the option of killing newborn babies that didn't measure up. I'm not exactly sure when this became less often the case, but I think the sky-is-falling anxiety about the whole human race or our culture is unfounded. I don't support infantice or abortion, of course. I'm just saying this is nothing new. And it's a tiny percentage of the populace. Most people will keep spinning the wheel the old fashion way.
What was the deal in Gattaca with Uma Thurman having a bad heart? Was that because her gene modifications had an unintended effect?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:When I was pretty new here on HR, I shared how, despite it not being encouraged, our oldest boy had grown into a stereotypical boy and our girl into a stereotypical girl. People dismissed my statments by implying or outright saying that we were effectively brainwashing our kids, either without being honest about it or without realizing it.
This is not a problem. It is the huge weight of gender-based encouragement (which you state you did not do) that is the problem.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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