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"PERCY JACKSON" said the Gods, "YOUR ADHD AND DYSLEXIA ARE ACTUALLY SUPER COOL AND YOU SHOULD FEEL TOTALLY AWESOME ABOUT THEM BECAUSE IT MEANS YOU ARE GODBORN."
"Wow, really?"
"NO, YEAH, HAHA, NO, WE CAN'T SAY THAT WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, BUT YOU GOTTA GO ALONG WITH IT BECAUSE IT'S OUR STRAIGHTFORWARD WAY TO PANDER TO TARGET READERS."
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I'm not sure the Percy Jackson series is any more notorious for pandering to a young audience than any other young adult series which has risen to some variety of prominence. Besides, ADHD and dyslexia are very serious learning disorders which your comment seems to paint as being somehow a negative thing and the child's fault. There's no reason young students with learning dysfunctions shouldn't be able to find a character with which they can identify.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I haven't read the books, but there's a difference between creating a character who has some disability or other, and making those disabilities actually a Super Cool Sign Of Awesome. Miles Vorkosigan is physically different, a major handicap in his culture, and overcomes the resulting difficulties by sheer drive and ability; but it is never suggested that it is actually his difference that makes him awesome, or that he would be boringly ordinary if his bones were normal.
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The book ascribes ADHD and dyslexia as a result of a degree of god-like abilities. But they aren't super-powers or anything like that, so it doesn't suggest that having the disabilities is or isn't what makes the character "heroic."
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quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: Besides, ADHD and dyslexia are very serious learning disorders which your comment seems to paint as being somehow a negative thing and the child's fault.
Or rather, low hanging fruit in satire of a young adult novel. Besides, children with ADHD and dyslexia are bad and should feel bad, because now life lets them know that they'll never be harry potter, they'll just be the wannabe harry potter also-rans.
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I realize you're being sarcastic, but I really don't know how to respond to something like that. I may not personally be a huge fan of Percy Jackson, but I don't think a kid in that situation is going to discriminate between what character they can relate to and whether or not that character is from a high-tier young adult series or a lower one. No harm, no foul. If it helps someone else, then it's not my position to discredit it more than to just say it isn't my cup of tea.
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1. Yes, it's worth giving the first book a try. 2. My sentimental attachment to anything Ender makes that impossible to answer.
I enjoyed the Hunger Games trilogy. All three. I even really liked the end of the third.
For the sake of having a valid opinion about Twilight, I read all four books. Never have I wished so desperately to have not read something. The first was idiotic, but vaguely palatable. The other three were awful awful awful. The last one made my skin crawl and was a genuine struggle to finish.
I had no such reaction to the Hunger Games books. They aren't great literature. They aren't very innovative, but they are entertaining and gripping at times. The flattest character in the Hunger Games is Mariana Trench deep in comparison to the Twilight characters.
Read Hunger Games for something quick, entertaining, and hard to put down. The present tense is a personal thing. After a couple of pages I was used to it and it didn't bother me. I recommend the first book to everyone since it's so easy to read, accessible, and fast-paced. Evidently, opinion shifts a lot about the second and third. Read the first one and only keep going if you care to stay in that world a little longer.
***spoiler that isn't really a spoiler*** The plot boils down to an amalgamation of the Minotaur myth, Ender's Game, The Truman Show, and the gladiator games--All of which I find interesting and worthy of re-visiting in different forms. *********
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quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: I think it depends on age group too.
I think this is more of an issue than geography. A fair number of adults I know have read and enjoyed one or more of the Hunger Games books. I cannot think of a single person over the age of 16 (probably even 14) that I know has read and enjoyed the Percy Jackson books.
Define enjoyed.
I'm not going to recommend them to anyone, but I read four out of five and didn't feel like my time was stolen from me. I probably won't read them again, but I was interested to see how it ended. I feel that way about most young adult lit. I Am Number Four is another one that I read that I probably wouldn't read again, but I'm mildly curious as to where it's going, and they only take like two, maybe three hours to read the whole book, so it's an okay way to spend an afternoon if I don't have time to dig into a larger more complicated book.
Plus it's nice to know that you don't have to be any better than that to get published. I could write something of that quality in a long weekend.
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I have said it before and I'll say it again: many people express the desire or even compulsion to have to finish a book even when it's become a total chore and they're not enjoying it and I just completely don't understand it. It's like being in the habit of watching tv but being unable to change channels when the show you're on isn't holding your attention, because you 'might as well get through it,' or something. Analogies fail me. If I'm not enjoying a book it's got like ten pages to get my attention back, or it gets heaped and I go find another book or maybe perhaps just get eaten by the internet forever oh god
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I have said it before and I'll say it again: many people express the desire or even compulsion to have to finish a book even when it's become a total chore and they're not enjoying it and I just completely don't understand it. It's like being in the habit of watching tv but being unable to change channels when the show you're on isn't holding your attention, because you 'might as well get through it,' or something. Analogies fail me. If I'm not enjoying a book it's got like ten pages to get my attention back, or it gets heaped and I go find another book or maybe perhaps just get eaten by the internet forever oh god
I largely agree, except for the ten pages thing. If there are multiple plot threads in a book, and some of them are extremely interesting while some seem boring, I'll slog through a good while, savoring the good ones and tolerating the boring ones in the hopes that they pay off down the road.
This has happened most times I've read a Brandon Sanderson book, where at least one character viewpoint tends not to interest me until I've gotten through a few of their chapters.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Please rant about twilight. Rant about its ugly psychosexual underbelly. My assassination protocols glow with a warmth that could even be considered joy when I read someone dissect the monstrosity that is Twilight's message to young girls about themselves and their sexuality.
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Please rant about twilight. Rant about its ugly psychosexual underbelly. My assassination protocols glow with a warmth that could even be considered joy when I read someone dissect the monstrosity that is Twilight's message to young girls about themselves and their sexuality.
Thanks, HK-47.
You are now reading my post in hk-47's voice
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Please rant about twilight. Rant about its ugly psychosexual underbelly. My assassination protocols glow with a warmth that could even be considered joy when I read someone dissect the monstrosity that is Twilight's message to young girls about themselves and their sexuality.
posted
I should have realized that my statement about the Jackson books would be seen as a challenge. It wasn't meant that way, and I stand by the actual intent of that post: The AVERAGE age of the Percy Jackson reader is considerably lower than that of the AVERAGE Hunger Games reader.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: I should have realized that my statement about the Jackson books would be seen as a challenge. It wasn't meant that way, and I stand by the actual intent of that post: The AVERAGE age of the Percy Jackson reader is considerably lower than that of the AVERAGE Hunger Games reader.
The Hunger Games is one of those YA books that are every bit as relevant to adults as if it were an "adult" novel. It's smart enough, and the writing isn't dumbed down. I didn't feel like I was reading a kid's book. I think the author does a little better of a job at this than the Harry Potter books did.
The Percy Jackson books, on the other hand, exhibit a writing style that is very much aimed at younger kids. It tries to be "cool", and both the language and some of the plotting can be rather annoying for adult readers. That said, both my wife and I enjoyed them moderately well. I, for one, liked them better than the Harry Potter series. To be fair, however, I was always rather tepid to Rowling's mess of a series.
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quote:I have said it before and I'll say it again: many people express the desire or even compulsion to have to finish a book even when it's become a total chore and they're not enjoying it and I just completely don't understand it.
I've done this in the past, especially when I was trying to read outside my comfort zone. I read an entire Danielle Steele book from front to back and somehow managed to survive it. But I told myself "never again," which is why I won't touch the Twilight books with a ten foot pole.
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Heinlein's "The Number of Beast" was the first book I was like, "Eff it! I don't want to continue this book." and I set it aside and it has sat on my book shelf ever since.
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To be clear, this book wasn't the first I -wanted- to put down unfinished, it was the first I -did- put down unfinished.
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quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: Heinlein's "The Number of Beast" was the first book I was like, "Eff it! I don't want to continue this book." and I set it aside and it has sat on my book shelf ever since.
That sounds familiar but I can't remember the plot. I think the last book I put down after giving it a real shot was a Halo book.
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quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: Heinlein's "The Number of Beast" was the first book I was like, "Eff it! I don't want to continue this book." and I set it aside and it has sat on my book shelf ever since.
That sounds familiar but I can't remember the plot. I think the last book I put down after giving it a real shot was a Halo book.
The real mystery is why you gave it a shot.
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My Spring Break is around the same time. Maybe Lyr and I should collaborate on the novel via e-mail.
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I tend to finish books that I start. Often, they don't hit their stride until late into the novel.
The first Dune book, for example, kind of sucks until about 2/3 of the way in. Also, Arthur C. Clark is like this.
Some books are rather boring to read, and the enjoyment really doesn't occur until you've finished it. You may not have enjoyed it, but you're glad to have read it. Some Hemingway and Dickens is like this for me.
In either case, you're losing a lot by putting the book down. In the end, if you didn't like it you know to avoid that author in the future.
My wife, on the other hand, will stop reading after two or three pages. She just stopped reading Slaughterhouse-Five because she "didn't like the way (Vonnegut) writes". <Facepalm>
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I've been over half of the way through the book Wicked without having made any progress for something like five years. I intend to finish it eventually, but I just seem to have literary ADHD.
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Yeah, if a book is not enjoyable to read, but afterwards you're "glad you read it," I suspect that's because you feel like you've accomplished something by reading it even though you haven't. Because the literary community decreed that the book was "good" and now you can say you read it and discuss it with people.
Let's test this: How often do you experience this with a book that is not a "classic?"
Your wife has the right idea. You're wrong to facepalm her. (Man, put in that context it sounds like some sort of horrible martial arts attack, but I think you know what I meant)
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quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: I've been over half of the way through the book Wicked without having made any progress for something like five years. I intend to finish it eventually, but I just seem to have literary ADHD.
I think it was you who mentioned this before and I echoed it, but absolutely. I used to always finish books I started, but lately there are just so many I'll stop midway and give up on.
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I'm too busy to commit to a book I'm not actually enjoying. I usually end up reading them eventually. But if I'm going to read something for pleasure instead of work or school, then I want it to be pleasurable to me.
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I try to give books fifty to one hundred pages--which I will vary based on overall length, as well as the intention of the book. Genre fiction--which is, after all, about telling a darn story--gets a bit less leeway. For literary fiction, I better be enjoying the characterization and language, since I don't expect an actual, you know, story. So--if your wife isn't enjoying Vonnegut's storytelling after a couple of pages, why on earth should she suffer through it?
If there's some sort of purpose for reading beyond my personal experience & edification--like a book club meeting, or a class discussion--then I'll press on.
But seriously. Life is short and my reading time is limited. I want to be getting a tremendous amount of entertainment and/ or pleasure out of the reading I have time for.
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And if only my last name was actually Rogers!
Edit:
I'd say I'd be willing to give collaborating on a young adult novel over break an actual chance if I thought I'd have the time. It would be really fun to do though.
Edit Again: Hell. If we could get a time extension for the project considering it's status as a collaboration instead, then I'd be more than willing to give it a go just for the sake of having done it.
quote:Originally posted by Jake: I liked The Amber Spyglass better than The Subtle Knife, but that isn't saying a whole lot. Neither book was worth much in comparison to the first, I thought.
I thought The Subtle Knife was just as good as The Golden Compass. There was plenty of Spyglass I enjoyed just fine as well. It's about 50% in that the whole thing just turned sour so fast.
The Subtle Knife was my favorite of the books, Compass being a very close second.
Spyglass was very entertaining in the good parts but down right boring in other parts, I felt i was supposed to like it alot more than I did.
Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008
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I remember the Artemis Fowl books being very popular among middle school and high school age students (despite their incredible simplicity) when I was still in school, and I even attended a book signing event with my Dad (who teaches elementary school) and found Eoin Colfer to be a genial and all-around friendly guy.
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quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: And if only my last name was actually Rogers!
Edit:
I'd say I'd be willing to give collaborating on a young adult novel over break an actual chance if I thought I'd have the time. It would be really fun to do though.
Edit Again: Hell. If we could get a time extension for the project considering it's status as a collaboration instead, then I'd be more than willing to give it a go just for the sake of having done it.
Maybe they'd allow us to use the two months before break as a pre-planning period where we spitball ideas and work out the plot, and then the actual writing has to take place in a four day period (or perhaps we can split those four days up over a length of time to adjust for schedules).
I've already got a couple of ideas.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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It al; comes down to targeted audience. Ender's Game, along with the Ender Quartet and the Shadow Series, are targeted, in my opinion, at intelligent young teens and older readers. On the other hand, the Percy Jackson series is targeted at mainly "layman" children. Do not get me wrong. I thoroughly enjoyed Percy Jackson and The Olympians, and Rick Riordan is a skilled storyteller. But I can see how the simplistic writing style and in-your-face pre-teen sexual themes could be quite irksome to the advanced reader.
That said, based on the neat little black and white extremes that I just fabricated, I believe The Hunger Games fall somewhere in the middle. The audience targeted is still fairly young, but there are the more subtle themes present that keep us "hatrackers" coming back to OSC for more of his stories. Do I believe that in the hands of a writer of the caliber of OSC the series could be improved? Of course. But The Hunger Games is a solid story and a compelling tale of young love, (as cheesy as that might sound) and it is much as I could expect from the writer of the Overland Chronicles.
All in all, solid piece of literature, and worth checking out.
quote:Originally posted by ZachC: Ender's Game, along with the Ender Quartet and the Shadow Series, are targeted, in my opinion, at intelligent young teens and older readers.
The initial intended audience (to the degree that there was one) of EG was adults. The re-branding as a YA book came about 10 years after the book was first published, and (as I understand it) was in part due to the number of high schools that had added it to their curriculum.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Yeah, if a book is not enjoyable to read, but afterwards you're "glad you read it," I suspect that's because you feel like you've accomplished something by reading it even though you haven't.
That's your problem. You assume that I haven't accomplished anything. In some instances I've gained a better understanding of history, as in the book 1776. In some instances it is a philosophical learning experience (Ovid, Divine Comedy, etc). In some instances the book gives insight into the human condition (David Copperfield, Shakespeare).
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Your wife has the right idea. You're wrong to facepalm her. (Man, put in that context it sounds like some sort of horrible martial arts attack, but I think you know what I meant)
No, my wife has taken it to the extreme. She'll only read super-pop books because she'll often put down books after only a few paragraphs or pages. She's become so conditioned, she is utterly incapable of reading anything in a different style or with any level of depth. That's the danger of being too critical.
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quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: Heinlein's "The Number of Beast" was the first book I was like, "Eff it! I don't want to continue this book." and I set it aside and it has sat on my book shelf ever since.
That sounds familiar but I can't remember the plot. I think the last book I put down after giving it a real shot was a Halo book.
The real mystery is why you gave it a shot.
Lol, yes, that's still a mystery to me, too.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Maybe they'd allow us to use the two months before break as a pre-planning period where we spitball ideas and work out the plot, and then the actual writing has to take place in a four day period (or perhaps we can split those four days up over a length of time to adjust for schedules).
Ha! I'll ask the kids. I'm sure it'll be fine. Four days is still four days.
They are, by the way, really excited about this.
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Oh! And there is a true natural deadline here...it has to be complete in time for them to read and and give feedback before the end of the school year.
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When does the school year end and how long do they need to read it? School year probably ends in like June. How long does it take kids to read YA-sized book? Couple weeks?
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