A close second is from a deleted scene in Two Towers, where Aragorn stares suspiciously at the "soup" Eowyn made him.
I can picture the thought bubbles percolating over Aragorn's head: "I've traveled countless dangerous roads, and slayed numerous deadly foes... and yet, my life will end, not in battle, but in the digestion of this freaking soup this woman gave me."
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have to agree that I didn't like Frodo and the other hobbits being cast in the perpetual light of victimiztion and inability to be their own movers and shakers (despite Galadriel's "little person" speech) but I really DID like Arwen's made up statement:
"If you want him, come and claim him."
Feminists unite!
That would have been one heck of a fight if you ask me!
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
I remember someone on Hatrack wrote a wonderful posting about how Aragorn's love for Arwen gave him the strength to resist the Ring, and how PJ's treatment of Arwen is a faithful representation of that theme, and not a distortion of Arwen's importance.
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
That would have to be pretty convincing to convince me.
That being said, I don't see how he could have made it accurate to Tolkien and not cheese off modern audiences. After all, Arwen didn't really do anything except be beautiful and sew.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, I'm a little upset that her sewing didn't make it to the movie. The breaking of Aragorn's standard on the pirate ships is my favorite part of the book. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't watch enough movies to know whom to cast as Galadriel and Elrond that would have been better. They both LOOKED right (hair, makeup, costumes, features) but I didn't think either of them acted right. Maybe there isn't anyone. I don't know.
I absolutely loved Boromir too. He was a way better character in the movie than the book. I also loved Eowyn and Eomer both. Excellent jobs from both of them.
Balrogs of course have wings, but they are made of SHADOW. Their wings are made of a shadowy substance and not flesh. I can't believe there's any controversy about that at all. Tolkien clearly states it. The Balrog in the movie looked GREAT. Couldn't have been better.
All visuals were great. Sets, landscapes, models. The movie looked perfect. I would not have believed anyone could come so close to my own internal vision of what everything and everyone in Middle Earth should look like. None of the Tolkien illustrators except Tolkien himself have ever managed. I was mad impressed by that.
I am unhappy overall with the storytelling. I don't like the score. Both were too sappy and sentimental, too overdramatized. Still I did enjoy the movies if only for the visuals. And I'm delighted that they rekindled my Tolkien mania which had faded. I'm also glad that JRRT won so many new fans with these movies, and that they are reprinting all his books. Now if only that one the pictures of JRRT would be reprinted I'd be completely content.
[ August 05, 2004, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think balrogs were shadow and flame period - wings notwithstanding.
Ponders Beren's favorite scene of the standard Arwen sewed being raised and idly wonders if sewing skills are one of the things that still interest guys these days . . .
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: Balrogs of course have wings, but they are made of SHADOW. Their wings are made of a shadowy substance and not flesh. I can't believe there's any controversy about that at all. Tolkien clearly states it.
Not all that clearly....and just because they could be made of shadow and flame doesn't mean that he couldn't fly with them.....the whole balrog is flame and shadow, but it is a physical being as well. Magic, by definition, doesn't have to follow the laws of physics....
That being said, I LOVED the Balrog.....I got goosebumps seeing it....and hearing Gandalf barring his way. By far the best part of the first movie....and maybe the second too...
Even better than I had pictured it....and the footage of the Balrog and Gonadal battling as they fell was amazing.
posted
Shan baby, if you ever get your hands on some gems and mithril, don't bother sewing me a standard. Let's ebay that stuff and take a vacation. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
He let go because, subconsciously, he knew he had to defeat the balrog and go thru the transformation to be fully able to carry out the rest of his mission. That's my take on it anyway. I was offended and puzzled at Gimli being made into a buffoon in the second movie, but at least part of that I can rationalise as part of the friendship between Legolas and him, the banter and putdowns that go on between good friends.
Posts: 867 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: With a terrible cry the Balrog fell forward, and its shadow plunged down and vanished. But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizard's knees, dragging him to the brink. He staggered, and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss . 'Fly, you fools!' he cried, and was gone.
(Page 430, LOTR, 1965 - the "authorized" edition, no less . . .
Ahhh - the movie was all I hoped for in those scenes . . . *shivers with delight*
posted
That's true (after searching the book)...the whip IS attached!
Bad balrog. Could have killed the wizard but...noooo... tsc, tsc...it's so difficult to find good help, nowadays.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
However, in the movie, the whip does fall away and Gandalf isn't sliding or scrabbling at the bridge - he's clinging to the rock. Then, he just let go.
quote: To his amazement he found that he was no longer looking at Bilbo; a shadow seemed to have fallen between them, and and through it he found himself eying a little wrinkled creature with a hungry face and bony groping hands. He felt a desire to strike him.
I agree that in the book Bilbo was stronger, but how else would PJ be able to emphasized the power that the Ring still had over Bilbo. I always got the feeling that Bilbo was on the verge of taking the Ring there, but that Frodo stopped him. The movie just exaggerated it ...and not really that much. Bilbo still stopped, and realized the power of the Ring.......
Kwea, I think part of our difference here is our interpretation of the very passage you quoted. I have always thought that passage was intended to be figurative. By the time Frodo meets up with Bilbo in Rivendell, eleven years have passed since they last saw each other. This puts Bilbo at 122 years old. Without the Ring, Bilbo has aged. I always saw the passage as meaning that the personality that Frodo knew and loved was swallowed by the hunger for the Ring, leaving only the wrinkled, bony, old body in its place. This is in sharp contrast to actually having Bilbo briefly turn into a Gollum-looking monster. I personally like my interpretation better than the literal one, but that's most likely because it's my interpretation.
Jackson had a lot of options available to him. Right off the bat, he's got the whole bag of tricks normally available to a director, most notably camera angle. In fact, he uses the camera quite effectively to show the Ring's hold over Frodo--using close-ups of the Ring in his hand, etc. On top of that, though, he has the huge acting talent of Ian Holm. Holm is capable of a lot as an actor, and I think it would not be beyond him at all to portray the kind of consuming hunger that I described in the previous paragraph, the sort of hunger that displaces the personality we have already sort of gotten to know by that point of the film.
That aside, though, my major gripe isn't even really that he uses special effects to make Bilbo look scary. It's the fact that Bilbo actually loses control and grabs for the Ring. He doesn't do that in the book. In the book, he masters himself before that point and then asks Frodo to put it away. In the movie, he grabs for it, misses, and then regains control of himself. He never asks Frodo to put it away, though, despite the fact that he is obviously distraught. It makes for a very different scene, in my opinion.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the 'shadow' between them was figurative, too. The Ring is like that. I also was really irritated at the emasculation of hobbits at basically every single turn from the book where they show strength and determination, to the film where it's often reversed or at least diluted.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted August 05, 2004 10:26 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kwea-
Wasn't it "You Shall Not Pass" I'm an LOTR nazi
Well, then perhaps you should check the actual story then, before asking....
quote: "You cannot pass," he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a servent of the Secret Fire, weilder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."
pg 344 of FOTR, in the collectors edition leather bound edition.
quote: "You cannot pass!" he said. With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed.
pg 345, same edition.
Also, in the book Aragorn and Boromir were about to leap to Gandalf aid, and they would have died. It says that that is where Gandalf broke his staff and colapsed the bridge. When he did so the whip entangled him, dragging him to his knees and right to the brink....then he
quote:grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss."
I think he fell in order to carry the fight to areas that the others would not be able to go, thus insuring their saftey as best he could. He even says that they cannot fight the Balrog as it is beyond them.
quote:This is a foe beyond any of you. I must hold the narrow way.
posted
My mistake Kwea. It has been a long time since I read the books. i'n the movie thoguh, wasn't it "shall not"? Or am i making things up?
Posts: 1401 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I checked the movie, and the first time he said "you cannot pass"; unfortunatly, PJ in hiw not-so-infanite wisdom changed it to "You shall not pass!" for the second and final time.
I loved that scene in the movie because it was almost perfect to what I had imagined when reading it over and over...in some ways even better.
He even had the Balrog have wings, but made them out of a shadowy substance, almost exactaly how it is written.
*rant on* Grrr.. for the EE they will have the Mouth of Sauron. Yay! BUT... they will have Aragorn kill him. Grrrrr... I just need to say that the killing of the Mouth of Sauron for the EE is totally disappointing and insulting. Not only does it go against the book, but it goes against Aragorn's character. You do NOT kill ambassadors! Only barbarians, murders, traitors and tyrants kill ambassadors. Talk about teaching the wrong thing and betraying the spirit of the book... *rant off*
ahh.. much better. Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
Hi Shan!![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
