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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » I'm Hooked (An Appreciation of Two Great Things) (Page 4)

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Author Topic: I'm Hooked (An Appreciation of Two Great Things)
Noemon
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Same here. I'll have to relisten to them.
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twinky
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Teshi can tell us when she's done. [Wink]
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Mr_Megalomaniac
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SPOILERS (Some of it is from the commentaries, so even if you've seen the series you may not have heard this)

In the commentaries Joss says that the Blue Sun members are part of a psychic program, but I agree with who said that River distorts things. I think she tends to see the very darkest parts of human beings at times.

Also, I think Joss also said that at one of the parts, "This is when you begin to notice that Book is not a shepard." Joss might be having fun with the audience, and Book might really be a shepard, but who knows.

I don't think Book ever said he was an Alliance leader in the war or anything, but my brother thinks that he might have been the general at the battle of Serenity or somethign like that.

Also, does anyone remember that thing on the first episode that Inara had? All the time I thought it was a suicide needle, and Joss says, "Everyone thought it was so she could kill her self, but accually it's not. I'm not going to tell you what it is though. Hahhaha!" I can't remember if he laughed or not, but I know he atleast did on the inside.

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Teshi
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13. "Heart of Gold"

DARN IT! or, should I say, GORRAM IT! [Wink] Will Inara and Mal never figure themselves out. It is so frustrating! *cry of anguish*

I don't know what to say about this one, really. So many things were left unsaid. It was a very frustrating episode, all in all. It's another one which should and could have been longer. So many pieces of the plot were left up to me to imagine, so many great moments just didn't fit in the story. It was solved too quickly. This, with a few additions and changes, could have easily been a movie plot. GORRAM IT! [Wink]

I was exceedingly enthralled in this one. I laughed out loud at the "I'm just waiting to see if I fall over" line (just to let you know this is a big thing; I'm more of a silent laugher). I gasped in horror when people (deliberately vague) were killed. I giggled, and I was solemn. At the end, I was gripping my chair and at the very very end I was gesturing silently at my screen in anguished frustration: "Noooooooooooooo..."

Most involving [Big Grin] , most touching [Frown] , most frustrating [Wall Bash] . Gah. But pure brilliance, of course [Smile] .

Only one more to go until I can read all the spoilers which I have actually managed to avoid by performing complex gymnastics with my eyes, my mouse and my scrollbar. O.o

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twinky
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When Inara... well, when you see her after the "puritanical about sex" scene... you know? It's heartbreaking.
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Teshi
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YES. [Cry]

Because this was such a roller coaster of emotions, I'm a little lacking in things to say. But that scene... oh my goodness. It was... heartbreaking (there really isn't any other word).

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katharina
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Yes, it is heartbreaking...

...I can't really blame Mal, though. She pushed him away a lot, emphasizing that theirs was just a business relationship. I know it served the story to have the unresolved sexual tension, but in real life, if someone pushes you away and tells you that there is nothing personal between, still being faithful to the idea of that person is kind of pathetic. Having rejected someone who liked me very much and then been devestated when he got over it, I understand the sadness. Still, what did she expect him to do?

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Teshi
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That's why it's so frustrating! It's a vicious circle! It's like in Much Ado About Nothing between Beatrice and Benedict. They need someone (and that someone is no longer around) to tell them what the truth is!
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blacwolve
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Spoilers
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In the Objects in Space commentary Joss says that Jubal is so empathatic as to be practically telepathic. So I think we can trust What Jubal says about Book. Or about anyone else for that matter.

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TMedina
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Spoilers
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The priest? The same priest with an ID that makes Alliance commanders snap to attention? The same priest who can fire a weapon single-handedly with enough accuracy to shoot someone in the knee/leg?

Oh yeah, padre has a few skeletons in the closet - none of them his.

-Trevor

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twinky
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For someone who didn't like Firefly, you sure know an awful lot about it. [Wink]
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Noemon
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That is a heart wrenching scene, isn't it. I just want to reach into the screen and *fix* things in this episode, more than in any other.

One thing that I think is really cool about Firefly is that it's realistic enough in it's character and relationship development that it isn't at all certain that Inara and Mal ever would have ended up together had the show gone on, not for the typical "keeping up sexual tension" reasons, but because one or both of them would have moved on. Wish we'd gotten the chance to find out.

My two favorite lines in this episode are the one Teshi mentioned and River's "Who do you think is in there?" Great stuff.

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TMedina
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My opinion is an informed one. [Razz]

And there was nothing else in an opposing time slot for me to watch. [Taunt]

-Trevor

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Teshi
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(ahem)

You may now cease your spoiler-notification, I have officially finished the series. Let us all have a moment of silence for the passing of Firefly, may she live on in our hearts and minds.

14. "Objects in Space"

quote:
You know, Teshi is going to be incredibly disappointed when these aren't as interesting as she'd been imagining them to be while she was avoiding them.

Teshi was not disappointed. Even what I imagined could not start on what this last episode ended up being. This was tv at the potential it should reach. This was great writing and great characters and great ifs and great storytelling and great ideas. All in all, it's like a sapling cut off half way up the trunk by vandals, what happened to Firefly.

After I watched this episode, I knew from the lines and the way it was filmed that there was more here than just plot, and I also wanted to hear the line that Book says when River reads his mind, I'll come to that later. So I started it again, and immediately noticed the planet at the start is the same as the bouncey ball from the end. *click*. After hearing Book's line and thinking "what the heck?" a couple of times I stopped the replay and went back to listen to the commentary, hoping Joss Whedon would shed some light on the subject.

I was very interested in what he had to say, and I was pleased how much of it was communicated clearly to me as a passive but thinking viewer. I got the 'walls opening' line immediately, from the sheer clarity of the writing, direction etc. I was also happy, and somewhat amused, to hear that JW disliked guns and violence and yet those things are just so much of this show. It's clear he knows that it sells, it makes the story exciting, and so he puts it in, but it's also nice to know that he wants to go beyond that. I think that's part of what makes Firefly so great.

Some of the shots in this episode were truly lovely. The one with River balanced on the railings, listening, took my breath away.

On a more mundane level, I thought Early was a great villian. I don't want to say too much but since you've turned this thread into a spoiler mine-field I feel like what I'm saying is totally inconsequential, so. Early's creeping yet laid back evil and violence was horrifying. Made my skin crawl, especially the scene with Kaylee. Holy crumpets. Not a fun situation.

And yet this episode for all its deepness, for all the horrible creepyness of Early, managed to have its moments of glee. Jayne's obliviousness, the midget exchange, the conversation between River and Mal. They were perfect.

And I loved that great scene when River floats towards Mal. Like JW said, she looks like a cheerful little kid in an oversized snowsuit. Fabulous.

I have no idea how to express how much I love this series, this storyline, this idea and these characters and how much disbelief I feel at the fact that it never even had a chance. There is no justice, is all I can say.

You can hear in JW's voice, in the actors, how they share the same sentiment. It's almost like the "what went wrong" idea. "The perfect show, and yet we failed, how the heck did that happen?"

I am, I think you can say, safely converted. You can have your DVD back when you want it, twinky. I'm going to go and find somewhere to buy my own [Smile] .

~~~~~

Anyway, the speculation doesn't end here, certainly. I still have Book's character to investigate. Clearly, he has a (much) darker history, and possibly and much darker side. That cryptic comment read by River, which at this rate, we'll never know what it meant, kind of alerts us to this. I think it's a real sentiment, although I'm not sure if it was directed at River, or if River plucked it from a memory.

I don't have a clue what to make of it, though. Sounds like a cruel man, but I still legitimately believe that he is, at face value, a Shepherd, despite Early's comment that he's not. I'm sticking to this idea because, by the fourteenth episode, we've only seen him use whatever talents he has in the effort to further his Shepherdness. The act has been too long to pull the rug out completely from under us.

My theory now is that I don't think he's been a Shepherd for as long as he leads us to believe. He's obviously a man of action, and has been, or still conceals, a heartless general, cop or any number of other people that he could have been.

I have a further feel. If he was an undercover agent in a former life, who was then forced to take the guise of a Shepherd, who then decided to actually take up the vows of a Shepherd, he might garner the kind of things we've seen from him- the extensive battle knowledge yet the desire to be gentle, and not kill.

More later, I need to think [Smile] .

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twinky
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[Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

And yet [Frown] , because now it's over for you. You have seen all there is.

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TMedina
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My pet theory is a more predictable one - Padre had his fill of violence and blood on his hands and is trying to find redemption in doing the Lord's work.

If he was interested in maintaining a cover, he'd never have flashed the ID badge, nor wielded a weapon with such expert accuracy.

-Trevor

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Teshi
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twinky: You captured what I feel perfectly. It's like coming to the end of a great first book in a series and then finding out the author couldn't or didn't write any more. I just can't get over it.
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twinky
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Yeah, I know. [Frown]
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imogen
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I have also been performing visual gymnastics but have emerged spoiler-free.

We have no watched up to Safe.

I love it, I love it, I love it! [Big Grin]

Shindig is probably my favourite so far. Very funny, Whedon-dialogue at its best.

My only complaint is I think the whole "Mal is rough and tough but really has a heart of gold" is being beat over our heads a bit. I get it. He's unpredictable but deep down he cares. Ok already.

But it's great. They better make a movie otherwise I will be a very unhappy camper.

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Portabello
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At least you've got Jayne who is rough and tough but deep down is just a selfish donkeyhole.
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Noemon
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[Laugh] Porter

Imogen, there will definitely be at least one film; it's already in the can, waiting to be released. If it does well there will be two more.

Teshi, you're officially the only person I know who can get away with saying "holy crumpets". Well, I could maybe see kat saying it, I suppose, but still--one of a select few.

I do agree with you that whatever else he may be, Book truly is a shepherd.

Isn't that business with the opening and closing sequence interesting? I *think* that I noticed that on first viewing, but you know how fickle memory can be.

I love your mutilated sapling analogy--fits incredibly well.

I'm so glad that you had a chance to see the series, and I loved following along with you as you discovered each episode. Now I get to do it with Imogen. [Smile]

You might be interested in checking out the forums at FireflyFans.net. Not as robust a community as ours, it seems to me, but there are some interesting discussions of Firefly in its archives.

Here is the writer's draft of an episode that didn't get produced:

Dead or Alive

I suspected that it was fanfic at first, but it would seem that it's legit.

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