posted
This is JenniK posting as Kwea.... I have actually watched their show. The children are all home schooled by the mother, and they are allowed to watch very minimal television (something like an hour per week - if that). They are a very religious family who believe that all of their children are gifts from God and try to share their beliefs (or explain) them wherever they go. None of the children play sports (can you imagine being "soccer mom" to 19 kids of different ages?), but they do play games and do activities as a family. The older kids help the younger kids, both with their care and their learning.
The family owns several rental properties which helps pay for all of those kids, they apparently shop at second hand stores and the like, and as I have heard it, they do not use any products from big name brands unless those companies are willing to pay them for endorsing their products! This I have a problem with. If you ever do get to watch the show and see some logo "fuzzed" out so you can't read it, this is the reason.
Other than that, they are a highly scheduled and ordered family for having 18 kids already (with a set of twins). Many of the places they go are paid for them (Disneyland), and they are asked to speak in many places, but they get a speaking fee for this service (unless it is a church). So they are in the business of making money (they need to in order to support all those kids). I don't think they are creepy, but I am put off by the constant preaching...even if it is when they talk of saying the word "Nike" when they see a woman dressed immodestly so the boys will lower their eyes! That is a bit much (think of a woman wearing a tank top...that is immodest to them.) SO that is what I have seen and noticed about them.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scholarette: Biblically defined gender roles are awesome when you are a man. When you are supposed to be the subservient one, it is a very different view. Though to be fair, my husband wishes he was the stay at home dad- our agreement on that was whoever got a job that paid the bills worked- I tutor part time with Sylvan so that my resume won't have a large blank spot on recent work.
"Biblically defined"* roles in general - along with socially defined roles, culturally defined roles, parentally defined roles or roles defined by whoever else feels the need to define who somebody else should be - are probably just ducky for people who fit into those roles anyway. For people that don't fit the roles someone else has assigned to them, trying to fit can be pretty miserable, futile, and a waste of human potential.
*I don't think that the Bible defines roles so much as reflects the cultures in which it was written nor do I think that we, most of the time, correctly interpret even that.
ETA: I watched a few minutes of their show last night because of the conversation here. They were eating in an Ethiopian restaurant. Given their clear disdain for whatever Ethiopian culture was presented for them (food, dancers, and so forth) I don't feel particularly bad about calling them creepy.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Its a complicated story BB. Adoption is an option we have considered but there are a lot of complex reasons I don't really care to go into that we've never pursued it.
I wish I could answer your question about how have dealt with it. It is very personal and I'm never very comfortable talking about such personal things even with close friends. But it isn't just that, I don't really have any idea what to say. I don't understand it well enough to have the words to articulate it. I think perhaps I avoid exploring the question to avoid reopening wounds. Perhaps it is a that it is a thing that is still in flux. Some days I deal with it very badly, others I'm just fine. Let's just sayI have yet come to sufficient closure to be able to talk about it. Maybe someday, but not today.
There is a chance I might move back to Utah, probably not but there is a chance. It isn't in the immediate future but it could happen. We are much more likely to return to Montana.
Thanks for that Rabbit. I wish I had some way of pointing you in the right direction if not out and out solving your dilemma, but it sounds like an extremely difficult situation to live with, and unfortunately I am very inexperienced in this predicament.
I asked because Tiffany feels almost like she is wearing a scarlet letter because we've been married 3 years, she's 24, and she does not have any children while many of the women her age have one, two, three, even four kids. I'm trying very hard to make my career work so that the financial obstacle is out of the way, but it just hasn't happened yet, and if it doesn't happen in another year, I'm not sure what I will do.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
My mother-in-law's father is one of six (with one of the sons named after the father and one of the girls named after the mother), she is the only girl of 6 kids, and she had 5 kids. My husband is the youngest of the 3 boys and 2 girls and thought his name was TodChadDerek until he went to kindergarten. How in the world would you keep all J names straight?
Posts: 204 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
BB, you have my best wishes that you and Tiffany have a life that beautifully suits and works for you.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
kmbboots: Out of curiosity, what exactly was said about Ethiopian food? Just the standard "Ewww, gross, I can't believe that people eat that?" or something more controversial?
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: ... I asked because Tiffany feels almost like she is wearing a scarlet letter because we've been married 3 years, she's 24, and she does not have any children while many of the women her age have one, two, three, even four kids.
If it helps, she would have plenty of company (as in the majority) in Canada even if she waits 6 years. Its just a matter of perspective.
quote: In 2007, 115,415 babies were born to women aged 30 to 34, the highest number of all age groups and up 3.7% from 2006.
During the previous 10 years, there was an important shift in the age structure of fertility. In 1997, the age-specific fertility rate was highest among women aged 25 to 29. (The age-specific fertility rate is the number of births per woman within a specific age group.) In 2006, the highest fertility rate shifted from that age group to women aged 30 to 34.
posted
Mucus, it wasn't so much what was said, it was the facial expressions. I have no problem with people not liking cerain types of food - it probably wouldn't be my thing either. It was the sort of eye-rolling, smug attitude that surprised me. I expected them to have better manners.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote: How in the world would you keep all J names straight?
My husband has a huge family with the J-name tradition going back four generations. But they actually do remarkably well remembering/saying the correct names. You almost have to, because they all sound so much alike. Usually the trouble comes in the children understanding the names and not all responding at once, especially when they're abbreviated. Then you get Jesse/Jilly/Jazzy/Jacci/Josie/Jodie/Johnny/Joshy. Those are all real nicknames in our family, for names that are actually pretty unique and far more easily distinguishable. Jesse, Jillian, Jazmine, Jacqualine, Josephine, Jodie, John, Joshua. It drives me bonkers.
quote: I don't think they are creepy, but I am put off by the constant preaching...even if it is when they talk of saying the word "Nike" when they see a woman dressed immodestly so the boys will lower their eyes! That is a bit much (think of a woman wearing a tank top...that is immodest to them.)
A couple of the branches of our family also seem to have developed this extremist view on female clothing. I view it as problematic, not because I think there's anything wrong with wanting to dress modestly, but because it seems to warp their whole view of humanity. It's tough to talk to a fifteen-year-old who only wears long, blousy shirts and skirts because she "doesn't want to give boys the wrong idea." Not because she doesn't want them to see her body, but because she thinks they'll get the impression that she's easy if she wears short sleeves. That strikes me as an unhealthy view of the people around you, not to mention men in general.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Interesting choice of words, Nike - invoking the goddess of victory whenever you see a hottie is kind of an amusing thought. I wonder why they chose that word? I don't know that they would consider Nike to be a model of modest dressing, that top is kind of clingy!
posted
All this talk about Ethiopian food is making me want to go out and get some for dinner this weekend.
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I asked because Tiffany feels almost like she is wearing a scarlet letter because we've been married 3 years, she's 24, and she does not have any children while many of the women her age have one, two, three, even four kids. I'm trying very hard to make my career work so that the financial obstacle is out of the way, but it just hasn't happened yet, and if it doesn't happen in another year, I'm not sure what I will do.
I feel for your wife. I had a kid about 3-5 years later than most of my friends because we just weren't ready financially and we weren't where we wanted to be. It's hard being the odd woman out, especially when you DO want kids and you see other people who are less prepared make it work. Especially when these other people start to make unhelpful comments.
Sometimes it can be difficult to tune out other people's expectations but you have to do what's right for the future success of your family. Good luck!
Posts: 36 | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Thanks for that Rabbit. I wish I had some way of pointing you in the right direction if not out and out solving your dilemma, but it sounds like an extremely difficult situation to live with, and unfortunately I am very inexperienced in this predicament.
I asked because Tiffany feels almost like she is wearing a scarlet letter because we've been married 3 years, she's 24, and she does not have any children while many of the women her age have one, two, three, even four kids. I'm trying very hard to make my career work so that the financial obstacle is out of the way, but it just hasn't happened yet, and if it doesn't happen in another year, I'm not sure what I will do.
Thank you for your concern and understanding. I think I may have painted to stark a picture in my previous post. I am not unhappy with my life or perpetually troubled by not having children. I am not looking for anyone to resolve my inner conflicts or point me in the right direction. Although my life is not all that I might have dreamed as a young girl, it is a good life and the life I believe God intended for me. I have for the most part come to accept that I'm not going to be able to fully resolve these inner conflicts until I am able to see with God's full perspective. Until them, I am simply trusting and trying to find joy in the life I have rather than focus on the life I don't.
As for you and Tiffany, remember that you too are individuals. God doesn't expect you to be like all the other young couples you know. There will be a right time for you to have children and you need to decide that thoughtfully and prayerfully based on your personal situation and then you need to have the confidence to do what is right for you without concern for or comparison to all of those around you. Having children isn't something you should do because its what your peers expect. It is a very important step. It will radically impact not only your life and Tiffany's, but also the lives of all your future children. Don't let culture and peer pressure be the determining factor in your decision.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Also, is there a chance in the near future that you would come back to Utah?
When I first responded to this question, I presumed you were asking if I would be moving back to Utah. Now that you started a Utahcon thread, it made be wonder whether you were actually asking if I would be visiting you to any time soon.
I have family in Salt Lake and have visited there a couple of times during the past year and will very likely be visiting again around Christmas.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I love hatrack. Few other places on the internet would the mention of "Nike" lead someone to think first of the goddess, and not the shoe company. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Belle: I love hatrack. Few other places on the internet would the mention of "Nike" lead someone to think first of the goddess, and not the shoe company.
posted
I thought of Nike the goddess, but only because I don't know much about her and made the assumption that she was a harlot or some such. I guess my brain translated it as "Jezebel."
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Belle: I love hatrack. Few other places on the internet would the mention of "Nike" lead someone to think first of the goddess, and not the shoe company.
It's a link to one of Chabad Lubavitch's sites. I assume a reference to the fact that Lubavitchers frequently have many kids. (Why them and not Satmar, Belz, or some other Chassidish group? Well, I doubt Satmar or Belz have websites. )
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: I thought of Nike the goddess, but only because I don't know much about her and made the assumption that she was a harlot or some such. I guess my brain translated it as "Jezebel."
Part of me wants to name one of my daughters Jezebel because dang it that name needs to be taken back!
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, that's fairly gross. But I have to say that I really wanted to name my daughter Jezebel, too. It's a freaking cool-sounding name, at least to Hebrew-non-speakers such as myself. Obviously, the social stigma alone was enough to make me change my mind, but I think Jezebel is probably my favorite female name ever.
ETA: I mean, for the nickname alone. Jez!
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I kinda want to have a son named Raistlin. But I also feel like if I have children I should at least try to adopt one of the many (somewhat) older children in fostercare. And I hear they come with names.
Cause, clearly, the only reason you wouldn't name a child Raistlin is if they had already come with a name.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I know an 8 year old boy named Raistlin. He's not in foster care, and he has a lot of people who would get him first, but where there is one, there must be more.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: Well, that's fairly gross. But I have to say that I really wanted to name my daughter Jezebel, too. It's a freaking cool-sounding name, at least to Hebrew-non-speakers such as myself. Obviously, the social stigma alone was enough to make me change my mind, but I think Jezebel is probably my favorite female name ever.
ETA: I mean, for the nickname alone. Jez!
You could always go for "Jezre'el' as a sustitute and use the nickname Jez!
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
But isn't that word play, rather than what the name literally means? I mean she was eaten, processed, and excreted just prior to that comment being made.
The only way to deal with a stigma is to be brave enough to attack it. Of course it might be terrible for a young girl who every time she gets mad people say, "figures." Oddly enough it surprises me how many people at church know Jezebel slew the prophets and tried to get Elijah, but almost nobody knows who she met her end. Then again, maybe that part of the story just doesn't make for good Sunday School material. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: But isn't that word play, rather than what the name literally means?
No.
In fact, it almost certainly was not her real name, but the name the text gives her because of her actions.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
rivka: Hmm, out of that list I actually knew a Na'amah, went on a date with a Naomi, met a Tzipporah (She was Jewish), watched Shira on my television set in the 80's, but you've got me with Yocheved, Zilpha, and Bilhah. Are any of those names in use in Israel?
Nothing wrong with non-Biblical names but whenever you brave the dark and create your own name there is usually a period of time, sometimes one that never ends, where you have to endure the weird looks.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I see the name Raistlin I think of "Wheel of Fortune."
Why?
For the big money round you are given the following letters--RSTLN and an E. Raistlin is the key to winning Wheel of Fortune. See, he did become the ultimate evil.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
Yocheved is quite common. Bilhah and Zilpah are pretty rare -- they were secondary wives, after all.
There are many many non-Biblical names that won't get you weird looks. There are books upon books and sites upon sites just chock full of them!
And I suspect you'd get far weirder looks for Jezebel than for most anything else you could come up with!
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: What does Jezre'el mean, Rabbit? That's pretty cool, too.
Jezréel means "God Sows" or something like that. It is the name of am ancient city and valley in central Israel. The city of Jezréel was home to King Ahab and Jezabel. I don't know think its ever been used commonly as a person's name, but I think it would make a great name. Its one of the things I considered naming a daughter, should I ever have had one.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Um, so...this is really weird. That Naomi I mentioned? I haven't seen her or heard from her or heard about her in thirteen years because she's been doped up and in a halfway house. But within about five seconds of making that post, my dad called and said she's clean, and we're all going up to see her next month. Talk about coincidences.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: What does Jezre'el mean, Rabbit? That's pretty cool, too.
Jezréel means "God Sows" or something like that. It is the name of am ancient city and valley in central Israel. The city of Jezréel was home to King Ahab and Jezabel. I don't know think its ever been used commonly as a person's name, but I think it would make a great name. Its one of the things I considered naming a daughter, should I ever have had one.
It was also the name of Hosea's oldest son.
I met a Peninnah once. She had a very positive way of looking at her Biblical eponym.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
I don't even think as Penina as uncommon! I know lots. And it's a lovely name -- it means pearl.
As for the Biblical personage, I suspect the Jewish take on her is quite different than the Christian.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tom, I have to say that I don't know very many of the details. She's not been in the halfway house that long, but she's been in the care of various institutions like that. The last few years she's been in a place that, in theory, was supposed to keep her from using, but she had enough knowledge to mix over-the-counter medicines that she purchased during the weekly outing to Wal-Mart to get the kind of effects she was looking for. I have to assume that she wasn't very well monitored. I really have very little info.
But she's in a nursing home, now, and she's not getting the stuff. So that's good.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
