posted
I just finisher re-reading Ender's Game after finishing SotG and I was wondering what happened to the rest of the Jeesh members.
To my understanding Ender's Jeesh consisted of all of the people who fought with him as his commanders in the 3rd Bugger War leading up to the Xenocide, in Ender's Game it is said that when Ender first meets his commanders over the headset that there were dozens, implying that there were at least 24 members.
Then in SotG they have a meeting of the Jeesh members and there are not nearly that many there. Was this an oversight (I can't image OSC re-reads all of his previous books whenever he writes a new one so I can see how this would happen) or was the Jeesh only those commanders that Ender was closest to (we know that he was close to Petra, Bean, Crazy Tom, Han Tzu, Dink, Fly, etc. so this would make sense)?
Anyone have any insight on something I might have missed or other possible explinations?
Posts: 38 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ender’s Jeesh is individuals Ender commanded in the Third Bugger War. Let’s see, Alai, Bean, Petra, Dink, Crazy Tom, Shen, Hot Soup, Fly Molo, Carn Carby, Vlad, and Dumper. I thought they were all there, exception of Alai, Hot Soup, in the SOTG. I have to get ready to go to work….maybe someone else can clarify these for you.
Posts: 333 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeaaaaaah..... I noticed this two in fact in EG I think it says theres around 24ish people. I'm going to have to reread it to make sure.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Aaaaargh! We looked up all the NAMED members of the jeesh when I was doing Shadow, but nobody noticed that reference to "dozens."
So we were going on the belief that the named ones were ALL.
Now I have to kill myself.
No, I'm just going to go find every copy and black out the offending line about "dozens." It will take me the whole rest of my life, and I'll never write anything else. But I don't deserve to anyway, since I can't be trusted to get all the details of a novel right when I go back fifteen years later to write a parallel novel.
posted
I always assumed that the jeesh consisted of a smaller group - just the people Ender was closest to - as opposed to everyone he commanded in the final battles. After all, not everyone that works on a project together or part of a team is socially compatible with everyone else on the team.
posted
Hey, Stephen King was allowed to go back and 'fix' and re-align The Gunslinger when he was on the verge on finishing the Dark Tower...
Posts: 2689 | Registered: Apr 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course, you could just convince your publisher to send out a free "corrected: version to everyone who's bought one already. Please.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:I always assumed that the jeesh consisted of a smaller group - just the people Ender was closest to - as opposed to everyone he commanded in the final battles.
That’s what I always thought. Like core 11 Jeesh? Besides, I don’t think “dozens” was named in EG individually. Third Bugger War story was based on Ender with core 11 Jeesh. And those 11 were in the SOTG. I don’t have any problem with it.
Posts: 333 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I still don't have SOTG. My mother doesn't want to get it because it's in hardcover only. *WEEEEEEEEEEP!!!*
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here is the exact line about htis, I just had gone back to re-read EG after Giant and noticed that line sticking.
"You have been assigned three doezen such leaders to train. You must teach them intelligent tactics; you must learn their strengths and limitations; you must make them into a whole." Page 273 in the 1998 printing of the book.
Posts: 84 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I always assumed that there was a sort of hierarchy on Eros as well. The core members of Ender's jeesh (the ones who were chosen specifically to work with Ender AND were the ones who met up with him following his collapse into a catatonic state) were the only people who directly responded to Ender. And considering the scope of the battles, the "dozens" that were referred to in that passage were merely other students (probably older ones) who worked under the members of the Jeesh in commanding portions of their assigned ships. And yes, I know there are logical flaws in that one too and it would be easier to ignore a single sentence than concoct the above story but... well thats just my insane need to explain away any possible mistakes in things I enjoy as intentional tweaks. So I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear OSC say that it wasn't intentional. Posts: 13 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for finding that passage Demon, for the life of me I could not locate the line and I was starting to think I gave OSC a panic attack for nothing. Don't worry OSC, we still love you, half the fun of being an obsessive fan is finding errors like this and then coming up with explanations.
I tend to think that the Jeesh was an exclusive group. It would also explain why Petra always says she was the only member of the Jeesh to break in the battles while in Ender's Game it says that two more commanders (unnamed) broke after she did.
"Two more squadron leaders collapsed the way that Petra had; the pressure on the rest became all the greater."
Clearly these other two commanders were just not part of the elite group of Ender's Jeesh.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe the reference to "dozens" was part of the deception, just like how the enemy was supposedly being controlled by Mazer. Maybe all the other jeesh members were actually with the fleet, but they couldn't tell Ender that, of course. Does it say anywhere that ALL of the 3 dozen were people that Ender knew from battle school?
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The line that follows on page 274 is this, so depends on you interp it... "And Petra, and Dink; Crazy Tom, Shen, Hot Soup, Carn Carby, all the best students Ender had fought with or fought atgainst, Everyone that Ender had trusted in battle school."
So it can be expanded to include the extra who aren't listed that are just so minor we don't need to hear about them but are still there; Maybe William Bee, Momoe ect... but they had so little impact and weren't used very often except to command smaller squadrons or serve as backup, with a limited number of ships you can't have 3 dozen battle leaders every battle.
Posts: 84 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Is it possible that there were more people at the meeting in SotG, and the rest were just silent? Don't remember I"ll have to go back and read it.
Posts: 147 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Monkeys]](graemlins/monkeys.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
