posted
I don't know if I have the bad luck lately of reading the posts with it, or if it actually has been increasing. Either way, it bothers me and yes, it even offends me.
Yes, I know, some of you - potentially a lot of you - don't care. It would seem obvious that at least some of you think that the f word is worse than using deity as profanity.
Guess what? To some of us, it's the other way around.
I would much rather see 5000 f words than one using my deity or my Savior. (And I don't really want to see the f words either.)
I can't stand seeing my deity's name (title - whatever - I'm not getting caught up in semantics, here) used with the disrespect that I've seen here lately. Granted, it hasn't been every thread, or even many threads, only some threads and only some posts. But I really don't want to see it at all.
So I'm asking - begging, actually - to please leave deity out as a form of emphasis or profanity or disrespect.
posted
Worse, in my eyes, are slurs. I'd rather see a million lurid swear words than see or hear one slur. Nothing makes me angrier than that n word, that f word, any of those words. I hate them all. Even if it's someone outside of my group, I hate it.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
This is why I prefer creative, nontraditional profanity.
Some of my favorites: "Mother of toast!" "Mother pus bucket!" (From Ghostbusters) "Piss-cutter!" (From James Clavell's Shogun) "You illegitimate son of a toaster!" (Me, yelling at the Xerox machine at work.)
I draw the line at "tanj", though. That one's just ridiculous.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Hey, I remember reading about tanj from OSC's book about writing books. I kind of like using pox or poxy as a swear.
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quote: I can't stand seeing my deity's name (title - whatever - I'm not getting caught up in semantics, here) used with the disrespect that I've seen here lately.
I'm assuming that you're not referring to my habit of yelling, "Oh, Zeus!" when I whack myself with a hammer...?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Yeah, "tanj" is from Larry Niven. I'm reading the Ringworld books right now, and I'm thoroughly sick of the word. Also "futz". Also "Finagle". Also "stet", which popped up out of nowhere and caught on immediately as though people had been saying it all along, and never mind the fact that no one is using it in the correct context.
Edit: I should also point out that I can't take credit for "mother of toast". It's something an old college friend of mine said. I liked it enough to add it to my own working vocabulary.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Zeus doesn't bother me, although it would probably bother someone who worships him.
I'm talking about the G word.
But I'm also bothered even when it's misspelled, possibly in an effort of humour.
It just seems to be happening so much more frequently lately, and I'm at the point where I'm going to stop reading threads because these words are just popping up everywhere.
Problem is, I don't know - until I read them - where the offending words are going to show up. So, what? Stop reading Hatcrack altogether? Well, I suppose this is one way of curing the addiction.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Question, isn't there a bylaw in our sign in agreement about swearing? I seem to remember such. OK, I could always look.
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posted
What "stet" actually means is "no change; ignore the correction". It's used in proofreading. In the Ringworld books, it's used to mean nothing more than "okay", "right", or "understood". So it's pointless, since plenty of words already exist that actually mean those things.
Edit: As for the etymology of "stet", it's from a Latin verb meaning "to stand". So the meaning is something like "it stands [as it is]", hence "do not change this".
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You also agree that you will not use this forum to try to convert people to your own religious beliefs, or to disparage others for their own religious beliefs.
Problem is that people's definitions of profane differ. Hence this thread.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
My mum always gets made at me when I say the G word. I try to explain that, to me, it is much less offensive than many other words. That doesn't seem to make a difference to her. I usually 'win' the argument simply because I don't actually say the G word very often. I'm of the mind that there certainly is a place for naughty words.
At any case, when I'm around people who I know it *really* bothers (except my mother, oddly enough!) I try to swear more agreeably with them.
Jebus (I'm not trying to be offensive by typing it, but lets not take being offended to extremes) kind of makes me smile just because of a memory I have laughing at a joke with my friends.
I don't post much (as I was without the internet for 3 months) - but I have read a lot of threads and I haven't noticed too many bad words. That could be because, since they don't offend me, I just gloss over them.
Posts: 367 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Problem is that people's definitions of profane differ. Hence this thread.
True. But the advantage here is this: Remember whose message board we're on. For most boards, religious-based profanity would fly all over and if anyone got offended, it would just be too bad for them. But here we're on a message board run by someone who also finds that offensive. So when trying to judge whether your profanity is appropriate or not, consider whether our Gracious Host would think so.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Papa (or other Watcher), I'm having trouble finding the Hatracker forum user agreement. I understand that quid believes that Phanto's post on Book's thread is profanity. From a mod's view, is it?
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
If I ever do a comedy routine it will have a nice long bit about profanity. For example, abuse of the F-word, if taken literally, is quite comic. If you tell someone to close the f-in mouths, wouldn't that be extremely painful? I once heard someone ask "where are the F-in grapes." My reply, "Look a few inches below the navel oranges."
Christopher Stasseff once had a character chased by a burning stick because in a very literal world the character got upset when it broke and da..ed the stick with an accidental "Dang it". Now this heck stick was looking for revenge.
However, I recently had a conversation with my nephew I found very disturbing. He goes to Catholic school and was taught that the worst curse of all was Mother F... because it called into question the saintly hood of all mothers including Mary.
Huh?
That is what his teacher taught them, and on him at least, it worked to keep him from using the vulgarity. Still, it is wrong.
The best thing I do when someone uses a diety's name in vain is to respond, "Yes, you called." in my best James Earl Jones voice. Its a non-confrontational way to make them realize what they are actually saying.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I think it's a real stretch to call "for God's sake" a profanity, Quid. I don't know how many people you'll convince of that opinion who aren't already inclined to share it.
How do you feel about "zounds?"
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If you don't agree, that is your choice. I'm not saying that everyone has to agree.
But to me, it is offensive, and I don't like seeing it.
If everyone else wants to keep using it, there's nothing I can do about it except ask that it not be. Which is what I'm doing.
To me, God is my deity. He is someone I worship. He is someone I respect above all others. To see his name (title, whatever you want to call it) used in this way bothers me.
Go ahead. Say whatever you want. I still don't like it and to me, it's still profanity.
quote:I think it's a real stretch to call "for God's sake" a profanity, Quid.
Actually, its not a real stretch at all. In fact, especially considering again who hosts this place, using Deities name at all outside of religious contexts is deamed profanity.
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posted
That would include "zounds", of course. That being a contraction of "God's wounds", and all.
Not being nasty. I agree with quid here. Religious-based profanity doesn't offend me, but I think we need to keep in mind where we are, and temper our language accordingly.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Personally, I find it much easier to NOT be offended by someone using a 'deities name outside of religious contexts' than by getting worked up about it.
I guess, what I mean is, you might find it easier in the long run if you didn't take what other people write (or say) very seriously if it has the potential to upsets you not because of the message they're getting across, but because of the words they're using to do it (I hope that sentence made sense - I have a terrible headache right now). Of course, this is easier said than done.
Posts: 367 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I think that's one of the biggest problems people have with me. I don't edit my thoughts and words down to the threshhold of the most sensitive person present, and often not even to the average person's tolerance.
Course it's just as unfair to the person talking to have to cater to those more sensitive.
The flaw in the Golden Rule.
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Yes, but the problem that is set up HERE is who set this site up and why it exists. In other places I am less offended; as I expect such "ignorance of protocal" when I am listening. Here, however, ANY swear words are questionable. This is especially the case with using Deity's name in vain. If it is allowed, than I question OSC's intentions (or would like him to clarify his feelings on the subject).
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
"Yes, but the problem that is set up HERE is who set this site up and why it exists."
Intriguingly, "God" is not one of the swear words automatically edited out by our host's software. I suspect that if it were really as problematic for him as you're assuming it must be for all good Mormons (and I say this with a bit of dripping sarcasm), Phanto's posts would have even more computer-inserted asterisks in them.
We have had discussions on this site about our favorite coffees, without even a moment's thought spent worrying about whether Orson Scott Card would approve of our having a favorite coffee. Automatically assuming that your particular brand of Mormon cultural taboo is shared by our host simply because he happens to belong to the same religion -- and that he would want us to observe that particular cultural taboo, despite no instructions in that vein -- seems a bit precocious.
I see nothing wrong with Quid's original post. It bothers her, so she's asked us to stop even though we might not be troubled by it ourselves. That's a perfectly reasonable request, and I for one am inclined to do her that favor. But acting as if observing Mormon cultural doctrines were the bare minimum standard for decency on this site is something that I'm not exactly gung-ho about conceding.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Yet, TomD. God can be used in discussions where it is not used as anything near profanity. Good try, but doesn't work.
And yes, "Good Mormons" would use other swear words quicker than they would profanity of Deity. The others might be bad form, but the other is breaking a Commandment.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
You're forgetting that god as a word can also be used in discussions involved religion and beliefs, so why would it automatically be edited out?
Edited: Occasional beat me to the punch.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I submit that the mere fact that the word "God" can be used in polite conversation on multiple topics, unlike certain four-letter words that, while possessed of multiple meanings, are not considered appropriate for mixed company, suggests that the word "God" is not as inherently vulgar as those other words.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
No one's saying it's inherently vulgar. They're saying that using it as a frivolous swear word is offensive to God. That's an entirely different concept.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:using Deities name at all outside of religious contexts is deamed profanity.
quote:Yet, TomD. God can be used in discussions where it is not used as anything near profanity
Blasphemer!
Should we also not talk about drinking coffee or beer, or about premarital sex? I understand that Mormons have different standards, but from what I remember from my years attending the church, non-members aren't necessarily held to them. I was always told it was impolite and disrespectful.
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quote: They're saying that using it as a frivolous swear word is offensive to God.
More appropriately, I think they're saying it's offensive to them.
Because I do lots of things that must offend their God on a regular basis, and I don't hear Occasional complaining about it. (I don't hear God, either, but I may be suffering from stable-dwarfishness.)
But, again, I don't see anything wrong with saying, "Hey, I find this personally offensive. Could you cut it out?" What bothers me is the assertion that the alternative is inherently indecent and/or improper.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:What bothers me is the assertion that the alternative is inherently indecent and/or improper.
I don't know if I'm being obtuse, but I don't understand what you're saying with this. Would you please clarify?
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Well, for one thing, you seem to be taking it as a given that "God," when used in this fashion, is being used disrespectfully. I submit that even the most devoutedly atheist of us -- even KoM -- does not say something like "by God" for that purpose. I recognize why you feel that this usage is ultimately disrespectful, but it's worth noting that I am absolutely and completely sure that it is never intentionally disrespectful, even among the unbelievers here. Moreover, there seems to be a latent assumption that such usage of the term would be interpreted by our host as a horrible slight, based solely upon your shared religion -- despite the fact that he, his wife, and other official representatives have never once, in a decade, publicly criticized such usage. While they may indeed consider it offensive to the extent that they would not use such terms themselves, they also clearly do not consider it so offensive as to require their intervention (unlike many other words and assorted vulgarities which HAVE provoked official reaction.)
And I'm not even going to get into Occasional's attitude. He's way too holy for me to judge.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
The problem, as I have already said, is that using "God" as a profanity is more than considered by Mormons a cultural yes or no. I have conceded that other swear words could easily be considered such. However, avoiding using the Deity's name in vain is considered a COMMANDMENT as in one of the TEN.
And, contrary to what you think, I am actually assuming that Card is a "Good Mormon" on this subject, until he says otherwise. In other words, until farther notice it might be best to be careful at THIS SITE. I am, however, willing to change my expectations as soon as OSC or a representative does respond. That won't, however, change my feelings on the subject in general.
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posted
I'm sorry you choose to take offense where none is intended, Quid, and I hope you stick around, but I, personally, will not support you in this.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I personally filter my speech here on hatrack becausesome things that I would say, for example, to my wife, would be considered offensive here.
I don't think it's too much to ask for to not use language that is offensive to others.
I also would appreciate it if people would refrain from using the name of deity as an explitive, pejorative, etc..
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
"However, avoiding using the Deity's name in vain is considered a COMMANDMENT as in one of the TEN."
Man. Remind me never to mention that I don't particularly respect my parents, or that I'm all about coveting my neighbor's ass. I only hope the fact that He is not in actuality the Lord my God never becomes common knowledge.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Seriously, is that how the "take my name in vain" thing is interpreted by Mormons? Because I've always heard that such an interpretation is in fact based on a very flawed understanding of the text.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
TomD. that depends on if those subjects are against the policy of this site. And, using profanity IS considered against the policy of this site. You are trying to argue from a position I am not stating.
Edit: you, again, have heard wrong. Mormons take using Deity's name in vain VERY seriously.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Man. Remind me never to mention that I don't particularly respect my parents, or that I'm all about coveting my neighbor's ass. I only hope the fact that He is not in fact the Lord my God never becomes common knowledge.
Thank you TomDavidson, I'll now go to bed smiling.
Posts: 367 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Again, my point is that despite a decade of opportunity, our hosts have never indicated that they consider casual use of the word "God" to be inherently profane.
That Quid is offended is a perfectly good reason for those of us who like and respect her to cut back on it. But I'm not buying the pro forma.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Oh, I agree Tom. The second an admin tells me I cannot say God (or [g]od if you prefer), I'm outta here. I'm all for being courteous to my fellow hatracker, but I'm not going to bend to any religion's will for the sake of anyone. Sorry, no can do.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I can understand your last point TomD. However, I do think this thread (notice I haven't spread it to those who have used it in other threads) is the perfect opportunity to get better imput from the author and host.
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