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SO*, we moved this summer and had to choose new schools for our kids. I had no problem picking my son's school. Everything looked good. I liked the administrator, the principal had excellent credentials and I met a number of the kids that would be my son's classmates and liked them. The school was clearly not rolling in money, but it seemed very much like the type of school we were leaving behind. I filled out the paperwork, we did our interview, and it was settled about two weeks before school started.
So then the first week, I find out that the so highly qualified principal left over the summer and wasn't returning. And the teacher I thought my son would be having had also left. A new teacher was hired around the time we finalized our paperwork and had the interview. When the previous teacher left, she apparently took some of the school's property with her, including curriculum that was supposed to be there for the start of the year. So they had no spelling books when they started. Meanwhile the superintendent of the school took over the principal role (despite having no formal training in education), with the consent of the board for directors.
I discovered all this shortly after the first week of school. No mention of any of this turnover was made during our entrance interview. I was pretty upset to say the least, especially after seeing my son's first spelling list, which was laughable. So I spoke with someone on staff I trusted (my husband's co-worker's wife is a teacher at the school) and she encouraged me to get to know Christian's teacher and see if by knowing her it gave me some more confidence.
So I did that and found that I really *really* liked his teacher. She's very competent and caring, and very thorough. She'd been thrown into a very difficult position by having to start this job with almost no time to get it ready. The classroom was bare when she started, so she'd spent hours getting it ready for the first day of school. Understandably, the spelling thing fell by the wayside. Within two weeks she had better lists and things looked like they'd be running much smoother.
Last week was parent/teacher conferences. It was a good conference, but that day there were more shakeups at the school. It was announced that morning that the high school would be closing and would reopen the following Monday by invitation only. This was in response to vandalism and cheating issues they'd been having since the year began. Six students were not invited back and with that loss of incoming tuition, the science instructor was laid off (he also taught my son's class for science). We took this news as just news, since Christian is a few years away from HS. We left the conference feeling good about the class my son was in, but not all that great about the school itself.
Monday they fired Christian's teacher because she has Lupus and was not considered reliable enough due to the symptoms of the disease. Yes, she had missed some school and that was concerning, but we didn't see this coming at all.
You might say I was a little angry about this.
I've scheduled an appointment with the superintendant. It's tomorrow late afternoon. Honestly, I am so angry with her I don't know where to start. But I feel it's only courteous to at least give her a chance to explain what they think they're doing. And to personally tell her face to face that we have intend to withdraw Christian from the school as of the Christmas holidays.
So, how would you start this conversation?
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Be polite. Explain the history of the situation. Explain that you feel it's been too unstable, and any expectations you had have had to change. You'd prefer to go somewhere a bit more reliable.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I have no clue, and I had a totally public education, but my second grade teacher missed 82 (out of 180) days of school due to undiagnosed rheumatoid arthritis, and she stayed on staff (of course it wasnt' her first year) multiple subs were asked not to come back though (we had over 40 subs that year).
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I don't know how I would start it, but I would definitely let her know about your reasons for picking the school in the first place (and then maybe how they should have told you about the changes in the interview!). I would also make sure that she knows how much you liked Christian's teacher (that just got fired) and why. Be specific, sound like a well-researched parent (which you are).
Now that I think about it, a good way to start it might be "What do you think of parent involvment? How do you feel about my being here? Is this standard practice?" Get a feeling for how confrontational (or helpful) she is or is not. It's possible that she won't even care to take a chance to explain her actions. She may even think that you're a pain in the neck for asking. If she doesn't want to explain or if she doesn't seem to care what you think, I'd go in with both guns blazing just to let her know that she's the reason that you're withdrawing your child. But that's just me.
posted
>>>Monday they fired Christian's teacher because she has Lupus and was not considered reliable enough due to the symptoms of the disease. Yes, she had missed some school and that was concerning, but we didn't see this coming at all.
I could be wrong, but I do believe that is illegal. I'm shaky on details, but I think being fired because she wasn't "considered" reliable enough is NOT okay. If she misses work all the time without calling in, maybe there is grounds... but if not, then she's been fired simply because she has Lupus. Perhaps the ADA has something to say about that?
I don't really have anything to add in terms of advice, but good luck!
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Good morning. Before we begin, I would like to say that teachers, administrators, and curriculm I that were here when we signed up for this school have all been removed. Please, tell me why we should not take our son out of this school at the Christmas holidays?
Then sit back and take note of what the Super Intendent says. Ask for any promises they make to be written down so that no confusion will exist later. Be courteous and listen carefully. Thank them after they are done.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think I like Dan's suggestion best. I'll talk with my husband and see if he agrees, then we'll dive in. I'm filling out admissions papers for the other school we had originally considered.
Narnia, they're fine with parent participation. I would just pull him out without the courtesy of further discussion, but I have spent time on the campus helping with various things and think it's possible that there's more to this than my perspective. People I like and respect are sticking around through this. They're not just lazy parents who don't really care if their kids get a good education. They really do care. So while I'm not thinking that there's much they can say to change my mind, I'm not fully ruling out the possibility either.
Princess Leah, I wondered that too. My feelings about her aside, it strikes me as fundamentally unChristian to dismiss someone because they have a disease. I'm not sure if Washington is a no-fault termination state. Colorado is (where my employer is located, and I had to sign legal documents when I moved back to Washington, waiving whatever rights my new state of residence guarantees regarding employment). If WA is no-fault, then they could legally fire her for no reason at all. But it doesn't make it right.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I agree with Leah-- I'm pretty sure that that's illegal. Even in a no-fault state, if the give a reason for termination that is illegal, it's still an illegal firing.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Well, in the letter they sent home on Monday, it said outright that her health was the reason they were letting her go. I'd be interested to know what Dagonee thinks... I'm pretty sure that Joanna wouldn't sue, but it would be good for her to know her options.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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We have had similar situations in my sons' school. Typically, the parents get together and a couple of them approach the head of the school. This has worked very well for us.
The other positive aspect about getting together with the other parents is that you can get a feel for what your options are should you decide to change schools. In one case at our school, where the admin decided to not make the corrections requested by the parents, two families left and their children joined another school together. This worked out well because the kids walked into a new school, but didn't feel completely alone the first days.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Depends on what the actual reason for dismissal was...they can't fire her for having Lupas, but if the disease caused her to violate their teacher's attendance policy then it could be, providing that was the actual reason for termination given....and providing she was fired and not asked to resign....
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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LadyDove, there is another school here that's almost equal distance. The main reason I didn't choose it after visiting both schools was that it is more "formal" than the one he's currently attending. They require skirts for the girls and ties for the boys for chapel (they can wear regular casual clothes any other time). I don't think Christian has a tie, so we'll have to get him one if we switch. The other reason is that the tuition is significantly more at this other school. But they also have much better resources than I originally understood the current school to have, and more than twice the number of students. We could swing the increase in tuition, especially if I don't replace my van, as I'd been planning to do early next year. Currently, he's only got 5 other boys in his grade. At the new school, he would have 10+. Which gives him a better selection of new friends to make. If we do it.
I'll see what the superintendant says. Since we're a new family at the school, I don't feel like I need to have loyalty to it, and do feel very much that the school has been misrepresented by their current administration. I know that we're not the only unhappy family. But I don't want to indulge in gossip, tempting as that is. I'd prefer to just talk with her directly, get it done with and make decisions from there. We have just enough time to get the paperwork done and required interviews and evaluations so he could transfer after Christmas if needed. I was pleased that the new school requires evaluation testing before admission -- the current school did not, which should have been a warning flag.
Thanks, all of you. I'm dreading this and your encouragement is going right to my heart. I've got the fired teacher's phone number, so I thought I'd call her tomorrow to see how she's faring.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:they can't fire her for having Lupas, but if the disease caused her to violate their teacher's attendance policy then it could be, providing that was the actual reason for termination given
Actually, they're required to make reasonable accommodation, including allowing her medical leave as required by the state and federal governments and getting a substitute, from what I've heard from teacher friends with chronic health conditions.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I worked as a labor law paralegal and I would absolutely have referred her to my bosses.
quote:Well, in the letter they sent home on Monday, it said outright that her health was the reason they were letting her go. I'd be interested to know what Dagonee thinks... I'm pretty sure that Joanna wouldn't sue, but it would be good for her to know her options.
I would probably pull him out just for that letter, if I was in your situation. Aside from broadcasting an illegal termination, it is completely inappropriate of them to a) share the details of any aspect of this teacher's employment and b) share the details of her health.
It might help to type up a list of the things you're unhappy with and bring it with you. That way, you won't forget anything if the conversation gets sidetracked, etc.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Yeah, um...what everyone else said. As soon as I read about her termination, alarm bells went off in my head. She's got options.
And as a parent of a child whom she taught, you're also in a position to offer support.
And, yeah. What dan said.
Hope it works out. How's Christian feeling about his teacher getting fired? That's got to be disruptive as well.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Christian wasn't happy about losing his teacher. He liked her. He's got a very laid back personality, though, so he's rolling with it.
The exact wording of the letter is: "You may have noticed that Miss B----- had missed several days of school recently. She has struggled with her health. To promote continuity and stability the Board prayerfully decided that replacement of the 5th/6th grade teacher would be best for all concerned."
Christian told me that she had lupus a couple of weeks ago when she was out for a few days. The class was praying for her.
Mrs. M, the more I go over the letter, the more I agree with you. I just can't see how they thought this was appropriate, legal, or Christ-like. And to say they 'prayerfully decided' is IMO equivilent to saying that God told them to fire her. I can't believe they'd say it, let alone broadcast it.
The list idea is a very good one. I'm going to do that.
Thanks all for the encouragement. I'll let you know what happens. Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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That letter sounds exactly like they fired her because of her health. She's so got a case. And I'm sorry to say it, but from the other problems you're citing, it kind of sounds like this school deserves to be taken down. I hope she does it.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Well, the confrontation was about as productive as could be expected. As I didn't expect much, that's about what was accomplished. What I learned most significantly out of the discussion was that the director is in no way qualified to be heading up a school, and from the information I got from Miss B___ (I spoke to her yesterday afternoon), it's clear that the school is in serious financial distress, but the way the administrator is handling it is to do damage control. The verse that comes to mind is "Know the truth and the truth will set you free." IMO, the moment the previous principal left the school (according to discusion last night, it was the week before school started, which doesn't match what several other people told me), they should have held an open all school meeting.
One of my concerns had to do with lack of curriculum, and it appears that they decided not to order workbooks to save money. And it also appears, according to Miss B____, that the real reason they let her go was that she was at the top of the pay scale. They started off the dismissal interview by attributing it to her health, but she protested and said that if a student was not performing to appropriate levels, they'd be put on probation. She asked them to put her on probation instead. She said that the board member who was dismissing her then leaned closer and said quietly that just between the two of them, the real reason was they couldn't afford her, as she was currently the highest paid teacher on staff. She suggested taking a pay cut until things got better, and they agreed to discuss it further later in the weekend after she'd had a chance to calculate what she could afford to live on. She went home and prayed about it, considered the other issues the school has been having and decided that taking a pay cut would only solve a very temporary problem to which they have no long or short term plan to relieve. So she revoked her offer to take a pay cut and was terminated.
The truth I'm gathering is that because the current philosophy is damage control instead of full disclosure and transparency, the school has little chance of retaining reasonable academic standards, and worse, is being led in a way that is contrary to Biblical teaching. The way the high school problems were handled is illustrative.
So I finished filling out the admissions papers for the other school and we go on a second tour today. Christian is very upset about having to leave the school, as he'd just started making friends. That is probably the hardest part of this whole experience. He pays for my lack of discernment and not paying closer attention to the early red flags I saw. I know it's the right thing to do. But that doesn't make it any easier.
If the other school doesn't prove suitable, there's another school farther away that I can look into. It's farther than I wanted to go, but it's not impossible. It's quite a lot bigger and has significant financial resources.
Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement through this. The past couple of days have been the worst I've had in a long time. We're not out of it yet, but at least I have a course of action ahead of me, and that's always encouraging. Thanks again...don't know what I'd do without Hatrack.
quote:And to say they 'prayerfully decided' is IMO equivilent to saying that God told them to fire her. I can't believe they'd say it, let alone broadcast it.
No kidding. I hate it when people try to pass the buck onto God when they are doing something crappy.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote: He pays for my lack of discernment and not paying closer attention to the early red flags I saw.
Honey, we decided that the red flags weren't THERE when they really should have been. This isn't your fault and I see a very discerning and thoughtful mom who is doing what is best for her child. You're very on top of things, and Christian is a resiliant little guy I'm sure. He'll be so much better off in the long run because of the trouble you're going through right now. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Yes, she knows. She saw the letter night before last when she was dropping off completed report cards. She was very upset when I talked with her, and said that it was absolutely untrue.
Further, she said, that the fact that the school knows she has lupus is a blatant breach of confidentiality. The only person she's told since she started was the superintendant. She'd told no one else. I asked my son who had told him, and he said a classmate's mother told him.
She told me that in all her years as a teacher in California, she never missed more than her allotted sick time. She's had the condition a long time and knows how to manage it. The reason she was out earlier this year was because she had the flu. Which many of the kids had as well.
She's weighing her options, but she's thinking about going to graduate school to work toward guidance counselling or administration. I know both of the principals of the two Christian schools in our old town. One is a good friend. So I'm trying to connect with them and arrange for them to meet Miss B, if for no other purpose than networking. I'm going to continue to cultivate the friendship.
Overall, this situation is so political and ugly that I actually can't believe that the teachers still there are staying. The amount of gossip, game playing and dishonesty is shocking. I sincerely hope that things change for the better there soon.
(((Narnia))) You're such a kind person. Thank you. I know it will be better in the long run. He's had a day to think about the possibility, so when Itold him this afternoon that he's definitely leaving, he didn't cry or even get very wobbly about it. When I told him about some of the things he'll have at the new school, he got more positive. I'm taking Tuesday off to take him over to the new school so he can take his assessment test and meet the 6th grade teacher. Another new boy started just this week, so Christian was very relieved to know that he wouldn't be the only new kid in the class. With Christian, there will be 12 boys in the class. This should give him a good selection to find a really good friend or two among.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by jeniwren: Overall, this situation is so political and ugly that I actually can't believe that the teachers still there are staying.
As someone currently working at a school with somewhat similar garbage going on, I suspect many are biding their time. It's easier (in many ways) to not switch schools mid-year. And the 7-8 months are not as significant to an adult as to a kid.
That's what I keep telling myself, anyway. And there's also always the reluctance to give up any paying job without another already lines up.
Good luck to your family, jeni. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Jeniwren, what a sad situation! I know public schools that are run better than this! Private education should be BETTER than public schools but in some cases, they certainly aren't. I'm glad you have found something better suited to your needs and I sure hope things work out for Ms. B. Good luck and God bless you!
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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The settlement the school would give to avoid a lawsuit would pay for a lot of graduate school.
Its something she should seriously consider; the malfeasance will certainly continue as long as they continue to get away with it.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oh, and I can't help but note that the consistent result of studies comparing public and private education is that private schools have about the same distributions of good schools, bad schools, mediocre schools, et cetera, as public schools; its rarely the quality that separates them, but instead some philosophy (such as a religious affiliation) or methodology.
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And there's also always the reluctance to give up any paying job without another already lines up.
