posted
The thread title is actually the probable diagnosis for my youngest son. It stands for Pervasive Developmental Delay- Not Otherwise Specified. It's a catch all diagnosis for people with some symptoms of Autism or Asperger's but not all, or not consistently.
His pediatrician thinks he falls more under the category some physicians call Atypical Personality, because his symptoms are relatively mild and inconsistent. He walks on his toes a lot. He's constantly in motion. He tends to spin while doing his homework. He was speech delayed, and still has some trouble with abstract language, though he is very talkative. He tends to take things very literally. His handwriting is very bad.
Yet he's at the top of his class academically, and has no problem with imaginative play. He draws really well for his age.
He has been in speech and various therapeutic environments since he was three. His doctor suggested that most kids with his characteristics can be peer normal socially by 5th grade or so, with proper social training. Most are super smart, and this personality type is over-represented at schools like MIT.
I'm not upset about the diagnosis. I'm sure I would have fallen into this category as a kid, too. I managed fine without help, but my childhood was a nightmare socially. Kids sense when other kids experience the world differently and that can lead to a lot of teasing. But the truth is, he fits my family. He's a really great, funny kid, if one who is a bit too obsessed with video games.
What I'm having trouble with is that the school was about to cease his services because he's at the top of his class. At the end of first grade he was reading on a fourth grade level and doing third grade math. I didn't have a formal diagnosis from his doctor, on the required form. So I got it.
Last year his teacher was a woman with a son who is Asperger's, and she made classroom modifications for him and taught a social curriculum to the whole class. He was not the only child with special adaptations. She helped pick his teacher this year, but wasn't sure if the teacher would continue the mods. I'm not sure yet either. I've been on them about a meeting.
He's being picked on. A younger kid from down the street was hitting him and even started beating him with his back pack on the way from the bus stop. He kicked the kid in the butt and the kid cried. We talked with the mother about it and she told her son that maybe this would teach him to keep his hands off people.
But the kid still teases my son a lot. He's been doing great ignoring him.
There's also an older kid who only rides the bus in the afternoon who teases him a lot. Last year the kid told him that he'd be his friend for $10.00 and my son just could not understand why we wouldn't give him the money. "He'll take the money and then he won't be your friend." "But he said he would. He'll be a great friend." The school counselor put an end to it.
Barely two weeks into the school year, and this older kid has now punched my 7 year old in the stomach. I emailed his Special Ed teacher asking her advice. I made the mistake of asking two questions in the email. She answered one and ignored the bullying completely. Didn't even bother to tell me whose jobit would be to adress the issue.
Needless to say, I'm picking him up from school from now on, or at least until the issue is resolved. He has a friend on the bus that he only sees in the afternoon as well, whom he kind of misses. They get along well.
I am pretty much over the urge to kill.
Do you guys know of any forums or places online that I could go to get advice from other parents who've been through this type of thing? I've been surfing all morning and have found general information and meetup groups and things, but I'm having trouble finding information that really applies.
Edit: Title was inaccurate. Now it reflects the actual label
posted
This is a very quick response to the school attempting to cease services: they can't. Gifted kids can need IEPs and 504s, because gifted kids can have things like bipolar/ADHD/Tourette's/Aspergers, or deafness or limb abnormalities, any of the other reasons for needing individualized education plans, and the schools are legally required to make the accommodations. (I'm sure you know this; I'm just sayin ). I know what you mean about him fitting the family. I have kids like this, too -- a different diagnosis for mine, but a familial recognition almost. Family reunions are a bit unusual, shall we say. And I love my quirky kids and MOST of my relatives. I love their quirks.
As far as online groups, I'm part of a bipolar parents group on yahoo. I would be very surprised if there weren't similar ones for asperger/autism. The groups are enormously helpful for me.
Posts: 628 | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
This thought just occured to me, so feel free to ignore it (I now have children, but they are much younger than yours).
I was just thinking about how I was teased as a kid, and what I had to do to overcome the teasing (when I could, anyway).
The best example I can think of is when I got in trouble in elementary school for hitting someone. He had been teasing me mercilessly, and so I popped him one. We both got into deep trouble (he for teasing me and the fight that insued).
We got stuck together on a work detail for detention. We were both made to do tedious cleaning work around the school. Surprisingly, we became friends.
I'm not saying you should make your child and the other work together on some meaningless task, but forcing them to spend supervised time together may help. Of course, by "forcing" I don't mean that you should make them spend time together, but perhaps you could get in contact with the other Mom to have the kids hang out together after school sometime.
If you kid likes videogames so much, maybe, as an incentive, you can let him play videogames when he normally wouldn't be able to as a special treat. I'm sure the other kid will like video games, and so maybe it will help foster friendship.
Who knows? I'm probably just talking out of my butt, but it might work...
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
It's good you have the option of picking him up from school, I guess. Though it stinks you have to do that. My kids have a variety of peculiarities. My husband is anti-diagnosis for now. I don't feel strongly about it to make an issue.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I pretty much usually find useful links off of the Hoagie's Site that might direct you to some parent support groups like this.
There is also a forum for those with Asperger's, but those are more directed to the adult Aspie, not with parental support (although they might know of some).
But I don't have anything specific on parental advice regarding bullying (which seems to be the case in many places, even with kids that aren't special needs).
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Thanks Sharpie! I'll check that out. I'm in the process of getting the stuff started up again, and trying not to make it an antagonistic situation with the school. It was all fairly pleasant last year, with even the evaluator agreeing that he still needed support, but the rules were clear-cut in the absence of an official diagnosis. Wish me luck.
PC, it's two kids. The older one who punched him ... I only know his first name. The younger one... they were friends last year. He has also been picked on on the bus, and I've seen the utter joy on his face while he followed my boy from the bus stop, teasing him loudly. This was days after their dust up, but the same day the bigger kid punched him. He was gloating over the big kid hitting my son. I heard him say, "And when you kicked me, it didn't even hurt!" before he saw me there. My son was ignoring him, but he had been crying from his experience on the bus. I said, "That must be why you cried so hard" and told him to go home.
I don't think there's much hope there, but I'm open to the possibilities.
pooka- my pediatrician says this diagnosis is considered more of a personality type than a real disorder (at least the sub-set that fits my son). I had avoided the official diagnosis until we had to have it to continue his services. I agree that stigmas can do more harm than good sometimes. The official thing on the list was ADHD with PDD_NOS features. I'm hoping the stigma will be minimal.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Thanks, Farmgirl, I'll check it out. The Asperger's stuff is really less helpful to me than you might think, because relatively little of it applies to my son most of the time. There doesn't seem to be much for the ones that fall outside the range of autism, as is the case here. I'll keep looking.
The bullying... I just find myself hoping we do move out of the country. We can hire tutors or home school.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Olivet, I have a friend in California who has a son diagnosed w/ PDD, but I don't know any more specifics than that--except I think that he's significantly more affected than your boy, IIRC. I haven't heard from her in a while, but let me see if she has any info/suggestions for you.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Olivet: There doesn't seem to be much for the ones that fall outside the range of autism, as is the case here.
That has been my experience as well.
*hug* Good luck.
My brother has... Well, one of his diagnoses was PDD-NOS, they went through a whole thing arguing about his diagnosis for years. But long story short, yeah, there's not much for ASDs other than autism and SOMETIMES Asperger's.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
*hugs rivka* Thanks, dear. I dunno, but *I* feel better just for venting a bit.
Thanks romanylass - that would be great. My boy is very mildly affected at this point - which may be part of the problem. His differences are not obvious, so people tend to think of him merely as a child with a discipline problem. They have no idea. *sigh* The child I see at home is very different from the overstimulated kid spinning on one foot in the middle of grocery aisle.
Uprooted- that's cool. yes, my boy is only slightly affected. I think the way the doctor wrote it was "ADHD with PDD features." It's frustrating. On the one hand there are probably a lot of kids whose needs are more obvious. On the other hand, that doesn't mean he doesn't need help. A stitch in time saves nine.
You free for lunch Tuesday?
ketchup- Oy. I think I have my work cut out for me.I may just say to heck with it and go through the private sector. Our insurance is crap, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Olivet, my answer to bullying was to defend myself vigorously. No external authority or system seemed to help in the least. They all just ignored it, tacitly approving. The thing I did that fixed it was to cause severe pain to anyone who physically messed with me, then break it off. Basically, I got a reputation for being a berzerker when picked on, or if someone around me was being picked on, while remaining my friendly self in all other circumstances. So then people tended to act better around me after that, and I didn't have any more trouble. Sure you get in trouble with authorities but that's part of it. Being in trouble once or twice is better than being beat up every day for years and years, which is what happened before. So that's what I teach kids now who are being hit or kicked or whatever in school or at home. Escalate severely, be absolutely ruthless, then break it off quickly. It always worked, and nothing else did. It's a power you have inside yourself, of defending yourself, and while I wish it wasn't necessary to learn that, it's really a maturing experience in self-reliance and also self-respect.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I did that, too. Honestly, I think it might be easier for girls who do this than for boys.
A kid giggled at William for losing a 'race' to the water fountain (I later found out they were playing a 'game' to keep each other away from the water fountain or something) at martial arts. He said "Jerk!" and shoved the kid, one hand on the kid's shoulder, and he fell backward. The kid's father had a cow.
I mean, the teachers had William apologize and that was fine, but the guy acted like his child had been savaged, kind of theatrically telling his son (in a stage voice, so I could hear) that some kids were just mean, bad people. (Like, looking at me out of the corner of his eye, while petting his kid's hair and stuff. It was almost funny.
I mean I know William was in the wrong, but it seemed an overreaction to one kindergartener shoving another. Maybe it was because William is really tall and looked older. I don't know.
The guy went to the county court house, and tried to file charges against him. They told him, politely, I'm sure, that all he could do was write a letter to the martial arts place to document the incident. Then, I'm sure they laughed at him after he left.
The guy wrote a 7 page letter to the martial arts place calling my son a sociopath, and saying that "all the parents" agreed that he should be kicked out. The martial arts guy told them flat out that he would not kick him out.
This was a nightmare for me, and his behavior got worse at martial arts after that - I think because he kind of enjoyed the reputation as a 'berzerker' and I had to endure all the associated looks of scorn when he acted up (like, just laying on the mats and rolling around or whatever). He wasn't allowed to go into the changing rooms, because I couldn't go with him. The teachers would put him out of class for the slightest thing.
I switched dojangs and he's actually had no problems there.
My point is, things are different than when we were kids. If he beats the people who tease him, he'll be suspended from school and we might even start to get visits from other county agencies. In a perfect world, I agree with you, but, no. I'll homeschool first.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
In response to the school threatening to stop services...
Federal law mandates that local government budget for their schools a certain amount of money directly related to how many kids have been diagnosed as "special needs". Of course, because of this law, many schools are quick to diagnose, thereby raising their own budget (and seriously straining the town finances). So when I hear about a school not providing the top-notch service and attention that they have already been given the money to do, it makes my blood boil. It is nothing but theft from the taxpayers.
Of course, if a child really doesn't need the services anymore, than it makes sense, but they really shouldn't be too quick to jump to that conclusion.
Posts: 369 | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Wow, Olivet. I always have such a hard time reading about autism, Asperger's, etc. because I can't relate to them in the slightest. I was the opposite--fairly bright, very emotionally and psychologically aware, and extremely verbal (just ask my poor mom) but never more than average at math or science. I was also the second-shortest kid in my class all through grade school (thank goodness for that red-haired Holly).
The combination of smallness and brainyness could have led to getting bullied, but it never really did--and now that I think about it, my social and verbal skills are probably what saved me. I could be funny, or savagely cutting, or passive, or whatever a particular situation called for. The fact that I was in a culture where people were (generally) not rewarding for acting like jerks probably helped, too.
I wish I could help, but the only thing I can really say is that I couldn't disagree more with Tatiana. I don't believe that violence, particularly with the purpose of causing extreme pain, is ever "a maturing experience in…self-respect." I hope that even in this really difficult situation, you don't give in to teaching your child a lesson like that.
Of course, I'm a raving LDS proponent of Christian anarchy and pacifism, so take that for what it's worth. Posts: 100 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Pegasus: In response to the school threatening to stop services...
Federal law mandates that local government budget for their schools a certain amount of money directly related to how many kids have been diagnosed as "special needs". Of course, because of this law, many schools are quick to diagnose, thereby raising their own budget (and seriously straining the town finances). So when I hear about a school not providing the top-notch service and attention that they have already been given the money to do, it makes my blood boil. It is nothing but theft from the taxpayers.
Of course, if a child really doesn't need the services anymore, than it makes sense, but they really shouldn't be too quick to jump to that conclusion.
Diagnose? Schools don't diagnose. What kind of support can you give for this kind of statement?
Posts: 628 | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
They can give testing, but ten they gave me the test results to show his doctor. The RULES required them to street him because they had no diagnosis and he was not doing badly academically.
So I got the diagnosis from my doctor, who had pretty much known all along, and things are in motion again.
Actually, his diagnosis is ADHD with some PDD-NOS features. It's really slight enough that most folks don't see him as different at all. he's just very slow on the social uptake, usually missing subtext and things not spelled out. He also tends to take things very literally.
Basically, he's a nerd. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Olivet, I see your point. I definitely know that being a girl helped, and yet my younger brother found that this was the way that worked for him as well. He's the one who taught it to me, he and Miss Manners, who taught me to add the "Wow, I'm so sorry! You startled me! Are you okay?" after I poleaxed someone for hurting me. I agreed that her version was nicer, and more socially acceptable, so I moderated my response in that regard.
But you're right. Gentlemen instead of fighting used to have duels. Now they file lawsuits. However, I think if it's always reserved for self-defense situations, where someone else hits first, it's still the best response to immediately train them not to hit you by causing them to feel physical pain. If faced with a lawsuit in that situation, I would think the "he hit first" defense would be quite efficacious.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
It would be interesting to see if my husband were more afraid of a diagnosis or homeschooling, if it came down to that. Though my kids do pretty well with stress management of various kinds. I think of these kinds of brains as being like tempermental high performance vehicles, like a Jaguar. They're great when they're not in the shop, so to speak.
My husband grew up "never hitting back" and he thinks that's the wrong way to go because he got bullied all the way along. We still are in the process of teaching our youngsters not to initiate problems, as far as I can tell.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
William hasn't been the first to hit in a conflict in quite some time, so I think we have that one fairly under control (the thing at Marital arts was almost two years ago, and I think seeing how upset it made did more to change his behavior than anything).
I don't want him to go through the teasing I did as a child. So far it hasn't crushed his spirit, but I'm wary. I think we may hire my niece as a tutor if we go to Africa, which could be cool, but I'm operating now as if we will not be leaving.
Pooka - The label chafes a bit, but I have no illusions that I would have had similar labels if the world had been different. Also, I tend to think the more specific the label the less meaningful it becomes.
To a certain extend, we are what we were born with, but in the larger view, we are what we choose to be.If I can teach him that, the labels won't matter. It's also kind of cool to see all the really successful people with the same vague groupings of traits.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
My mom was always annoyed that her school would never share a kid's diagnosis with her and the teacher. The kids were already in her school for behavior problems mixed with some kind of mental disability. It helped to figure out which kind.
Let's face it, autistics crave a different kind of structure than bipolars. Using a label to tell a kid who they are is bad; I totally give the school that. But not using the label to help the kid just seems mean.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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The school counselor put an end to it.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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). I know what you mean about him fitting the family. I have kids like this, too -- a different diagnosis for mine, but a familial recognition almost. Family reunions are a bit unusual, shall we say. And I love my quirky kids and MOST of my relatives. I love their quirks.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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