posted
natural_mystic: I'm not sure what you're advocating, then. How do you propose the government increase employment? If you're talking about hiring directly, I can't come up with a feasible scenario leading to the benefits you hope for, myself, though I'd be interested in hearing your ideas.
Oh, one further thing: I think the government should make it much easier for home owners and banks to mutually walk away (likely in exchange for the government taking some of the hit). I feel a good bit of the labor market problems are due to decreased labor mobility. Let people get out of underwater homes and they can go to places with more hiring.
I'm trying to restrict my suggestions to politically practical ones, of course. We desperately need, but will not be getting, a vastly simplified tax code, for instance.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Pardon me. I could only take about a third of this thread when I was hit by several quick sound bites that sound like common sense, but isn't.
1) If a man making over $250K a year is hit with a new Tax of $40k, he may not be able to afford to hire that new employee at $40. True. But the reverse is not TRUE, and there is a big MAY in there. If a man making over $250K a year running his own business has $40k of his income returned to him, he will not automatically invest that money into a new employee.
Especially when he can invest in the newest high yield risky investment strategy the financial sector has created, get a larger return on their investment, and be even wealthier.
In the past, when taxes were an even larger percentage of the wealthy income, and perhaps coincidentally, when the economy was doing much better than today, tax cuts did go directly into company expansion. Today more of corporate investment goes into financial investments that do not lead to new jobs.
Proof, corporations are having a great year so far, but would rather invest in purchasing other companies, investments in other areas, etc, than in hiring new people.
2) The wealthy invest, which gives the banks money to loan out to small businesses, which leads to jobs. True, except that the banks are sitting on that money and investing it in other things that bring in greater returns, than in loaning it out to small businesses.
Proof: The large sums of money sitting in banks that is not being loaned out.
3)The Economy works the best when regulated the least:
Tell that to the Drug Companies, some of the largest and most profitable companies in the world, who must produce those drugs to the demanding regulations of the FDA. The result, people trust the Drugs they take and we became a nation of druggies. Sure, the cost of drugs in the US is double or more the costs of drugs in other countries, but that is because we trust those companies because they are so regulated.
Recently they've gotten cocky and have tried to avoid, derail, or buy out those regulations. The result is people are trusting their doctors and drug companies less.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
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The series isn't complete so hard to yet make a statement on it, but I was surprised that the gap between rich and poor has been widening and is greater than in 1915. Combating this disparity with a goal of keeping the US from becoming like Europe (with their hereditary nobility) was cited as a reason for adding the graduated income tax. Just found that amusing that now we want to get rid of socialist European ideas like the income tax when originally they were about keeping us from being like Europe.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Wasn't there a study recently were most people who thought the original stimulus package was a mistake also said it was passed under Obama's administration (when in fact it was passed under Bush)?
Here in Wisconsin, one of the few truly great Senators -- Russ Feingold -- was recently attacked in an ad that pointed out that he was a "career politician" and an "insider" at a time when Congress had passed two enormous spending bills and the TARP program to soak the "common man." The ad, of course, failed to note that Feingold was one of the few Democrats to vote against the spending bills and one of the few people of either party to vote -- quite loudly and prominently, too -- against TARP.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Theoretically, gas taxes go towards paying for road repairs, and the only people who pay them are people who drive.
I disagree. The taxes on gas are factored into the price of any good or service you purchase that has to be transported. That's pretty much everything. When gas prices go up everyone pays for it whether you drive or not.
One might say you're indirectly paying a tax on something you're indirectly doing. That is, someone else is paying the user fee for driving and passing the cost of it on to you when you buy the thing they transported.
My only problem with gas taxes is they get looted into the general fund and don't stick with building and maintaining the roads.
...
A big reason the 'pubs lost so many seats in '06 was the endless drumbeat against the war. It demoralized many conservatives. The dems got into power and tanked the economy paving the way for Obama and more Dem seats.
Unfortunately, the Dems keep doing what they're doing because they really are Keynesians. Thus, they take capital from one and give it to another thinking that's a net gain and will grow the economy. Obviously it doesn't.
Bush was this stupid too, for the record, he just used a smaller dump truck of other people's money.
I missed you so much. Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
A national sales tax is "progressive" in total dollars. You keep insisting it's regressive....how?
There are many American's that make 0 dollars and get tax "refunds"...err credits.
Equality is an equal percentage. Make nothing, pay nothing in taxes, get nothing in your refund. Live in a million dollar house, pay the same percent as the guy who lives in a 100k house. Buy a million dollar yacht, pay the same percent as the unemployed guy buying a 40 oz beer.
Of course, it's somehow unfair that everyone pay the same taxes. We all have a fairly equal amount of hours in our lives. Some people sacrifice the hours earlier in their lives to pay off later. People work 12-16 hour days while attending college and enhancing their careers, with the goal to retire early. What does this individual owe to a third generation high school dropout, welfare recipient? Many of those hard workers, who went without sleep, studied and worked their asses off came from the ghetto.
Once you make more than 200k, you're no longer white or black, you're rich. Of course, wealthy minorities tend to be conservative.
All people have a limited number of hours in their lives. Why should a 16 hour a day worker "owe" the dollars of his hours to anyone else? Working and studying sucks...it's hard work. Of course, popping out another kid for a welfare momma gets her more money....call it a different career track.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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Only if you choose to define it that way. And, frankly, I think that equality isn't and shouldn't be the goal of our tax policy.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Wasn't there a study recently were most people who thought the original stimulus package was a mistake also said it was passed under Obama's administration (when in fact it was passed under Bush)?
Here in Wisconsin, one of the few truly great Senators -- Russ Feingold -- was recently attacked in an ad that pointed out that he was a "career politician" and an "insider" at a time when Congress had passed two enormous spending bills and the TARP program to soak the "common man." The ad, of course, failed to note that Feingold was one of the few Democrats to vote against the spending bills and one of the few people of either party to vote -- quite loudly and prominently, too -- against TARP.
I've read troubling reports recently about Feingold's reelection chances. I'll be seriously depressed for awhile if he doesn't return to the Senate.
I can count the number of Washington politicians that I really trust on one hand, and he's one of them.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
When Harry Reid and Diane Feinstein are at risk.....maybe it's a sign. Oops,....Joe The Plumber was right.
Obama added more to the national debt than all the presidents in US history before him....combined.
Add them all together, including the great depression....still don't equal what he did. For the first time in US history, people think their children will have a worse life. Obama killed the American Dream.....
He promised to "Fundamentally Transform America"....he didn't lie.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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You do realize MLK supported affirmative action, right? That doesn't seem like the sort of equality that you like.
quote:and his niece stood with Glenn Beck.
And MLK's wife opposed her on some of major issues. Who do you think is best equipped to represent your legacy? Your wife or your niece?
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
"Obama added more to the national debt than all the presidents in US history before him... combined."
I love flat statements like this from malanthrop because a) you can google them and find them, word for word, on hundreds of conservative sites and blogs, and b) they're really easy to disprove.
This one is based on a statement by Karl Rove that Obama added more to the debt than Bush did in eight years. And on the face of it, that's true. Debt rose by $2.5 trillion during the Bush years, and is expected to rise another $3 trillion at Obama's 2-year mark.
But at least half of that was inherited from the previous administration - the federal budget runs from Oct. 1 to Sept. 30. Obama inherited a deficit of $1.2 trillion when he walked in the door. Some of it went to paying for the Bush tax cuts and Medicare prescription expenses, and a fair chunk was put out there for various recession-curbing efforts.
The debt will rise alarmingly under Obama. But it would also have risen under President McCain, or a third term of Bush, because previous actions and current circumstances demand it. Not because Obama is out to, mwahahaha, destroy America.
In fact, let's look at how we got here. When Bush took office, we had a surplus of $236 billion, and the CBO predicted we'd be able to pay off all redeemable debt by 2006. When Bush left office, we had a $1.2 trillion deficit and a recession. And now, because Obama can't magically whisk away the malfeasance of a decade, he killed the American Dream?
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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You do realize MLK supported affirmative action, right? That doesn't seem like the sort of equality that you like.
quote:and his niece stood with Glenn Beck.
And MLK's wife opposed her on some of major issues. Who do you think is best equipped to represent your legacy? Your wife or your niece?
I wouldn't blame MLK, if he did support affiramative action....his words weren't affirmative action.
His words were equal...content of character.
There's a long history of oppressed minorities in America...Chinese, Italians, Irish.....
The rest have overcome due to the equality of opportunity provided by our legal system. In fact, those dirty, opium smoking asian people, that lead to our nations first drug laws, are the top achievers in our schools today.
My children will succeed despite attending a 60% black and 20% hispanic school. The minorities will claim disadvantaged...in fact my white children are the minorities in the "disadvantaged" school. My children are the minority, not only racially but daddy at home, not living on welfare and they don't qualify for free lunch.
Their advantage isn't the school, town or law. Every child has an equal "legal" opportunity. Society shouldn't have to pay higher taxes for you having crappy parents.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:I wouldn't blame MLK, if he did support affiramative action....his words weren't affirmative action.
I feel very comfortable in calling this a lie, malanthrop, based on innumerable things you've said about race, race relations, and your views on what they should be like. You would absolutely blame MLK and be critical of him if he supported affirmative action.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro
And this:
quote:Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic.
quote:I believe in equality of opportunity not of outcome.
Me too. But we don't have either yet. Try again when people's implicit bias scores stop showing implicit biases against minorities and women.
quote:There's a long history of oppressed minorities in America...Chinese, Italians, Irish.....
The rest have overcome due to the equality of opportunity provided by our legal system. In fact, those dirty, opium smoking asian people, that lead to our nations first drug laws, are the top achievers in our schools today.
Stop bringing up the model minority trope to justify the disadvantages other minorities face. And that Asians still face, for that matter-- Asians still get paid significantly less than white people when we control for education.
Posts: 241 | Registered: Nov 2009
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King's words...as you quoted...only asked for equality.
They have been given more...affirmative action and ghetto living...courtesy of the democrats.
When will they catch up with the asians, irish and italians"?
For that matter, why are Arab American's the highest income "group" in our country? As a "racist" white guy, I'll admit,...I watch the arab on an airplane and ignore the black guy.
Funny,...the most distrusted minority....arab....is more successful than any other group...including whites. We should emulate the socialist european system.....arabs are given welfare but cannot succeed. Wait, maybe they modeled their treatment of arabs after ours, of blacks. We have similar problems concerning political correctness.
Slavery was a horrible mistake. Willing immigrants are readilly accepted in America. They wanted to be American, struggled to learn English and were proud to be American. Too many slave descentents never experienced the misery of their homeland and do not appreciate the privilege of being an American. Their ancestors didn't become willing indentured servants to come here. Indentured servant ancestors get more respect than slave ancestors....the slave should get more...he paid a higher price for your citizenship.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
My children are the minority in a minority school. My kids come home crying for being called "racist" when they don't like another kid. My daughter didn't know what "racist" was. I had to explain to her,..."she thinks you don't like her because she has black skin"...my girl was horrified. I grew up in the north...I never understood "southern racism". Now, living in the south, I struggle to keep my kids from becoming racist through their own experience. They know the best behaved in the class, they see the 20% white get the best grades. I've lived on both sides of the fence...northern liberals think they know...so pious for their position....I was there too and I struggle to keep my child neutral, despite her classroom experiences.
That doesn't stop my kids from being top of the class and getting good grades. My children are discriminated against by their classmates, they are the minority and they are the top of the class.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:MLK is one of my heroes. The current democrat party has twisted MLK as much as they have JFK.
Another lie. Were he alive today, you and Glenn Beck would have all sorts of invective to say about him, as is easily seen by the things you say about people who say things he has also said. It's not even difficult. If you put MLK's words in a modern liberal Democrat's mouth, you'd say 'un-American socialist' quicker'n spit, and you damn'd well know it, malanthrop. You're not fooling anyone. It's been proven you're not addressing points directly made here. JanitorBlade just asked you not do that, if I'm not mistaken.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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MLK is one of my heroes...so is JFK. Of course you ridicule me for liking my minority neighbors and act like I use them as medals to prove I'm not a racist. It's ok...I know you probably think the first black supreme court justice and the head of the RNC are Uncle Tom's.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote: I grew up in the north...I never understood "southern racism". Now, living in the south, I struggle to keep my kids from becoming racist through their own experience.
How old are you? Unless you're in your late 20s or mid 30s, your dichotomy there of northern and southern attitudes during your formative years is entirely removed from reality.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Whatever...
MLK is one of my heroes...so is JFK. Of course you ridicule me for liking my minority neighbors and act like I use them as medals to prove I'm not a racist. It's ok...I know you probably think the first black supreme court justice and the head of the RNC are Uncle Tom's.
Do you mean to imply that Clarence Thomas is the first black SC justice?
This has, almost always, been the real essence of your 'rebuttals' in these discussions, malanthrop. It's pleasing to see you finally just showing some integrity and saying it straight out instead of slapping on a few coats of paint.
As to the rest, I don't ridicule you for liking your minority neighbors. I frankly doubt you even have minority neighbors, or if you do that they are much like you describe.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I think it is hard to accurately speak for any of our neighbors. I have gay friends and black friends and while I would like the think that gives me some right to comment on something, but for all I know, they look at me and think privileged stupid white girl and smile and nod with everything I say. So, I think they agree with me on X, Y and Z, but in fact, they have just learned it is easier not to fight over stuff that won't matter.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:I think it is hard to accurately speak for any of our neighbors. I have gay friends and black friends and while I would like the think that gives me some right to comment on something, but for all I know, they look at me and think privileged stupid white girl and smile and nod with everything I say. So, I think they agree with me on X, Y and Z, but in fact, they have just learned it is easier not to fight over stuff that won't matter.
Well, yes, but you're not malanthrop. If you were, you could speak for your gay friends and your black friends - or even your gay, black friends, if you have any - with sure authority on political, social, and religious matters, and none could gainsay you.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Well, yes, but you're not malanthrop. If you were, you could speak for your gay friends and your black friends - or even your gay, black friends, if you have any - with sure authority on political, social, and religious matters, and none could gainsay you.
A very small sample of Malanthrop speaking on behalf of blacks and racial issues, which doesn't even include the worst of it by far:
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: I don't trust white people's eyewitness testimony against blacks. Sounds like something a lot of blacks would agree with. Just like they can say bling but I cannot, according to the white liberal. The white liberal is offended by my statement "against" blacks while the black nods his head. Who's out of touch? I see people, you see black people.
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Another great contribution to our nation of today's blacks. IE Elvis was negro music to the liberals of 50 years ago. Today, it's rock and roll.
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Their talent isn't shooting hoops or slinging drugs on the street corner. Unfortunately, growing up in the hood the drug dealer is your example of success. Unfortunately, rappers are the example of wealthy blacks. Without a hard working father, you follow the success you see where you live....the drug dealer. This isn't my argument. This is the argument of the African American community.
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Do you really believe that Colon Powell supported Obama for his policies? I am grateful for Obama for the same reasons Jessie Jackson is terrified......no more excuses. Believe me or not, the black guys I work with will not vote for Obama again. It wasn't about position, ideology, etc,...he was black.
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: 98% of African Americans give Obama a positive approval rating. At the same time, Obama has the lowest approval rating of any president in the history of the US during his first year......who is dumb as a post?
quote: I grew up in the north...I never understood "southern racism". Now, living in the south, I struggle to keep my kids from becoming racist through their own experience.
How old are you? Unless you're in your late 20s or mid 30s, your dichotomy there of northern and southern attitudes during your formative years is entirely removed from reality.
I'm 37. My mother told me, the first time I saw a black man, I was in Seattle and said, "look mom, an actor". I'd only seen them on tv before that point.
I never understood racism. I didn't live in a lily-white town. There were many hispanics, of course they tended to be migrants at that time.
All I'm saying is, my children are making up their own minds about southern blacks...in ways my wife and I don't really like. Both my children's best friends are black but with their childhood honestly....like saying..."look how fat she is"....they see who underperforms,is the most disruptive and disrespectful and who the bullies are. They aren't racist but they know percentages and ask me tough questions about the lopsidedness of bad kids and their skin color. These thoughts never occurred to me as a child. I just figured they didn't like the extreme cold where I lived.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote: I just figured they didn't like the extreme cold where I lived.
I just laughed out loud at work. I'm starting to think you're the best anonymous internet troll I've ever come across.
Posts: 1515 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Not a troll comment...the honest thought of a child. Like my kids blurting out about fat, smelly or ugly people and what they think about minority kids in their schools.
They haven't become adept at political correctness, yet. They don't know it's wrong to point out that most the misbehaving, underachieving, disrespectful bullies in their class are minorities.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Malanthrop, I need clarification. Are your children the minority in a minority school, meaning that what is generally considered to be the minority (blacks or hispanics or asians, etc.) are the majority in your school? If so, then wouldn't the most misbehaving, underachieving, disrespectful bullies in their class be minorities for the mere reason that they have the greater numbers?
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
There might be an equal number whites and hispanics but the school is over half black.
I see your point. If they went to an all white school, there would still be bullies and underachievers. Perhaps they aren't viewing it the way I described. Maybe they can tell the whites perform and behave better.
There is a clear distinction in the population of the town. The majority of the blacks live in government projects, conveniently surrounded by 15 foot tall concrete walls without a father in sight. Most the whites are middle to upper middle class.
My children do not attend the school nearest to where I live. We live in a working class diverse area. My kids go to school in a fairly wealthy area that has a very large set of projects on the edge of town. Looks like segregation to me - but it's benevolent welfare and government housing assistance.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: I think it is hard to accurately speak for any of our neighbors. I have gay friends and black friends and while I would like the think that gives me some right to comment on something, but for all I know, they look at me and think privileged stupid white girl and smile and nod with everything I say. So, I think they agree with me on X, Y and Z, but in fact, they have just learned it is easier not to fight over stuff that won't matter.
posted
I'm glad Ramadan is over....I can stop cutting my neighbors grass. I spent two of the last three months in Afghanistan, he prayed for me.
Of course, you all ridicule my Jamaican neighbor references,....you'll certainly find this one unbelievable.
Funny thing is, my Muslim neighbor from Morocco wont let his daughter play with the Jamaican's kids. Guess you have to draw the line somewhere, when it comes to the tolerance of the infidel.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
You know, for someone who makes over $100,000 a year, you live in a surprisingly diverse neighborhood with unusually bad schools.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I've been wondering how he fits all this interaction in with both kids and neighbors when he works two jobs for - what was it 60 or 80? - hours a week.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Funny thing is, my Muslim neighbor from Morocco wont let his daughter play with the Jamaican's kids. Guess you have to draw the line somewhere, when it comes to the tolerance of the infidel.
Where do you live, anyway, the Food Court at the mall?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: I've been wondering how he fits all this interaction in with both kids and neighbors when he works two jobs for - what was it 60 or 80? - hours a week.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You know, for someone who makes over $100,000 a year, you live in a surprisingly diverse neighborhood with unusually bad schools.
And don't forget that he embarrassingly used an anecdote about his taxation level which had nothing to do with how his supposed tax level would work.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You know, for someone who makes over $100,000 a year, you live in a surprisingly diverse neighborhood with unusually bad schools.
I dropped under that level by accepting a different job. I live in a house I bought when I made much less at the peak price. I almost make enough to cover two mortgages but not one in a better area.
My children's school isn't bad. Just because I said it was half black, you shouldn't assume it's a bad school. It's an A rated school. The nearly all white school on the other side of town got a B last year. That ruffled some feathers. Of course, these ratings are based on a curve...relative performance of the students compared against their own racial group. Blacks in our school do much better than they do in other schools.
If the grade was color blind, the richy rich white school would be higher ranked. I guess the government has higher expectations for whites.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
No, the schools grades are not graded that way. I can't think of one place where they are, actually. Could you show a link where it says that in your area? Honestly, I would be astounded if this was true.
BTW, racism would make your kids say that race is the REASON they are smelly, or ignorant, or rude. It is YOUR job (God help them) to explain that the color of their skin isn't the reason behind their actions, that other factors such as access to running water, poor parenting, or other factors could be why those kids, WHO HAPPEN TO BE BLACK, are the way they are, not simply because of their racial characteristics.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Barbour, who's now the governor of Mississippi and a possible contender for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012, recalls that time — when Ole Miss was being forced to integrate — as "a very pleasant experience."
Bailey does not. At times, she said, "I thought my life was going to end."
He's white. She was the first black female to attend.
Their seats were assigned alphabetically, and he said they developed a friendly rapport. She let him copy her notes when he skipped class.
"I still love her," he quipped.
He remembers her name almost as if it were yesterday, though he'd recalled her middle name as Lee. It's Ann.
She knows Barbour as a prominent politician who attended her alma mater. Until a reporter called, she said, she didn't realize they'd met.
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