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Author Topic: First 13. Intriguing or insipid?
djvdakota
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Sorry to confuse. My, aren't we just a little bothered by the birth thing? But let's go back, say, a thousand years. Ceserean section is unheard of. It would have guaranteed the death of the mother. But in similar cases with livestock, the mother would quite often have been cut open to at least preserve the life of the valuable newborn. But that just isn't something you did to a human--particularly not someone who was as important as her offspring. I've done some fine-tuning and I'm doubling the thirteen-line limit(berate me if you think it quite inappropriate and I will revoke them), hoping to provide a little more clarity. Thanks again for your many kind and critical comments. I value them all. And I am truly flattered that so much of your attention is going to my thirteen (Now twenty-six) little lines. So, no one liked the old beginning--"From the day of their birth the twins struggled against one another." Try this on for size:
(I just can't seem to get this edit thing right. Last try, I hope)


Twins. A sign of good luck. But Vadrian did not believe in luck--good or bad. For him there was only knowledge of the things God showed him, and faith that what God did not reveal was part of His grand design. But now--now as his queen lay dying in the Great Chamber above him, and his sons wailed over their urgent need to ease the pangs in their empty bellies, he wondered if it was true. True that God loved His children? True that He rewarded the faithful?

The firstborn had emerged from his mother’s womb and slipped serenely into the world--the birth easy,the midwife nearly missing him as she rushed into the room only moments before he appeared.

Vadrian had taken him from her, laughing and proud, as the still-wet child squirmed in his hands. He strutted with his heir to a nearby alcove and threw open the windows. The child’s eyes reflected the stars glimmering in the inky blanket of the heavens above him and his father lifted him for them to see, his lips whispering a prayer of gratitude, invoking a blessing of strength and nobility for his eldest, naming him--Alsvad. The Swift One.

But the other refused to be born. His mother lay in agony as he fought against her, her misery consuming her as the night passed, the hungry wails of the birthed son weakening with hers. Vadrian watched her suffer, holding him against her as her golden hair became darkened with sweat, her eyes frantic with pain and searching his for assurance. But he had none to give. For all his power, for all his authority, he could do nothing.

He anointed and blessed her over and over, desperately pleading for God to grant him the power to heal her, to loose his tongue so he could utter the words that would save her. But God would not grant it and Vadrian would not give up begging Him to change His mind.

The midwife worked feverishly, but in vain. And as the morning star rose over the hills, shining above the glowering red rim of dawn, Branwen’s soul tore itself from her body in a rush of expelled breath.
The child was cut from her body and given to his father. He held him, weeping bitterly, his tears washing his wife’s blood from the infant as he invoked yet another blessing upon this, his last son. Arvakar, he named him. Son of the Morning.


[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited April 30, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited May 01, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited May 02, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited May 02, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited May 02, 2004).]


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GZ
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I found it intriguing -- vivid language, setting up some sort of difference between the twins.
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Kolona
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Quite nice, really, djvdakota. I would read on. One suggestion: although it may be natural to name twins similar names, you might want to at least use different first letters for reading clarity's sake.
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kagome
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Ditto. I'm intrigued, too. I'd love to read more. *hint* kagome@tiscali.it *hint*

Anyway, I do agree that the names should start with a different first letter. If I'm not mistaken, it's a suggestion even Orson Scott Card gives in "Characters and Viewpoints" *hugs her lovely book*. Try to give them similar name, but with different starting letter. Alsvan and Ervakar?

[This message has been edited by kagome (edited April 26, 2004).]


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jpwriter
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Ditto, ditto. Is good. I too agree strongly with the names being clearly defined. Nothing is more irritating to me as a reader than trying to keep names straight in a story. Makes me long for Dick and Jane.
Jerry

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AeroB1033
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I don't know, part of me wants to chastise you for constantly using superfluous adjectives and unnecessary adverbs in an obtrusive and unneeded manner (yes, that was a jest), but then again you do have some nice description in there.

One thing I'd suggest is fixing the first sentence... it comes out very awkwardly, which is something you really don't want for the opening sentence of your story.

As for the twins' names, I think I have to disagree with the others if you're going in the direction I think you are. The older has a softer, more euphonous name, while the younger's name is much more cacaphonous. They're alike, but different, in the same way that their names are.


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TheoPhileo
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I really like it. I would definitely keep reading. Makes me think of Esau and Jacob, actually.
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Survivor
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Eh...a prologue?

You have an interesting setup here...but when I read "From the day of their birth" I instinctively feel like I'm coming in on the middle of the narrative, not the beginning.

And it marks the passage as narrative summary. As narrative summary goes, this is quite engaging. But it is the sort of thing that I write as background material, I wouldn't usually put this into a story.

There are some odd bits, too. The midwife rushing into the room only moments before Alsvad is born...I don't quite get that. If the birth were really easy, the child would be birthed before the midwife even got there, you know, like when serious contractions first began. For the midwife to be there at all, labor should have been going for a while anyway. If the midwife got there just in time to catch the baby, that would just be coincidence, not a sign of a particularly easy birth (a strong woman can do a very hard birth quite quickly, you know).

It's also quite odd that the father would choose to go look at his newborn son in starlight, for a couple of different reasons. For one, starlight isn't flattering. Firelight has a much more reassuring effect on human features. Also, it would be...not cozy. And the fact that these people live in a house at all and the father needs to open a window to the night suggests that in their culture, the "night" is considered somewhat dangerous.

Tolkien's elves might not mind exposing a new-born infant to the night sky, but one rather imagines them giving birth outside, or at least in an open setting.

Also, it is rather strange to suggest that the baby can really do much to impede the birth process...exactly how does a baby "fight" against being born? There's nothing to grasp in there, you know. You can't make your head bigger, and your arms and legs are totally weak. Unless you have a breech presentation, which is generally a good way to not get born alive, there is nothing a baby can effectively do to make a delivery harder.

All that said, you seem to have a hook here, most of the comments are very positive. I'll go with AeroB and say I didn't have a problem with the names.


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AeroB1033
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quote:
Also, it is rather strange to suggest that the baby can really do much to impede the birth process...exactly how does a baby "fight" against being born? There's nothing to grasp in there, you know. You can't make your head bigger, and your arms and legs are totally weak. Unless you have a breech presentation, which is generally a good way to not get born alive, there is nothing a baby can effectively do to make a delivery harder.

I can't resist nitpicking your nitpick, Survivor--though realistically you're probably right, a baby can't do a whole lot to keep from being born, it's a common thing to say that a baby just "couldn't wait to get out into the world" or "just wanted to stay in the warmth of his mother's womb" or other things like that, so I don't really think there's a problem with it being included in this piece.


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Survivor
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Yes, yes, okay.

It is common to say that...but we're also talking about the action being narrated, not just the way the narrator describes it. And if one baby came out soooo easily, there would have to be a medical reason for the other baby to not come out.


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danquixote
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My shoulder got caught on my mother's pelvic bone. I eventually had to be taken C-section. Granted, part of the problem was the fact that my mom had MD, and didn't have the strength to push, but it's not inconceivable that something similar could happen.

And if these are exceptional children - perhaps he could "engineer" difficulty for the mother.

I really enjoyed these lines, too. The only nitpick I have is that your first line says they "struggled with one another," you don't show that in the rest of the paragraph. You show how their different, (I also thought about Jacob and Esau) but I only see one twin, Arvakar struggling - and it's with his mother. As the paragraph stands, I'd think something along the lines of "From the day of their birth, the twins were as different as ... um ... Jacob and Esau."

Or something.

If the struggling with each other is important, perhaps you could mention their fighting in the womb, or something.

In all, a very nice beginning.


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danquixote
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-- d*@m --

That's the second time today I've accidentally double posted.

My apologies.

[This message has been edited by danquixote (edited April 27, 2004).]


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Survivor
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Yeah, but did you have a twin that came out very easily?

Look, I'm obviously the only one that thinks there is anything even slightly hinky about this. Fine, I rest my case, and DJ can decide whether there is a problem.

Keep in mind, though, that I'm invariably right


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djvdakota
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To put the birth questions to rest, I am a mother and have given birth to three children--all natural (no meds), two with midwives. My sister IS a lay midwife. She has read the passage and has no trouble with those nitpicky details. I can say, with some credibility, that I have a considerable amount of knowledge concerning the birth process. That said, point one, the birth of Alsvad being easy and the midwife coming just as he is delivered--happens all the time. Second point, Arvakar struggling against his mother, also plausible. An infant is quite capable of positioning itself in the mother's womb to enable an easier birth. My own daughter did it for the entire six hours of labor. She was so tired by the time she was born she slept for more than half a day before she would wake up enough to nurse. This being the case, it is also entirely plausible for an infant to position itself to inhibit birth.

Thank you for the comments and suggestions. I cannot tell you how greatly I value your input.


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Survivor
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Okay, now I'm actually kinda curious. Has your sister ever heard of one twin coming out remarkably easily and the other not coming out for a really long time? Because I can't recall any examples (not that I would necessarily know about any).
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Doug_khs
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On the topic of the twin thing. We have twins. The first one was ready to come, no problems, the second one was breach. Doc knew she wasn't coming so he decided to go in after them both. We're glad he did since she had the cord wrapped around her neck and was lodged in there pretty good. Doc had to get up on the table and was in my wife up past his elbows pulling the little girl out. Everything turned out okay. Two healthy kids tearing up my house now.
Doug

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Survivor
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That's "breech" as in "britches first".

Since an experienced midwife probably could handle a breech presentation with a little elbow...er, right. Anyway, I think you should just make that change.


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Gen
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Before reading the comments, I also thought of the Jacob and Esau parallel. It's a great set up-- the twins, struggling, etcetra... On the name question, I think I'm torn, I know but with names I'm not used to seeing, I definitely skip over the name mentally and recognize it by the first syllable or letter. If you tried something like Aelsvad and Ervakar, maybe, so the first letter was different but the sound was still similar-- the a's in Ar and Al are already produced somewhat differently.

For what it's worth, the impression I'm getting is that this is a prologue or prologue cleverly disguised as a first chapter so people won't skip it, and the narrative will move to the twins in young adulthood or growing up. I'm trying to think of something else useful to say, but not finding it. I like this. It's well written. (And I'd point out that we don't know there's an experienced midwife, or if they have a ban against interferring with the natural process of childbirth, or that they have some kind of cultural taboo against that kind of position adjustment. And there are probably cases where those adjustments would be impossible, although I'm not positive.)

[This message has been edited by Gen (edited April 29, 2004).]


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Survivor
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Why on Earth would you even have a midwife if she wasn't allowed to help?
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Gen
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Help care for the children after birth. Make sure the kid doesn't fall on the floor. (And yes, I know she might then better be called a nurse, and I'm not going there. I was just pointing out that there are reasons why adjusting the child's position might not be allowed, known of, or possible.)
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Survivor
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Uh...okay. But in that case a breech baby is a dead baby, and that's not good for the story.
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cgamble
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unless the entire story is about the birth, why did you spend the first 13 lines talking about it?

i just feel as though i got the point after the first two or three, and only stayed on for the rest because i forced myself.

of course this is the pot calling the kettle black as i do the same thing all the time...


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Lullaby Lady
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I'm a mother of 7. (No, that is not a typo...) I had 4 with midwives.

Sorry, Survivor-- normally I say ditto to all your comments, but I've got to disagree this time! Some babies just don't want to go down that birth canal-- and sometimes it's because the cord is wrapped multiple times around its neck.

One funny side note to the author-- I found myself becoming distracted during this birth scene, because I wanted to tell the mother to change her position, or get in the tub or SOMETHING! But I believe that has to do with the reason I can't watch TLC's "A Baby Story"-- I've done it myself too much to be a spectator!

BTW-- I really enjoyed reading this. Your phrasing was masterful. But I do agree that the first line is a bit awkward. And I. too, like the names beginning with the same letter. Lots of twins are named similarly.

Okay, buh-bye now,

(And she slinks back to lurkdom...)

~L.L.


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cgamble
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The 13 line limit is a bit painful to deal with. My thoughts on the excerpt are completely changed on this as i read a bit further.

the new lines are much more enticing, enough that i've already started guessig at what the story could be about.

that said, i usually skip the first paragraph or two of every book i read anyway...


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RillSoji
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Without reading anyone else's replies I thought it was wonderful. I was pulled in very quickly.

*looks at other replies*

And I don't think the names would be a problem but this comes from a humble, unpublished, (heck, I haven't even finished a book yet! ) writer. Just as long as you make sure you keep their differences very apparent. Try not to use their names in one sentence too much.

Awesome beginning. Keep it up


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djvdakota
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Thanks again for the wonderful help. I am, or will be when I'm done here, working on that first line.

FYI: I began this book (it is complete in its first draft) with a page of scribbled notes that I took while searching twin myths on the internet. There are two basic kinds of twin myths: one is the hero twin myth, in which the twins are fighting with each other in opposition to evil (or in one case good). One twin is always the stronger and the weaker almost always dies. The other, and less common, is the twin myth in which the two are pitted against one another. In my religious beliefs, the "twins" are Christ and Lucifer. They are both sons of God the Father, they were both very equal in power, authority, influence in the world before this one (before the fall of Lucifer). I decided I wanted to name my twins after some twins from myth. Romulus and Remus--too familiar. Hunahpu and Xbalanque--too difficult to get the English-speaking tongue around (that one's Mayan, by the way). So, just for the like-ability of the name's sake, I chose Alsvid and Arvakr (actual translations, All Swift and Early Waker), the twin horses of the Norse sun goddess. Most of the others I considered also start with same-letters.

And to Lullaby Lady: My sis, the midwife, has 7 also. 6 with midwives, one born in the tub. And I tell you, when I watch birth shows I find myself cheering the mother on as she pushes. Out loud!


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djvdakota
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OK. How's this for a new beginning. Cut out "From the day of their birth the twins struggled with one another." Insert:

Twins. A sign of luck. But Vadrian did not believe in luck--good or bad. For him there was only knowledge of the things God showed him, and faith that what God did not show was part of His grand design. But now... Now, as his Queen lay dead in the Great Chamber above him, and his sons wailed over their urgent need to ease the pangs of hunger in their empty bellies, he wondered if it was true. True that God loved his children? True that he rewarded his faithful?

(New paragraph begins with: "The firstborn had emerged...) Other edits made.


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Survivor
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Ah, that addition to the text makes my objections irrelevant...well, the objection that there would have to be a serious medical problem with the second delivery. Since obviously there is a serious medical problem. I was kinda working under the assumption that the baby was born in more or less the normal manner.

So really, it is mostly just the now total superfluidity of the midwife and the bit about opening the window to view a new-born by starlight. And both of those are simply odd.

I stick on the "From the day of their birth..." comment. In fact, given the complete discrepancy in narrative tone between that first paragraph and the rest of the text, I amplify it. Viewing the passage as plot summary, it is very uneven in detail and scale. And if it isn't plot summary, it shouldn't begin with that opening paragraph.


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