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Author Topic: At The End of All Things [Fantasy Novel]
Adam Pettry
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Here is the most recent rough draft of the first novel in a series I have been working on. Any suggestions are more than welcome, but anything unneccissarily harsh is not appreciated.

If you want to, or are willing to read more, feel free to send me an email, or leave a comment here for me to send you the first 20 [rough draft] pages.

Thanks!

Prologue

Washed upon the rocky shore, broken and bleeding was the little boy who would one day hold the future of this world in his hands…
* * *
A good first line for a good story. Well, no, this is not necessarily a good story because many bad things happen in it, but I must tell it at any rate. I hate that I have waited so long to write this all down, not only because it is difficult with my spidery hands, but because it seems that some of the details have been blurred, like ink on wet paper. Now, even though this happened a long time, and my body may be in disrepair, don’t even begin to think that I am a senile old maid! My mind is still as sharp as ever, and I remember this story well enough to retell it.


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Matt Lust
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Firstly the beginning sounds a lot like Treasure Island.


Also I would read the first two sentences of the prologue and then skip it. I don't care that the POV character is retelling the story when he's 131.

I care about reading your story, I bought/am pondering buying it. Thus always start where the action is.

I'm not hooked.



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Adam Pettry
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I actually agree. So, I cut the 'boring' bit, and just got on to the story. Hopefully this is better.


Prologue

Washed upon the rocky shore, broken and bleeding was the little boy who would one day hold the future of this world in his hands…
His mind swam between consciousness and darkness; images of the past swirled haphazardly through his mind. The revelation that he was a half breed, the murder of his mother, and his capture. Vague images of being stripped and beaten while tied to the mast of the ship danced between imagination and reality. He remembered the betrayed look of his friend whose name he could no longer recall from the railing of the sea vessel. The cold salty water... waves just crashing over his head, filling his lungs with water, carrying his last hope into darkness.

[This message has been edited by Adam Pettry (edited July 08, 2007).]


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Matt Lust
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Well this prologue is better but still a little awkward.

Firstly, why all the ellipsis?

Also you're info dumping on the reader but that I suppose is what prologues are for. Still I find the rapid fire list of past events to be slightly annoying.


To more specific concerns:
Half-Breed? With what? An Elf/Fairy/Demon/African-American?

Why was he/his family the center of a plot to kill his mother and capture him?

What exactly is the cause of all the betrayal?

All this past experience stuff is cheating the reader. If you're going to give a summary give a complete one don't leave us one with major plot holes.

I know this is fantasy but Fantasy the genre is huge and all the holes you've left leave the reader leaves them bailing out the titanic with a sieve.

You've given us the framework to a basic little boy grows up and saves the world story but I still don't care enough to read on.


Get to the action.


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Adam Pettry
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I guess I am just fighting old drafts right now. The info dump I have realized, is no longer pertinent [I cut a character, and therefore a subplot that the 'betrayal' info was for].

I just guess that I am also fighting the fact that in past drafts, I jumped into the action too quickly with too much of an info dump therefore leaving the reader overwhelmed. I am just unsure of how to make this better. This is a story in which there is a lot of information that must be told before the REAL action can begin. I have played around with structure to shift as much info around to avoid a horrible info dump, but yet allow the plot to move onward.

Even though this breaks the rules a little, after some editting, and rewriting, I am just going to paste the entire prologue [only like 20-25 lines of text afterall]. Seeing as how there is going to be a LOT more text after this, I am not too worried about electronic rights.

______________________________________
Washed upon the rocky shore, broken and bleeding was the little boy who would one day hold the future of this world in his hands.
His mind swam between consciousness and darkness; images of the past swirled haphazardly through his mind. Vague images of being stripped and beaten while tied to the mast of the ship danced between imagination and reality. The cold salty waves just crashed over his head, filling his lungs with water, carrying his last hope into darkness.
He opened his eyes, and shut them, fearing both shadow and light. He shivered uncontrollably. The brisk sea gale sliced through the thin, sparse rags that hardly clung to his thin frame. Windburn began to redden his almost bare body.


[This message has been edited by Adam Pettry (edited July 08, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Adam Pettry (edited July 08, 2007).]


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Matt Lust
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Doesn't matter KDW will lay the smack down if you don't edit down to 13 yourself.



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Adam Pettry
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Now it is 13.
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Matt Lust
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Now the rescue by a wizard thing is irksome. In part because this is a prologue and I think prologues are just really poor ways of building back story. I also feel that at this point the only way you could not start this story with a cliche is by cutting the prologue completely.


Start with the POV/Main character fully conscious and aware that he's not in kansas anymore.

For a good example of someone who did this well take a look at Lynn Flewelling's book "Luck in the shadows." Her opening scene9(s) is set in a jail with one MC rescusing the other and was borderline cliche (I almost stopped reading) but somehow she managed to keep the tone serious and I didn't feel farced.


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Adam Pettry
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Hmmm.... okay... I too had considered cutting the prologue, and just starting with chapter one. If I wont get in trouble, I will just post the 1st 13 lines of Chapter one, and get opinions on which of the two people think is a better opening.

My only problem with this being the opening is that it feels very un-original whereas the plot is very different from this beginning. But, I am in the tight spot of having to introduce this place early so that other sub-plots will have a foundation. The main plot of this however, does not at all involve the 'school' in a major fashion.

If I will get in trouble, just let me know.


Chapter One

Aiden awoke as the sun peeped its brilliant head above the forest in the distance. He could see the first rays of light stretch their arms towards the fleeing darkness. He got up, and quietly crossed the room. He wanted to be sure not to wake his roommate, particularly because he along with the rest of the student body had gotten back from their spring break just last night. Aiden hadn’t gone anywhere for his break, but instead stayed at the castle to work. You see, that was the deal that Aiden had with the Headmaster.
He lived here at the castle, and in exchange for free schooling, he was a stable boy for the castle.


This is rather rough though... but opinions are welcome on my "word vomit".

[This message has been edited by Adam Pettry (edited July 08, 2007).]


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Matt Lust
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Still too much stuff that doesn't make sense.

You might be better off with one or two lines of narration then some dialog.

I've bashed dialog openings here but I suppose what I mean is dialog without physical setting/backstory/cultural clues.

quote:
Aiden awoke as the sun peeped its brilliant head above the forest in the distance. He could see the first rays of light stretch their arms towards the fleeing darkness. He hastily dressed and quietly crossed the room.

That's about all the narration you need. Also, I changed one bit in bold because I can't assume your character's dressed if he just got up but I can assume he's up if he got dressed.

Now start from here with dialog.
Maybe something like

"What are you doing up so early?" said a low voice from the other bed.

"Unlike you Godfrey I didn't get to party last night," Aiden whispered. "Some of us have to go muck out the stables."


Dialog like this gives the reader important clues about who Aiden is and what his role is in this place.

Dialog that doesn't work for me at the beginning is stuff like

"Why you did you _______?" said Jimmy
"Because I felt it was the right" said Timmy
"That's not right, that's stupid." said Jimmy

There are countless examples of dialog where the author knows the motovations of the characters but the reader is whistling dixie.

Dialog like this with no knowledge of who the characters are or what the society's like leaves the reader with holes they have to fill in themselves or trust you to *hopefully* fill them in later. Personally I lose trust in authors who can't read their own story well enough (or beg/plead/pay someone else to read) to say hey that doesn't make sense.


Edit for spelling

[This message has been edited by Matt Lust (edited July 08, 2007).]


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Adam Pettry
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I will keep that in mind. I just have to keep telling myself that this is only my rough draft. I want to get at least halfway through the book before I go back and start "micro managing."

I know that if I work too hard on the beginning right now, I will get too caught up in polishing what I have now. Thus, I will never finish.

But I definately see where you are coming from, and I do like the idea of a little bit of dialog at the immediate beginning. However, if I do use that idea, I need to be careful so that readers don't think his roommate is an important character. I just hope that tomorrow some others chime in on this. I can definately tell however, that I am rusty from a year of writer's block. But, that isn't an excuse. It is just me saying that I see what is being said, and I need to get back in shape and clean this mess up.


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Matt Lust
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well best wishes. I'll be around tomorrow.
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Adam Pettry
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Thanks for your input so far! I have been looking for unbiased opinions for a while, and I am glad I found this board.
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kings_falcon
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We're glad you found us too.


I could be hooked but I'm not there yet.

This still feels info dumpy and a bit like Harry Potter. Here's what I mean:

" . . .because he along with the rest of the student body had gotten back from their spring break just last night. Aiden hadn’t gone anywhere for his break, but instead stayed at the castle to work. You see, that was the deal that Aiden had with the Headmaster.
He lived here at the castle, and in exchange for free schooling, he was a stable boy for the castle."

First, he "along with the rest" is telling me about a past event and then you contradict it by saying Aiden hadn't left for break.

The "You see, the deal. . " is info dump. It also is a full Omni narrator, which if that was what you were trying to do was good. If not, it violates the POV, which until that point seemed to be Aidens'. Also "the deal" is very modern sounding which may or may not fit the story.


Where does the story start? Probably after this point. Maybe something happens at the stables?

My point is most of the information in the 13 can be given to the reader better in the dialog or in a scene that matters. Is he teased about working at the barn? I suspect so.

Unless there is a critical reason to start with him waking up, don't. Avoid that cliche where possible.

Good luck.



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Adam Pettry
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Thanks. I understand what you mean about it sounding like H.P. but... I am in a situation where I have to have this place introduced, even though it isn't absolutely critical to the plot. I just dont know exactly how to explain that this isn't so much a school, but rather a University, and it serves as the final step in becoming a Master of his/her craft. Very few people ever achieve the level of power required to be qualified for entry, much less make the cut for admittance. I am starting to think of it more as a Headquarters of Magical Mastery rather than a school whatsoever.

I just need to juggle things around a bit in the beginning, particularly because the central plot has little to do with this place. It just serves as a point of guidance and support to the characters.


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Adam Pettry
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Okay. A new take on this. Even though I have been warned against prologues, I am not sure if this will be a prologue, or the beginning of the new chapter one. I took the advice of 'get to the action', but in order to do so effectively without too much of an 'info dump' I had to back up rather than move forward. The action seen in this, is the catalyst of the central plot. There was one draft a long time ago that was this event, but from the perspective of the thief. However, after restructuring, that character was not really important for anything else.


Beginning....again ::sigh::


A dagger flew across the room, shattering a polished mirror on the far wall.
The Grand Master was furious to say the least. He hadn’t been angry enough to be violent in decades.
How could this happen?
A thief had stolen from his castle in the night. This castle, the Headquarters of Magical Mastery was supposed to have been the safe haven for the most potent source of Magic in the entire world. It was a sword they had taken. It wasn’t just an ordinary sword whatsoever, but in fact the artifact that this castle guarded. This sword, and the contents of it’s hilt had created this world, and many others. If in the wrong hands, this weapon could wreak unimaginable havoc.

[This message has been edited by Adam Pettry (edited July 09, 2007).]


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Gibran
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First of all, I don't see why you change your story to fit the need of everybody's reply. I think those changes must come gradually, so that you don't just shoot off a whole new view of the story because someone pointed out the mistakes in the form.

Look at what you have done: The story began as third person, with someone about to tell a story (in a most Lemony Snicket style), and now you are directly telling it. You changed it from a prologue to Chapter 1 because somebody thought prologues were a feeble way to build backstory.

You must consider all replies and make changes. If you keep such sudden changes, you will be overwhelmed. You might just end up telling a story you did not want to tell.

From prologue to Chapter One, from shipwreck to a happily walking boy. Think.

But, to your story, I have no more thoughts for now.


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WouldBe
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I'm guilty of sprinkling "very" and long phrases that mean "very" thoughout my writing. I eventually do a search of the manuscript and delete most. I just can't help myself and sprinkle "just" everywhere and have to whack that meaningless word, too.

The Grand Master was furious [to say the least. He hadn’t been angry enough to be violent in decades.
How could this happen?]

The bracketed part means "very"...very furious. But "furious" is powerful word and needs no intensification, so consider omitting or simplifying the bracketed part.

A thief had stolen from his castle in the night [. This castle, the Headquarters of Magical Mastery was supposed to have been the safe haven for the most potent source of Magic in the entire world. It was] a sword [they had taken. It wasn’t just an ordinary sword whatsoever, but in fact the artifact that this castle guarded. This sword,] and the contents of it’s hilt <that> had created this world, and many others. If in the wrong hands, this weapon could wreak unimaginable havoc.

It seems that the purpose of this paragraph is to show the humiliation of the Grand Master and his castle and the scope of the loss. "Humiliation" is a powerful word, too.

A thief had stolen from his castle in the night. The Grand Master was furious and bent over with humiliation that his long-safe castle, the guardian of the sword, was violated. The sword [and the contents of its hilt] created this world and many others, and what it had done, it could undo.

I bracketed "and the contents of its hilt" because I doubt that detail is needed in the first 13. Something like this leaves room to tell more about the GM or what will be done about the theft.

Good luck. Gibran makes a good point, too.


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Adam Pettry
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Very good point Gibran. I haven't tossed out all of the other openings, but rather am using the feedback to jumpstart as many different perspectives on the opening as possible. The plot, and the details thereof are very set in stone. My characters are very 3D. I am just trying to get as many starts that I can, then build off of the one I like most.

So, I do acknowledge that all of this feedback is very valid, but I am also taking everything with salt. For the time being, I am simply enjoying rewriting the opening. Afterall, the opening to me has been rather stagnant for some time, and the change is very refreshing.

And also, even though it seems trivial detail for now, the "contents of the hilt" is actually the most critical part of the plot. So, I was very careful to make sure I mentioned it.

[This message has been edited by Adam Pettry (edited July 09, 2007).]


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wrenbird
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I suggest that you finish your first draft before "perfecting" the beginning.
I myself have fallen victim to over-revising my beginning because I wanted to get it just right. The trouble is, you can become completely bogged down that way. Write the whole first draft. Understand the story that you really want to tell, and by the end you will know the truly perfect beginning for your novel.
Good Luck.

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InarticulateBabbler
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My take:

quote:

A dagger flew across the room[and shattered] a polished mirror on the far wall.
[The Grand Master [of the Headquarters of Magical Mastery] was furious[,] to say the least.<--Whose PoV is this?] He hadn’t been angry enough to be violent in decades.
How could this happen?
A thief had stolen from his castle in the night. This castle, the [Headquarters of Magical Mastery <--does sound like a school]was supposed to have been the safe haven for the most potent source of Magic in the entire world.This is a little indirect It was a sword they had taken. It wasn’t just an ordinary sword whatsoever, but in fact the artifact that this castle guarded. This sword, and the contents of it’s hilt had created this world, and many others. If in the wrong hands, this weapon could wreak unimaginable havoc.[<-- This all could be simplified: A thief had stolen the sword of [name], which held the world's most potent source of magic in its hilt. That magic had created the world, and many others.]

I need to know who is watching Grand Master What's-his-name throw the fit? Who is telling the story?]


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Matt Lust
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IB's right


Also in terms of what wrenbrid said I'd suggest that you at least out line it.


When I begin (and I begin too often ) to write a story I find it very helpful to plot out/outline everything in three parts

Introduction

Conflict

Resolution


From there I add in scenes as I think about them and try to locate them in some where under the three parts.

All stories need an introduction, all stories need conflict and most stories need resolution.

The exact size of each will vary, just write the story how it needs to be told but realize that unless you force the story to end how you desire, the story will never be more than a meandering path.

Sometimes that path takes you home, sometimes it gets you lost.

Having a map and following it makes the journey of writing a bit more satsifactory.


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sleepn247
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Of all the openings you've written so far, the one that intrigues me the most is the last one, but because of the sword.

One weakness I see is that none of your openings really got me introduced to a character I really cared about. Unless you're making the sword into a character. That might be pretty cool.

Plot, info, world-building, setting, artifacts, symbols are all great, but for me, without a character to care about shown early on, I lose interest fast.


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Adam Pettry
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Thanks for all of the advice. I do infact have the entire story developed, bit by bit, event by event. I have spent a long time developing this, but havent found a satisfactory point in these character's lives to start. So while it seems that I am jumping around and the story is changing a lot, it in fact isnt changing at all. The first 'beginning' takes place after the bulk of the story. That character is reflecting on the story. The second 'beginning' starts when the story itself is finally getting under way, but not so far into it that there is no introduction. The third [and last] beginning is many years before the real opening of the story. The third opening is the catalyst of the entire work. I guess the reason it seems so different, is that the initial glance at the characters is reflecting the changes that they undergo through the story.

I do have this entire thing written out in a sort of 'timeline' flow chart. I have a very clear idea of where the characters are taking the story, and how they get there. My problem has just been finding the appropriate beginning.

For now, I like the last beginning, and will probably make it a very short first chapter, or a prologue. Even though what I have written thus far in that bit isnt that great, I have already woven in several important aspects of the story in what is presented. I think I will just.... "dehydrate" what I have so that it is more clear, less wordy, and accomplishes more in less time.


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