Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Books » Another Query: Dangerous Knowledge

   
Author Topic: Another Query: Dangerous Knowledge
jdt
Member
Member # 3889

 - posted      Profile for jdt   Email jdt         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, formerly Dangerous Knowledge. Since I started on the novel, someone else published a non-fiction book by that name. But that's another topic.

Here's the hook:

Michael Patriate is a corporate deal-maker who has traded love for success. When he is somehow taken to Renaissance Italy, he must make his way from scratch and once more face the choices he's made. Michael is attacked outside his Manhattan office at midnight and finds himself dumped in a place not far from Venice, where the people think it’s 1492. Michael meets Rizzo, the merchant who gives him a job, and Cecile, who provides him a room—and maybe more.

As Michael tries to make sense of the unbelievable, circumstances and historical characters conspire to set Michael on a course for confrontation. The usurping duke of Milan, the reformist preacher in Florence, the aggrandizing doge of Venice—each does his unintended part to initiate the war that will lead Italy toward disaster.

Michael finds status among fellow merchants and love with Cecile. But he may choose to abandon them all in pursuit of greater achievements. As Michael aims for the top, he catches the attention of the doge of Venice, who is stung by the war he helped start. Michael must choose between using his knowledge responsibly or endangering society for his own gain.

All thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe


Posts: 57 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a little confused by this, but I'll give a go at straightening it out a bit:

Michael Patriate made his choice: money over love. But, when a midnight whack to the back of Michael's head ended his rise in the Manhattan corporate world, his whole world changed.

He woke up in 1492. He found some semblence of normality through Rizzo, who employed him, and Cecile who gave him a room and reawakened his passion. While learns about his new life, the Duke of Milan and the Doge of Venice initiate a war that will leave Italy in ruins. Michael's knowledge can save Italy or make him wealthy. Now Michael must again make his choice: love or money?

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited May 16, 2007).]


Posts: 3687 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DebbieKW
Member
Member # 5058

 - posted      Profile for DebbieKW   Email DebbieKW         Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, I found this a little confusing, too. Mainly because I wasn't clear about the sequence of events and the 'how?' of several things you mentioned.

quote:
Michael Patriate is a corporate deal-maker who has traded love for success. When he is somehow taken to Renaissance Italy, he must make his way from scratch and once more face the choices he's made.[I'd suggest making this a new paragraph since the above was an overview and the below is starting from the beginning again. If the book explains how he was transported back in time and across the ocean, then it would be nice if you briefly explained that here.] Michael is attacked outside his Manhattan office at midnight and finds himself dumped in a place not far from Venice, where the people think it’s 1492.[Do they just think it is 1492 or is it really 1492?] Michael meets Rizzo, the merchant who gives him a job, and Cecile, who provides him a room—and maybe more.

As Michael tries to make sense of the unbelievable, circumstances and historical characters conspire to set Michael on a course for confrontation. The usurping duke of Milan, the reformist preacher in Florence, the aggrandizing doge of Venice—each does his unintended part to initiate the war that will lead Italy toward disaster.[What disaster? Be specific about the stakes. Also, are these three separate characters? I didn't get that the first time around. Also, is there only one reformist preacher in Florence--as in, shouldn't you say, 'a reformist preacher'? Since you don't mention anyone but the doge later in the query, you might even consider dropping the other two or lumping them together in this reference. Actually, the whole "The usurping...disaster" sentence could be dropped as it's writen now.]

Michael finds status among fellow merchants and love with Cecile. But he may choose to abandon them all in pursuit of greater achievements.[Why? He doesn't sound like a very likable character if he keeps dumping people who are nice to him in order to make money or achieve fame.] As Michael aims for the top, he catches the attention of the doge of Venice, who is stung by the war he helped start.[Oh! So the war is in full swing, now? I thought it was in the lead-up and initial phases while Michael was settling into his job and new love.] Michael must choose between using his knowledge responsibly or endangering society for his own gain.[Just how would he use his knowledge responsibly versus just how would he use his knowledge in a way that would endanger society? Be more specific since this choice is the Big Stakes that is meant to catch our attention.]


I know how hard it is to write a query letter let alone understand the advice everyone else is giving. I hope my comments were more helpful than confusing.


Posts: 357 | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jdt
Member
Member # 3889

 - posted      Profile for jdt   Email jdt         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the replies. It helps to know what's not clear.

Joe


Posts: 57 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wrenbird
Member
Member # 3245

 - posted      Profile for wrenbird   Email wrenbird         Edit/Delete Post 
I really enjoyed InarticulateBabbler's version. It very successfully shortened the story summary, and made it seem more interesting actually. I got a bit confused when I read the original, but IB's version was really clear. And I was like, "Oh, hey, that is a pretty cool story idea."
So, I guess what I'm saying is, I'd want to read your story, if I read InarticulateBabbler's summary on the back cover.

Posts: 346 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jdt
Member
Member # 3889

 - posted      Profile for jdt   Email jdt         Edit/Delete Post 
Here's one more shot:

Michael Patriate is an investment banker hot on the trail of another deal. But a midnight attack on a Manhattan street changes everything. Michael finds himself dumped into a primitive countryside where the people think they are in fifteenth century Italy. And, impossibly, they seem to be right. Michael starts from scratch and before long is back at the top of his game, using the knowledge he carried from the future to his advantage. But success comes at a price. Again.

Local businessmen give Michael a chance. Cecile gives him a room and her heart. But he catches the eye of a Venetian merchant who wants to hire Michael for his special business expertise. And the doge of Venice, who started a war that may engulf all of Italy, desires Michael’s understanding of advanced technology. Michael is torn. Will he turn his back on friends and love? Will he act to enrich himself at any cost? Michael must choose between using his knowledge responsibly or disrupting society for his own gain.


Posts: 57 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ZellieBerraine
Member
Member # 5492

 - posted      Profile for ZellieBerraine           Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I'd avoid catch-phrases like "hot on the trail" "starts from scratch" "top of his game" and "changes everything" and replace them with something more solid and unique. (Also "everything" is rather broad does it change how the trees grow, what food he eats, how he breathes, etc)

I like "dumped into a primitive countryside" - dumped is a nice strong word to use there

"And, impossibly" you don't really need to use "and" there.

And the doge -- I was always told 'never NEVER start a sentence with 'and' ' you also don't really need it, the sentence stands fine on its own.

I really like the questions at the end and the idea that he's tempted to use his knowledge for personal gain--shows that your character isn't the Too Perfect Hero.


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kings_falcon
Member
Member # 3261

 - posted      Profile for kings_falcon   Email kings_falcon         Edit/Delete Post 
It's clearer but not compelling for me. I think that's because the love/money choice gets shifted to a subplot. What genre are you? Fantasy? Fantasy romance? You have time travel, history (or possibly revisionary history) and a romance. Where do you fit on the shelf? Once you answer that you should punch up those elements in the story.

Also, if you raise a question make sure you at least hint at the answer.

If you combine the informaiton from two versions, it might work better.

quote:
Michael Patriate, a powerhouse investment banker, never wondered about the life he would have lived had he not abandoned his high school sweetheart at the alter in favor of his career until a midnight attack on a Manhattan street changes everything. Michael recovers conciousness and finds himself dumped in a primitive countryside reminscient of fifteenth century Italy. Impossibly, it just might be. Even though high finances are non-existent, his board room skills and knowledge of the future allow him to become a sucessful merchant. But is he acquire sucess at the cost of empty life, again?

Cecile (Give a one or two word description of her - is she a widow? An orphan? What?) leases a room to Michael. Despite the centuries of experience between them, Michael is drawn to her. Rizzo, a Venetian merchant, wants Michael's business savy, and the doge of Venice desires to exploit Michael’s understanding technology. Cecile (Tell me her thoughts/position on this mess). If Michael accepts the Doge's offer, he'll once again attain sucess but lose what is beginning to mean more to him. If he doesn't the Doge will have him assasignated and the Italy he knows will be forever altered by war.


Clearly it's not even close to perfect but now I know the players and the stakes.

Just questions I had when reading - what makes the countryside "primative?" I live in the country and commute to DC on a daily basis. What would make a NYer consider it primative in a way different than were I live. The NYers I know consider DC primative because you can't order pizza at 3 am and have it delivered.

If the choice is Cecile or a war that destroys his history time line, I suspect Cecile isn't going to do well in that contest. If so, you're not in the Romance genre.

IB's cuts on the last version were also excellent suggestions.



Posts: 1210 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jdt
Member
Member # 3889

 - posted      Profile for jdt   Email jdt         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the help. I think the hook and query letter are harder than writing the story.

Genre? That's another tough one for me. I read something the other day that many new writers cross genres in their first work. I'm probably guilty of that.

The story line is that the MC is a successful businesman who wakes up in 1492 and interacts with historical and fictional characters. He is successful here in several steps, but he leaves people in his wake, including Cecile, the love interest. After he reaches his zenith and loses an ethical battle with himself, he wakes up in a modern hospital. But, he's learned Italian and knows the experience was real. Now he realizes he messed up again and calls the ex-wife he ignored the first time around.

Not sure where that falls on the bookshelf. I am going to a conference, though, in a couple of weeks where one of the sessions deals with genre. Maybe get it sorted out there.

Zellie, you're right on those "ands." BUT (just wanted to do that) I went to meeting a couple of months ago where the speaker was a guy named Brian Garner. He has, I think, 18 books in print on legal writing (briefs, etc.). He showed several business magazines and newspaper editorial pages where he had circled the sentences begining with "and" or "but." Lots of marks. He says--especially in persuasive writing--that something like 10% of your sentences should begin that way. His comment was that we all learned the rule never to begin a sentence with and or but because our third grade teachers couldn't explain the nuances to a bunch of 8 year-olds. For what it's worth.


Back to work.

[This message has been edited by jdt (edited May 22, 2007).]


Posts: 57 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ZellieBerraine
Member
Member # 5492

 - posted      Profile for ZellieBerraine           Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting! I understand starting with But/though/yet/etc, but "and" always comes off to me as indecisive...like the writer doesn't know where one sentence should end and the other should begin. I consider the "and" kind of an understood. That if two sentences are in a paragraph together, the reader already knows they're linked so it's unnecessary to use a word to link them.
Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jdt
Member
Member # 3889

 - posted      Profile for jdt   Email jdt         Edit/Delete Post 
But I use them more than I should. And I suspect the practice can be overdone.

[This message has been edited by jdt (edited May 23, 2007).]


Posts: 57 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have a problem with sentences starting with And, But, or Because IF they are complete sentences when they're finished. Because -- to articulate further -- I would accept as the first word of dialogue, or answering one's own question in 1st person.
Posts: 3687 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2