posted
Hi Everyone, and welcome to September's Ready for Market challenge.
The first step is this:
Please post your first thirteen in this thread by September 7th, using the following format:
Title: Word count: Genre: First thirteen:
Please do not post anything else in this thread. For discussions and questions, and to see how this group works, please use the ‘Open Discussions’ thread entitled “Ready for Market--September”.
I’ll post instructions in this thread as and when necessary. In seven days I will add a post which closes first thirteens, and invites contributors to grade first thirteens and request manuscripts for detailed grading.
For reference here’s the overall monthly cycle:
On the 1st day of the month everyone is invited to post first 13s.
We give ourselves one week to do that. This is not time for writing since the stories should be ready for market, but just recognising that we can't all get to things immediately.
Entries close on the 7th day of the month.
By 14th day of the month we - grade first 13s - request at least one manuscript (via an e-mail to the writer) of the story we'd like to read and grade (probably one whose first 13 we scored highly)
By the last day of the month we - grade at least one manuscript - grade more stories if we want to (e.g. those that have great first 13s in addition to our favourites)
The "end of the day" is the end of the day in your local time. There's no need to be more precise than that.
posted
Title: History Repeats Itself Word Count: 3800 Words Genre: Sci-Fi
quote:Mack Wesley thought he might throw up. This was normal of course, but no less unpleasant. After his stomach stopped doing somersaults he stood and looked around. The morning of April 28th, 2021 appeared to be the perfect spring day he was told to expect. “How you doin, Mack?” Harry’s voice crackled in his ear, shattering the peace and quiet. “Yeah, man. I’m good.” Mack replied. “You made the jump okay -- Everything in one piece?” “I’m fine.” “Alright then, let me check your systems.” Mack felt silly standing in the middle of a park wearing clothes that hadn’t been in style for thirty years.
Anthony
[This message has been edited by AWSullivan (edited August 31, 2008).]
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"The Fun Fair that Forgot" 1700 words Fantasy
The Big Wheel's cars formed a skyward circle of white gazebos, their brass window frames gleaming. Festooned with wild climbing roses and ivy, the Wheel dominated the Fun Fair. At its base was Car One--the Mayor's office. Inside, Mayor Ferris squinted at the phone as his caller said, "I seen a dragon, I tell you." "Martha," said Ferris, "Remember your plague of frogs? Then toads? Then frogs and toads?" "I gaze into a crystal ball. I'm expected to predict plagues. But the dragon were real. I saw it, circlin' above the Boiler House, somethin' in its jaws." "We're too far north for dragons, Martha." "Maybe this one didn't read the Operatin' Manuals." "It's dusk. A big bat perhaps?"
“God gave her cancer for breaking our vows.” Dr Andrew Halifast chewed on his inner cheek while he listened to Lester Greensome’s self-righteous rant. Lester had trouble accepting his ex-wife’s wish for a separation and had a unique way of dealing with it. “Why do you think that God wishes a painful disease on Elaine?” “She vowed to honor and obey me. She made that promise in front of God at the altar. She lied to God. He is punishing her because of it.” Andrew ran his fingers through his hair. Claiming divine retribution for things that he didn’t agree with struck Andrew as absurd. “Lester, five months ago the court ordered you to
Flo checked the clock again. In eight minutes, Dan’s ship would land. She forced herself to concentrate on the work in front of her. It wasn’t right, at her age, to get so worked up over a man. She paid the bills, marked them in the ledger and closed up her desk. That was appropriate behavior for the owner and manager of Flo’s Diner. She left the quiet of her office and entered the noise of the eatery. A table of locals was shouting each other down across over-laden plates of the day’s special. “Flo, did you hear?” A sun-browned man yelled to her. “Hear what?” she played along. “Another of those purple guys tried to land here.” “Oh?” She forced a smile, knowing what was coming.
posted
Kathyton Title: At the Old Gallows Tree Word Count: 3300 Genre: Fantasy A decorative yet effective knot – hangmen called it “the god’s balls” – chafed Queen Clothilda’s ankles raw as she hung inverted in mid air from the Old Gallows Tree. She’d begun her vigil the prior evening, at the rise of Moon Sinister. It had long since set, and its twin, Dexter, hung low but bright on the dark western horizon, about to set as well. Gray, icy dawn crept across the woods from the east, and she watched her fool, Otto, greet the new day. He roused himself from his bedroll, stretched, and peed out the last embers of the campfire. From her upside-down perspective, his stunted frame was strangely elongated as he strapped feedbags on the horses, tidied the campsite, and stumped across the rocky glade. He looked her directly in the eyes, easy enough since she was hanging only a few
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Hashi-to shone his flashlight wildly back and forth amid the shadowed trees. “Where is it now, Tommy?” Thomas stood still behind him, reaching out with his senses. He tried to feel the oni, searching for its breath, the disturbances in the air as it moved. “It’s right behind you, Hashi!” Hashi-to spun around, flinging a glowing paper talisman in the same motion. It struck something unseen in midair. There was a white flash, and before Thomas’s eyes stood a hulking figure, human-shaped but far larger. It had blue skin, and wore the hide of a tiger draped about its body. The talisman was stuck to the creature’s head, between the two small white horns that protruded from its forehead.
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited September 01, 2008).]
The silver god tumbled headlong from his celestial perch. Burning across the wide sky, he collided with the planet in a towering fountain of dust and pulverized bedrock. He lay there, struggling to master the returning sensation of physical pain. With an effort, he began scrambling up the narrow walls of the crater, willing old flesh to remember its long-abandoned utility. Some hours later he drew a rattling sigh of relief when he felt sunlight heat his skin. Exhaustion distracted him enough that he didn't sense the presence of a mortal until it poked its grimy head over the crater’s edge. "The god slay me, how’d you get down there?" the mortal said, clearly unaware of the uncanny prescience of his words. The man stretched and offered both hands to aid the god.
posted
Wow, that was quick! Thanks for contributing, everyone. Entries are now closed for this month.
Please, in this thread, post your grading for each first 13 as follows:
3 - would read on enthusiastically 2 - would read on with caution 1 - would not read on
Each grade should please include a one liner (one sentence or bullet point) with the reason for the grade.
Please request at least one manuscript (via an e-mail to the writer) of the story you'd like to read and grade (probably one whose first 13 you scored highly). (For novels, please share partials--first twenty pages and the synopsis.)
Closing date for the above activities is 14th Sept, leaving us a couple of weeks to the end of the month to read and grade the requested stories.
Overall, I'm intrigued but the opening sentence caused me to stumble.
Supreme Epiphany, Snapper: 1
I don't get a feeling for where this is going. Opening with dialogue from one character with no attribution, followed by a sentence about another, bothered me.
Chameleon Cuckoo, Gardener: 2
Something about the statement 'She paid the bills...' bothered me. Did she actually pay the bills? Or did she just write the checks?
At the Old Gallows Tree, Kathyton: 2
I like the knot bit at the beginning but the sentence is long and kind of weak. Maybe it should be split?
Kitsune-tsuki, Merlion-Emrys: 2
My only nit here is that you refer to Thomas as Tommy and Thomas. If the PoV is Hashi-to then it should be the same, Tommy. If it is Thomas then if Thomas thinks of himself as Thomas while others think of him as Tommy then it is fine. All that said, I didn't get a clear feel for the PoV from the first 13. 3rd Person obviously but who?
Golb's Daughter, AlliedFive: 1
This really isn't my cup of tea. The writing isn't bad though. Should it be 'The god's slay me...'?
posted
History Repeats Itself, AWSullivan: 2 I would read on, but the first sentence felt like a bait and switch since the throwing up doesn't happen and is forgotten quickly. Maybe say he feels like he's gonna throw up in the dialogue and start the story with "The morning of".
The Fun Fair that Forgot, Talespinner: 2 I like the voice and I'm definitely hooked, but a lot of names and places are thrown at me in this 13 lines: Big Wheel, Fun Fair, Car One, Mayor Ferris, a dragon, Martha, three plagues, a crystal ball, Boiler House, too far north, Operatin' Manuals. It's a lot to digest.
Supreme Epiphany, snapper: 1 Cool concept. I felt like this first thirteen is a little repetitive. The Dr.'s thoughts are evident to me from his dialogue, I don't think you need to tell us again with his thoughts, or maybe just have less of them.
Chameleon Cuckoo, Gardener: 1 Not really my favorite genre, so I probably wouldn't read on. Well written though. I stumbled on the cliche nature of "Flo's Diner", and "over-laden" didn't seem right.
At the Old Gallows Tree, kathyton: 3 Really like this one. Subtle hooks. "inverted in mid air" could be "upside-down" (then cut the superfluous "upside-down" from the 2nd to last sentence) and it would read smoother for me.
Kitsune-tsuki, Merlion-Emrys: 2 The end of this is really cool. That first sentence felt like a clunker to me; "wildly" seems like it should be after "back and forth" and "amid" doesn't really seem right, maybe "at" or "amongst" or something.
I dislike time travel intensely so its unlikely I would continue. Recomend putting the bit about nearly throwing up after the character appears.
The Fun Fair that Forgot, Talespinner: 3
A carnival and a dragon is all thats really needed to keep my attention.
Supreme Epiphany, snapper: 2
Well written but although I suppose it does happen, its hard for me to imagine anyone actually saying things like that to someone and expecting to be taken seriously.
Chameleon Cuckoo, Gardener: 2
I would read on because I like the diner setting, and due to the mention of a purple person. The line about apropriate behaviour seems rather stilted though and the whole fist paragraph a touch disjointed.
At the Old Gallows Tree, kathyton: 3
Well written, and someone hanging from a gallows tree upside down and alive, combined with a "fool" character is plenty to get my interest.
Golb's Daugher, alliedfive: 3
Also well written, and I'm a sucker for stories about gods.
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited September 05, 2008).]
I'm kinda interested but cautious because he knows where and when he is (some other time, presumably) yet he seems not to have prepared himself by wearing the right clothes.
Supreme Epiphany, snapper - 1
Lester wins no sympathy from me, and I know too little of Andrew to know whether I like him or not. It feels like it may become more of a rant than a story. I imagine Lester's "unique way of dealing with it" is the hook, but it's abstract, and too much buried in conversation and Andrew's reactions for me to notice on first reading.
Chameleon Cuckoo, Gardener - 2
I like the title and can see Flo and her eatery. I'm interested. 'one of those purple guys' presumably refers to Dan and since I can't imagine a plausible reason why he'd be purple I'm cautious, because it might turn out to be a shaggy dog story.
At the Old Gallows Tree, kathyton - 3
Two moons, a Queen with a fool, a colourful world, well painted in these opening lines. I'm hooked.
Kitsune-tsuki, Merlion-Emrys - 3
Very visual, with the dark of the trees, the light, the glowing paper talisman and the blue-skinned figure. Menacing and mysterious, enough so to draw me in. I like the Oriental names despite not understanding them.
Golb's Daughter, alliedfive - 2
It's nicely written and engaging--except, I can't visualise what the god looks like and given descriptors like "silver", feel that I ought to be able to. I like the interaction with the mortal.
posted
I'm going, I'm going. I will give you all a proper analysis but I got to get to work.
I will read a review all that I can. Everyone is invited to send theirs to me except Alliedfive ( I already read it). I will review them on a first come, first served bases.
posted
Yeah, I know I didnt get a story in this month, but I would still like to contribute anyway I can. So here goes:
History Repeats Itself - 1.5 - To me this was ordinary, read like a lot of the other time travel piece's I have seen. The writing was fine, I only had one nit, I would try to lose the replied tag. Maybe suggest working in inner thoughts of Mack more so the reader would feel instantly for the character. Could be done in just a sentence or two of inner thoughts. Also, the not being dressed for the part is rather cliche in time travel. Would think if he had done this before, he would be better prepared, unless circumstances prevented it.
The Fun Fair that Forgot-1.5 - I am beginning to think that this is a taste thing with TaleSpinner's style that throws me. The entire concept is right up my alley, dragons and such, so I should be intrigued, but the first sentence read so hard for me. I still don't think I follow it, was it a carousel, ferris wheel? The dialogue seemed forced, but again I suspect this could be my taste or still being lose on the first sentence. Despite saying I would not read, I intend to ask for the piece as I suspect, once I get into it, my feelings could change, and I might be able to better pinpoint my thoughts.
Supreme Epiphany-2 - Have already read the early draft, but interested to see how it ends. As far as the first thirteen, it read well, fast and painless, no stumbling blocks. The only nit I have would be, a little telling the seceond paragraph, before the shrink opens up with his dialgoue. although not sure if in 13 lines you would be able to show it as effectively.
Chameleon Cuckoo-1.5 - The third sentence to the end of the first paragrpah, I felt could have been worded differnetly, for more effect. ex. At her age, it wasnt right to get worked up over a man. I stumbled on the orignal version for some reason. Not a whole lot going on for me, until the purple guys were mentioned.
At the Old Gallows Tree-2 - My only nit here was it might be more effective to start with the beginning of the ritual. altough now that I say that, it is a short story not a novel, so you probably did right. I loved the "peed out" the embers, great characterization. I think I totally misspelled that last word. I liked the touchs of description, letting us know it's an alien world.
Kitsune-tsuki-2 - I would suggest using either "wildly" or "back and forth" not both, I think one or the other would read stronger. Also, Not sure I need to no where Thomas is standing. Might read more dramtic, as Thomas reached out with his senses. Also, if he were standing right behind Hashi-to, and so was the Oni, then wouldnt the talisman hit Thomas. Would suggest. A white light flahsed. I have a thing for "was", while commonly mistaken as a sure thinf for passive sentences, its not always. But I do feel, in most cases could be written out for stronger sentences. Same thing with the last sentence. The talisman stuck to the creature's ...
Golb's Daughter-2 - The "silver god" had me. Would suggest rewording the second sentence, maybe making it two for more effect. Also, suggest, with an effort he scrambled up the ... a lot of times, began isnt necessary. Love the last part, willin old flesh, in fact loved it so much might suggest setting it off with an emdash -- make it stand out even more. "The god slay me," I would have thought it either, the gods slay me or god slay me.
Anyways, this are my thoughts, hope you find something in my rambling useful.
Well done all.
[This message has been edited by Tiergan (edited September 06, 2008).]
posted
History Repeats 3 I liked the dialogue, and the story establishes an intriguing situation.
Fun Fair 3 I thought this was cute and promises to be quite funny.
Supreme Epiphany 2 I don't like Lester (that's done well), so much so that I'm not sure I want to read a story about him. I'd read on to see what Andrew is going to do about this jerk.
Chameleon 3 A diner, ships landing, and purple guys -- it's got my interest.
Kitsuni 2 The scene was compelling, but I felt like I missed something. but perhaps it will be explained shortly.
Golb's 2 I became interested when the mortal showed up.
I thought this was an especially strong group of openers. I wish I had more time to read this month.
Slightly better than most of the openings I see in the publications today. The first two sentences feel wrong. Perhaps if you took out the ‘This was’ and replace with a comma? I can’t give it a higher score because it starts like so many other stories I have read. Writing is solid though.
The Fun Fair that Forgot 1.7
The grade maybe unfair because I have read this opening in Fragments before, too familiar. This looks like a silly story too and I would need to be in a receptive mood to read it (man ain’t I a dark kettle calling a pot black). Still, it has appeal and as an editor I would keep reading to see what happens. But I got to admit, I hate the title.
Chameleon Cuckoo 2.0
The hint of a plot grabs me. The writing gets a b+. A slight tendency to overwrite, for example… ‘concentrate on the work in front of her’ would look smoother to me if you wrote… ‘concentrate on her work’. Anticipation for Dan and purple guys do make a nice hook.
At the Old Gallows Tree 2.5
An MC going through some sort of self-imposed torture with an odd companion under the sky of a twin moon. You did all of that in 13 lines as well. Excellent job. That first line is great. Why didn’t I give you a 3? Hmmm, it just didn’t get me to sit up and take notice. Nevertheless, I am definitely hooked and would anticipate a very good story if I were an Editor reading these first 13 lines.
Kitsune-tsuki 2.0
Nice job. The start was a little too sudden and being forced to learn new terms and struggling to pronounce far-eastern names gets me to pause. Still I would keep reading.
Golb's Daughter 1.5
From this, I visualized a mammoth being colliding with the planet. Then he appears to be the size of a normal human. The crater seems way to big to be made by a normal-sized person (several hours to climb out). I would like to know how he fell and if someone is responsible for his fall. Too many questioned need answered at this point.
I agree with Kathy. A strong group this month. It will be a pleasure reading them.
posted
I agree, great stories this month--thanks, everyone. I think we've all graded the first 13s so, the final phase is this.
When we've read the story (or stories) we requested, we post in this thread its scores on ten characteristics using this grading scheme:
3 - Better than Heinlein (or, better than my favourite published author of today, or better than the best published author in the story’s genre--name her if you like) 2 - As good as the best authors published today (but not quite good enough) 1 - Okay but not as good as published authors
Story characteristics:
1 character development 2 plot 3 satisfactory ending 4 milieu 5 willing suspension of disbelief 6 unique/never been done before 7 writing style 8 dialogue 9 action 10 understandable ("I get it")
If you feel like including a short crit that's fine but not essential.
So if you think a story is perfectly ready for market except in the willing suspension of disbelief department, your post might look like this:
quote:
The Magical Lute 1 character development-3 2 plot-3 3 satisfactory ending-3 4 milieu-3 5 willing suspension of disbelief-1 6 unique/never been done before-3 7 writing style-3 8 dialogue-3 9 action-3 10 understandable ("I get it") -3
I enjoyed the characters but could not suspend disbelief because I do not believe in magical lutes.
We have until the end of the month to do this.
Then--bearing in mind Tiergan's encouragement and the good quality of stories so far--we'll start a new cycle for October--with new stories, of course.
posted
I don't really care for the whole 3point rating system much...for me, you can take it as 1=needs work 2=average 3=very good
kathyton-At the Old Gallows Tree
Character development: 2 I think we got to know the main character pretty well, if some times in a somewhat info-dumpy way
Plot: 1.5 There wasn't much of one, which is ok for some stories where the focus is atomosphere, setting etc but that wasnt the case here. I didn't really feel like we knew what was trying to be accomplished
Ending: 1 to abrupt and too convienient
Milieu: 2
Suspension of Disbelief: 3 (note however that I have very, very ready suspension of disbelief, mostly because I believe in most stff)
Unique: 2 i guess. I dont really like this catagory
Writing Style: 2.5 Very well written
Dialogue: 1.5 bit to much exposition in the dialogue, but definitely some good spots
Action: not sure how this applies to a non-action story. I'm gonna say 2
Understandable: 3
Good story, well written. The speculative element was not nearly as strong as I had hoped for. Some of the dialogue was a little stilted or exposition-y. Especially the soldiers dialogue at the end...which is the other problem. I felt the end was rather abrupt and inconclusive. Hats off though for a appearance by Huginn and Muninn. I'd really like to see the mystical elements played up, and a more active ending
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited September 11, 2008).]
By the way, unless it is somehow transcendent, 2 is the highest rating for me. I’m not sure I can ever say anyone’s work is “better than my favorite published author”, because then he wouldn’t be my favorite!
Character development: 2 – I think you did a thorough job of developing your main character, and as this story is centered on her, I don’t think you need to do anything else in this area.
Plot: 1 – I think the plot was a little tough to swallow for a couple reasons. The main one being that she is willing to put herself through the whole ritual (even if it leads to death) just to avoid marrying someone undesirable. In light of the ending, the lengths she was going to didn’t seem warranted by the state of things.
Ending: 1 – I feel like it was a little abrupt, but not too bad. I think the problem with the ending is the same problem I mentioned in the plot section. She realizes (I think) that she just needs to try a little harder and grow up.
Milieu: 2 – I was firmly in the world. It felt authentic but particularly fresh.
Suspension of Disbelief: Not sure how to score this one, as (from what I could tell) nothing supernatural happened (unless the crows were really talking, in which case you get a 2 ).
Unique: 3 – This category depends solely on what I’ve read personally. I’ve never read a similar story before, so you get a 3!
Writing Style: 2 – Excellent prose, really polished and clear and grammatical. I am jealous.
Dialogue: 2 – Very well written, and I never thought about it once (that’s a compliment).
Action: 1 – Not much action, but the one violent part never really made me nervous (not sure you were going for true tension in that scene anyway)
Understandable: 2 – Completely understandable. I never lost my bearings, and never reread paragraphs. Good job.
I really enjoyed it, and it felt more polished that most of what I crit at Hatrack. Nice job. I’m not an expert, but if I read this in a pro magazine I would think it holds its own writing-wise.
[This message has been edited by alliedfive (edited September 10, 2008).]
Character Development - 1 Plot - 2 Ending - 1 Milieu - 1 Suspension of disbelief - 1.5 Unique - 1 Writing Style - 1 Dialog - 2.5 Action - 2 Understandable 2.75
Overall it's an interesting story but the problem is the old "show don't tell" It's just a narration of events. I don't get to experience it along with the character.
Going to try to do this the recomended way this time, and maybe fix my other one beter later..
Character development: 2 I think we got to know them very well, but some times the delivery of the information could be improved.
Plot: 1.5 Its mostly character development and backstory till near the end.
Ending: 1 I don't really feel like I knew what was happening, nor that it was foreshadowed properly.
Milieu: 2 I dont think this catagory is all that relevent to some stories...your setting wasnt that important to the story but I thought it was done reasonbly well.
Suspension of Disbelief: 3 overall, 1.5 for some of the dialogue which didnt seem like things people would actually say. The supernatural elements were handled in a very belieavble and consistent manner
Unique: Don't like this catagory. I'm giving it a 3 because while gods have been done, the overall plotline was, I thought very original putting aside the resolution problems.
Writing Style: 3 very nicely written
Dialogue: Overall, at least a 2, but in several places a 1. Bit to much exposition by dialogue, and some dialogue that just wasnt believable.
Action: What little there was, 3
Understandable: 3 for most of it, 1 for the end.
I loved this story, great concept, good feel, good writing. There are some issues with the balance of dialogue exposition and narrative exposition, leading to some spots of rather stilted, not very believable dialogue. There are some areas where the plot, events, or characters dialogue just feels a little too convienient. Then there is the end...I was left not really knowing exactly what happened (or rather what would have happened) and I felt the end came along a bit to suddenly. I didn't feel like we knew where we were going till we got there. But with just a bit of tweakng and polishing off these problems I think you have a nice little gem here.
quote:3 - Better than Heinlein (or, better than my favourite published author of today, or better than the best published author in the story’s genre--name her if you like)
Impossible. If your even close to being this good you would have left hatrack long along
quote:2 - As good as the best authors published today (but not quite good enough)
Also a very high mark. I will base my grades on this scale.
3 - As good as you can get. You should be published at the highest pay rate.
2 - As good as what's out there today (but your going to be better to crack into that club)
1 character development – 1.3 Story was too short and jarring to grasp the characters. It felt like I jumped into a TV series halfway through the season and I was struggling to figure out who they were.
2 plot – 2.1 Not bad. In fact it was a good idea. A slight problem with the premise prevents me from scoring it higher.
3 satisfactory ending – 1.1 To be honest, I thought the ending was silly. A big reason why I thought the premise was weak.
4 milieu – 2.9 People living in an abandoned carnival with dragons flying around. Hard to top that.
5 willing suspension of disbelief – 0.9 I couldn’t buy that people would tend to abandoned equipment when they don’t even know what their purpose is. I can’t image it would work after such a long period of disuse either.
6 unique/never been done before – 3.0 I can honestly say I have never seen anything like this before.
7 writing style – 2.2 Your technical skills are very good (hell of a lot better than mine). Presentation is fine. Other problems with the story that I’m not sure should be attributed by your style.
8 dialogue – 2 Dialogue was fine but the people didn’t seem so bright, which may be what you intended.
9 action – 2 Okay, I could clearly see what you were describing but it didn’t excite me as I read it.
10 understandable ("I get it") – 2 I did get it but didn’t buy it.
As I said, I found the premise weak but I’ve read other published works that were as weak before. One problem I found is this read as if too much was missing. The story was complete but it felt like you chopped a thousand words out to get it to fit under a word count ceiling. Nevertheless, I found this engaging, it kept my interest through out. If I were an Assistant Editor for a top publication with three hundred more submissions to get through, I would have read the entire thing (that puts it in the top ten percent), but would have probably passed on it.
1 character development – 1.2 A lot of work went into developing your characters, but I couldn’t find them believable.
2 plot – 1 Almost half of this was that first scene with flo and her prejudice customers. The rest was about a sometime girlfriend with her spaceman boyfriend trying to be affectionate. Felt cliché.
3 satisfactory ending – 0.6 The kind of ending that would piss people off. You introduced your spaceman’s true nature without the slightest hint of what he was about. A sucker punch type of ending.
4 milieu – 1.4 A restaurant and a spaceship. That’s fine but I couldn’t get the feeling that I was in either one.
5 willing suspension of disbelief – 1.5 A world full of xenophobic people and a local girl with an offworld boyfriend. That’s fine and would have a nice story like that. Having that boyfriend leaving an alien baby with that girlfriend on that planet without knowing very much about that is not very believable at all. Sounds like a bad sitcom.
6 unique/never been done before – 1.4 Girlfriend waiting for guy, been done. A planet full of racist people, one already exist. An abandoned alien baby left in the care of humans, seen that too. Putting all three together makes it kind of knew to me so far.
7 writing style I better not score this one. Too many speech tags. Too many description tags. A large chunk of this in the opening scene I found redundant. And the way you presented that last scene is one big no-no.
8 dialogue 2 Okay.
9 action 2 Not much action to give a proper grade
10 understandable ("I get it") 2 I got it but didn’t buy it.
Two things that I stress you should do and you may have an opportunity to sell this to a semi-pro market. First trim, and a lot of it. Tighten it and cut out two thirds of it. It could be done easier than you think. This would make it a flash piece, which is what it felt like. Second, change that blind-sided ending. It comes so far out of left field that its past the stands and two blocks down the street. You at least need to provide a hint of an inclination that your Captain has something more to him than a freighter skipper. If I were an AE of a major publication, I probably wouldn’t have lasted past the first scene, but if I did, that ending would have left me disappointed.
posted
At the Old Gallows Tree by Kathyton 1 character development – 1.8 Three significant characters and a fourth background one. The MC was done nicely. Her companion was okay. The soldier and the refugee were not realistic to me.
2 plot – 2 A new queen that is using a desperate measure to deal with her kingdoms dire circumstance a solution to get her out of a planned nuptial. Not bad but not exciting.
3 satisfactory ending – 1.7 Felt empty and incomplete. I mentioned to her that it looked like an excerpt to a novel. Even though you can say it had a resolution, it felt like a small part of a larger story.
4 milieu – 2.1 Not a queen hanging by her ankles under a gallows tree. Not bad and intriguing. The flashback wasn’t necessary and took away from that vivid setting.
5 willing suspension of disbelief – 2.3 Oddly, I totally bought into it. A superstitious person as your queen would willing go through such a dangerous desperate measure if they thought it would help.
6 unique/never been done before – 2.4 I never saw this done before. It looks a little familiar.
7 writing style – 2.8 Very strong prose. The characters interacting with each other could use a little work but that’s minor.
8 dialogue – 2 It could have been the characters were trying to create but they’re dialog seemed to be a little off to me.
9 action 1.2 The companion and the old soldier fighting was a little hard to follow. If an improvement is needed this is the spot.
10 understandable ("I get it") – 2.3 Yeah I got it. A little slice in the life of a new monarch with difficult choices ahead of her and her attempt to find a way out.
The story that I felt is most likely to get published (I haven’t read A W Sullivans at this point). Your writing is top notch. I left wanting more which is good and bad. I feel that your stories are incomplete (I base that on last months story as well). You can continue to workshop your work but you may start running around in circles trying to make everyone happy. Your good enough to just start submitting and go up against the best of the stories submitted to every SFWA publication. One of these times you’re going to strike gold. In short, if I were the AE of a major publication, I would pass this one along to the guy up top.
1 character development: 1.5 I thought the characters were somewhat anemic. I was able to establish my own ideas of what they looked and acted like but most of this was driven by the dialogue.
2 plot: 2 The plot was thin but this was a short short story so there isn't much room for more.
3 satisfactory ending: 1.5 The ending was very passive for me. There is this dragon hanging out in the boiler room. Guess we'll just leave it there. I think that its really a result of the plot since the dragon turns out to be an okay thing but there just didn't seem to be a resolution.
4 milieu: 2.5 A cult like group of people hanging out in an abandoned carnival. Works for me.
5 willing suspension of disbelief: 2.0 I bought into the story over all. I got a pretty good feel for the surreal nature of the story early enough to know that things were gonna be odd.
6 unique/never been done before: 2.5 I've never read anything like it before.
7 writing style: 2.0 Your writing is good and tight. Not really much to bag on. I like the use of uncommon words like 'festooned'.
8 dialogue: 1.5 Probably the only part of the story that really dragged on me. The dialogue was a little strange and unrealistic for me in places.
9 action: 2.0 There wasn't much in the way of 'action' but you described what was going on very well. I never thought I might be confused.
10 understandable ("I get it"): 3.0 The story made sense.
Overall I liked the story. I was engaged throughout and nothing really pulled me out of the story. I've read plenty of stories in publication that were much worse. One thing to note is that in a story this short you have to have everything right. An editor can forget about a small ding early on by the time he finishes a six thousand word story but it will still be fresh in her mind when this one is done.
posted
Kitsune-tsuki by Merlion-Emrys 1 character development – 1.4 Started off nice but the entry of Linda’s parents changed the tone of the characters. They started to act cliché at that point.
2 plot – 1.5 I liked the idea of two young men (ghostbuster style) would hunt and capture magical creatures. Then it became a ‘need to save the girl from the bad guy’ story.
3 satisfactory ending – 0.8 Nope wasn’t satisfied at all. Too convient. Too much like the guys were riding off into the sunset for me.
4 milieu – 1.5 Liked the setting of Central Park. Wasn’t fond of the office building or the parents summer home. I thought it could have used more detail.
5 willing suspension of disbelief – 1.4 I could believe it but felt not enough was done to sell it.
6 unique/never been done before – 1.7 Looked a little like a young ghostbuster type of story. Some original aspects to it (paper talisman, origami weapons, those were cool).
7 writing style – 0.8 Needs work. The characters seemed unnatural and the scenes uncomfortable. A tendency to overwrite, in my opinion.
8 dialogue – 0.6 It’s what needs the most work. Only the Japanese seemed realistic to me when he talked. The parents were cliché. The MC was forced, and the girl a little stiff.
9 action – 2.6 Ahh, here we go. Much of the action I found outstanding (especially the opening scene). The battle with the fox was a little clunky but I could see clearly what you were writing.
10 understandable ("I get it") – 1.9 Less than a two. I got it but it took a bit for me to buy into it.
The first scene I thought was dynamite. Had nice action and we could see what these two kids were about, magical hunters that watched over imprisoned creatures in artifacts. I could see a use for them. I was engaged in the opening scene and thought this was going to a winner for sure. Then once the girls parents entered the story it fell apart. The dialog made it unnatural and the setting became awkward. It was like someone wrote the first 800 words and another person took over. The quality went way down. If I were an AE at a major publication with 300 more submissions to get through, I would have dove into the piece after reading the start but would have gave up before the half way point.
[This message has been edited by snapper (edited September 15, 2008).]
1 character development: 1.5 The characters were pretty well developed but somewhat cliche.
2 plot: 1.5 The plot was interesting but a fairly common trope. Needs something to set it apart from every other save the girl story.
3 satisfactory ending: 1.5 The ending was a very typical ending for this sub-genre. There always seems to be a happy ending. Obviously it works for the sub-genre but I think you could do better.
4 milieu: 2.0 The settings were pretty well described. Just enough information to give the reader an idea and then let them fill the blanks.
5 willing suspension of disbelief: 1.75 I bought it in the end but it took me a bit to get into it.
6 unique/never been done before: 1.5 I liked the idea of magical origami. That was new for me, maybe not for the genre. The use of the Japanese terms throughout was interesting but somewhat distracting.
7 writing style: 2.0 The writing is fair enough. I wonder how much could be chopped by tightening up in some places.
8 dialogue: I couldn't help but think of typical anime when I read the dialogue, especially towards the end.
10 understandable ("I get it"): 2.5 The Japanese terms to describe the talismans, wizard guy and baddies was a little distracting for me but that could be because of my unfamiliarity with the sub-genre.
Overall it wasn't bad. I'm glad I read it because it was an enjoyable story. The beginning was much better than the ending which I think hurts the story over all. Editors make the decision to buy at the end, not the beginning.
1 character development – 1.5 - I think this is where the main problem was. If we felt more for the characters or the characters felt more real then the story would have shined more for me.
2 plot – 2 - I liked the plot, ancient Japeneese magic, monsters in New York
3 satisfactory ending - 1.5 - The ending was predictable for me, which I don't really have a problem with but, seemed to be lacking.
4 milieu - 2 - I bought it, and the central park scene was great from the get go.
5 Willing suspension of disbelief – 2 - I believed.
6 unique/never been done before – 2 - I don't know here, don't read many short stories, but seemed unique enough to me.
7 writing style – 1 - I think it could be tigtened.
8 dialogue – 1 - This read stiff, goes along with the characters issue.
9 action – 2.5 - I liked the action scenes.
10 understandable ("I get it") – 2 - I get it.
Already sent crit, but will give brief thoughts here. I liked it, was predictable outcome, but action held me and really liked the magic system. My main concern is the characters needed to be fleshed out more and feel real.
1 Character Development - 1.5 - Again, here is where I have the most problem with most stories, short stories may be different, but I don't quite feel enough for the characters.
2 Plot - 2 - I liked the plot, shrink helping God
3 Ending - 1.5 - Close but not quite, really felt it would have been more powerful ending with people fleeing as he came back to life. I feel you did a strong enough job that the reader knew he was coming back to be God's messenger.
4 Milieu - 2 - Liked it, the scenes and such, I bought into it.
5 Suspension of disbelief - 2 - Yes, bought into it again.
6 Unique - 2.5 - Again, I don't read many short stories, but a shrink helping God, seemed pretty good to me.
7 Writing Style - 2 - Instantly readable, no stumbles along the way. With this style of story its very hard to keep one going, depends entirely along the dialogue and such. But good job.
8 Dialog - 2 - Well Done. Would have liked to see some inner dialogue/thoughts of Andrew.
9 Action - 2 - What action there was was well done. Not a lot of action though.
10 Understandable - 3 - Get it, yes I did. And again, Snapper sir, I would have gotten it with the crowd fleeing the funeral. No need for me that last scene.(Sorry, couldnt help saying again, seeing I said it a couple times in my crit.)
Overall, a good piece, got it, and a good read. Have sent a more complete crit already but, the jist of it was, the ending(enough said), what happened to Lester, WOuld like to see more emotion for Anderew(Maybe it was fitting of a shrink, don't know)
1 character development – 2.1 The two main characters were easy to follow. The MC seemed awkward but I believe he was supposed to be. His companion was a mixed bag, sometimes right and other times wrong on how I thought she should be portrayed.
2 plot – 2 A fine story. Probably not my type but still well constructed. Not bad for a first completed attempt.
3 satisfactory ending – 1.2 Didn’t really like the ending. Nothing resolved, nothing gained, nothing accomplished. But it was an ending and others may feel differently than I.
4 milieu – 2 It was okay. Mostly a desert setting, not much else to it but no complaints.
5 willing suspension of disbelief – 2 Other than the start, I could say that I did buy into it, incredible premise that it was.
6 unique/never been done before – 2 A fallen god out for revenge and to return to his throne, except it wasn’t quite as grand as that summary. Never really saw it done before but still felt kinda familiar.
7 writing style – 2 Not bad but room for improvement.
8 dialogue – 1.7 Golb’s dialog felt off and the girls explanation didn’t seem right to me in that final scene. That, and the start, was the weakest part of your story.
9 action – 1.5 The fighting, although I understood it, didn’t get me to sit on the edge of my seat. Improve on it and this will have a better shot.
10 understandable ("I get it") – 2 Yeah I got it, not excited by it, but I got it.
The opening needs changed. It felt like I walked into the movie ten minutes after the start. This could use some trimming as well. If you get it down to 6000 words (something I think you could do) it will open this to a host full of markets. It’s been awhile but I believe you had too many description tags that slowed it down, if memory serves me correctly. A good story but not the best this month. In short, if I were the AE of a major publication with 300 more submissions to get through, I would have been tempted to put this aside after the first page. If I got past that I probably would have read it all the way through. Depending on my mood, and the strength of the other submissions that month, I probably would have placed it in another pile and think about sending it to the guy up top.
1 character development – 2.2 This would have been higher if it wasn’t for the massive info-dump in the center of the story. It made it feel like the characters were being robbed of development
2 plot – 2.1 This would have been higher if it wasn’t for the premise. This is a good example on why time-travel stories are so hard to pull off.
3 satisfactory ending – incomplete I can’t answer it because too many questions are left in my head about the paradox nature of the story. If MC goes back in time and MC goes back again to fix a mistake then MC goes back again to stop self from making mistake of fixing mistake then…. See what I mean?
4 milieu – 2.4 Very solid but couldn’t visualize time-machine (I like to see such things)
5 willing suspension of disbelief – 1 Oooo – tough grade but I got two reasons for it. One: the premise. Too many paradoxs that overlapped. If MC went back and changed his own future life then when he went back to stop himself from making the mistake then who and what reality did he come from? It was written like time was one reality but if you go back and change your future in the past then how can your future self come back and make the mistake in the first place (Forget it, I’m giving myself a headache) Two: How they used the time machine. They were political spys? Checking candidates stories on how they lived in there past? Man, what a waste. Throw money in the bank and collect the interest. Or bet on the Superbowl winner, or Kentucky derby, or invest in Microsoft in the 80’s...
6 unique/never been done before – 1 Been done plenty of times.
7 writing style – 2.5 Very good. Not much to correct. Writing was very engaging.
8 dialogue – 2.2 Not memorable but very good.
9 action – 2.8 Outstanding. Could visually see the little girl getting hit by the truck. Following the kids in the alley wasn’t bad either.
10 understandable ("I get it") – 2 Yeah, I got it. Gave me a headache but I got it.
Time-travel is tough to pass off. Not a lot of stories done on it. I have read some that worked (Harry Turtledove wrote the same story twice from two separate perspectives. Counting 18 up and Counting 40 down. I recommend it to everyone.) I even read one written by an amateur that was done well too. (Don’t know if he sold it). So it can be done but you really need to tie the ends in neat knots. This one I graded high, only Kathyton’s I thought was better (and it was close) but style isn’t what is going to keep this from getting sold. A tough one to market and one that would be hard to fix so it could be sold. I suggest that you deal with the info-dump and try anyway. So, if I were an AE working for a major publication and had 300 more submissions to get through, I would most likely read the whole thing (although I may have dumped out in the middle of the info-dump). Once finished I would have rejected it but wrote you a note praising your work with an explanation why.
posted
I've read all the stories this month and gave everyone a crit. I hope all of you appreciated my explanations as if I were an Assistant editor as a first reader. Getting it past them (like John Adams of Fantasy and Science Fiction) is the first hurdle.
My crits may have been harsh but I believe that is what the purpose of this particular workshop is about. I enjoyed reading everybodies and look forward to next month.
Character Development: 2-2.5 Theres only really one character that gets, or really needs to be, developed. Completely acceptable for the type of story this was.
Plot: 2 nothing special for its type but well done.
Ending: 2.5 more or less as expected, but thats not an issue to me. The last dream sequence seemed a little odd to me.
Milieu: Not really going to score this one as it was more or less irrelevent to this particular story.
Suspension of Disbelief: 3 I had no problem believing what was presented as it was presented.
Never Done Before: 1, but everything has been done before
Writing Style: 2 nicely done, no big flaws I noticed.
Dialogue: Not much of it, but worked well I thought 2.5
Action: Wasn't really any.
Understandable: 3 totally understandable.
Good story, despite the time travel...probably because it was basically a cautionary on what a bad idea time travel would be. I honestly didn't see too much to criticise. As has been mentioned, time travel is tough. The unresolved nature of the "paradox" didn't bother me personally...I didn't see it as all that relevent to what was happening. Overall very nicely done.
1 character development – 1 This was my main concern here. I never felt for any of the characters. Thought if focused on 1 or 2 would feel more for them.
2 plot – 2 I liked it.
3 satisfactory ending – 1.5 Do to the characters the ending was lacking for me. I really liked the plot, and the meaning behind it. If I felt for the characters the ending would have scored higher.
4 milieu – 2.5 Crazy Carnies and a dragon. I liked it.
5 willing suspension of disbelief – 1.5 I could buy it, again if I were one with the characters, i would buy it even more. I have nothing wrong with people aimlessly doing a job they have no idea why. This seems like half the workforce I have had the pleasure of meeting. Just do my job, and don't aske. We don't get paid to think.
6 unique/never been done before – 2.5 I have no idea, I don't read many short stories excpet here. But never heard of another.
7 writing style – 2 I had no true problems here, altough if memory serves me, its been a week since critting it, I did have a few minor nits.
8 dialogue – 2 No problem here either. Not feeling for the characters, pretty much leads to everyting. If i don't feel for them, their voices don't shine as well as they could have.
9 action – 1.5 Not really a lot of action, other then the rides.
10 understandable ("I get it") – 3 I think I get it. The older poeple get, the more tied up in their jobs they get, sometimes forgetting why they are working in the first place, and forget how to "live" have fun.
I liked it, a cute piece. Again, my only concern was the character development. I didnt feel for them. This could just be me and my preferene to being in a 3rd person close, so I can feel their feelings as they are.
posted
The Fun Fair I enjoyed reading this piece and thought it was very well written. I'll send Tailspinner more detailed comments soon; I'm taking a little vacation time this week end.
My biggest issue is with stakes; I wonder if it is meant to be for the children's/young adult market, but, even so, there has to be something important at stake for someone the reader cares about. I wonder if the Fun Fair itself is meant to be the POV character. If so . . . I have no advice. that sounds very difficult. I'm sure there are pro examples.
Story characteristics:
1 character development -- 2 I enjoyed the characters, particularly the mechanics, but they had a certain remoteness, as well. 2 plot -- 2 This is where I wondered if the fair itself had the most at stake here-- it's function had been lost through time, an d only regained through a serendipidous dragon. Unique plot. 3 satisfactory ending -- 2 I think the resumption of the fair's proper function is satisfying. 4 milieu -- 3 Highly enjoyable 5 willing suspension of disbelief -- 3 I was with you, but there was a certain lack of substance, probably intentional. 6 unique/never been done before -- 3 New to me. 7 writing style -- 3 very good 8 dialogue -- 2 somewhat stylized, but suitable for these characters, who are also stylized. 9 action -- 2 fun. alot of switching of POV and location for a very short story. 10 understandable ("I get it") -- 3 clear narrative-- never felt confused.
In short, a very well told story, but no deep issues to pull me in head over heels in love with it. I will think further for more profound advice.
I like the concept, and the idea that a planet could be xenophobic. I like Flo, although, for me, she's a little too remote from Dan in much of their dialogue. I think the story would be more satisfying if Dan's feelings--love, or cynical manipulation--for Flo were more clear.
Story characteristics:
character development -- 2
I'd like the secondary characters to be more real, some with names. Their attitudes could deepen our knowledge of the two MCs. And, Dan wouldn't think of Rain as "nonhuman": what is Rain?
plot -- 2
I like the chameleon cuckoo concept, but a tiny bit more on how he came to be what he is, and the reasons for chasing him, would be nice.
satisfactory ending -- 2 milieu -- 2 willing suspension of disbelief -- 2 unique/never been done before -- 3 writing style -- 3 dialogue -- 2 action -- 2 understandable ("I get it") -- 3
I enjoyed reading it for the good atmosphere, believable--but why does she believe so strongly in the magic? And it's a little unsatisfying that, ultimately, we don't see the magic she's hoping for.
Story characteristics:
character development -- 3
I like how the fool is anything but a fool.
plot -- 2.2
It made sense, except I thought the soldier stopped attacking them too easily. She had not established herself as a fearsome queen, so he seemed to have little reason to back off as easily as he did.
satisfactory ending -- 2 milieu -- 3 willing suspension of disbelief -- 2 unique/never been done before -- 2 writing style -- 3
I very much like the writing and the little details that tell much and establish atmosphere.
I felt the characters needed stronger motivations for their behaviour to make sense. I didn't feel sympathy for the MC nor for Siri, who seemed too naive to believe.
plot -- 1
With better character motivation I believe the plot would improve.
satisfactory ending -- 1 milieu -- 1
I think it needs some detail and is too generic as it is.
willing suspension of disbelief -- 1 unique/never been done before --1 writing style --2
Clean, clear writing.
dialogue --2
It's okay, but with too much lecturing and history for my taste.
action --2 understandable ("I get it") --1
Sorry, I didn't really get it. Maybe this is not a genre I like.
character development --2 plot --1 satisfactory ending --1 milieu --2 willing suspension of disbelief --1 unique/never been done before --1 writing style --2 dialogue --3 action --3 understandable ("I get it") --2
Decent time travel stories are getting harder to do, because they've so often been done before. It was not clear to me how just observing would avoid paradoxes because, for example, there was a clear risk of accidents like the one that happened. (It's also hard to believe that government would deny itself more active, self-serving uses of the power of time travel.)
I enjoyed reading the action and dialogue sequences but, for me, this story has too much telling, not enough "being there". Some aspects seemed more of a convenience for the narrator, such as the close relationships of the main characters and the cancer.
I enjoyed reading "Kitsune-tsuki" even though i'm not normally drawn to tales of mystical creatures.
Story characteristics:
character development --2
Would have been 3 but I thought the Father was a bit overdone. I like the carefree dialogue between the main characters in their un-carefree situations.
plot -- 2
A bit linear for my taste. Things happen pretty much as we expect and hope they will, with few real surprises. For example, it would have been nice if the daft Dad had gotten a come-uppance--perhaps been trapped in the tree with the fox to somehow keep him there, and do the wife and daughter a favour.
satisfactory ending --2 milieu --3 willing suspension of disbelief --3 unique/never been done before --2
I liked the queue, but the rest left me cold because there were too many lectures. I should say that I'm not a big fan of religion and this no doubt colours my view of the story.
Story characteristics:
character development --1.5
I believed in the humans, but not in the God character, whom I thought ought to be more awesome, unknowable, or extraordinary. For me, this ordinary god would have worked better if the piece satire.
plot --1.5
More than 1 for the queue.
satisfactory ending --1
It felt like a wish that the world would be simpler.
milieu --1
I suppose the story is more about attitudes and concepts than a milieu, so perhaps this aspect does not need to be strong.
willing suspension of disbelief --2
I happily believed in the queue.
unique/never been done before --2 writing style --2
Writing style is direct and appealing.
dialogue --1
Too much preaching and lecturing.
action --1
Not much action in this story, and that's okay for this concept.
posted
Thanks to everyone who contributed this month. As far as I can tell everyone graded one or more stories--snapper all of them, and tiergan graded several despite not having written one--so all our commitments are satisfied.
I plan to offer an October RFM, without changing any of the rules. One or two people made comments about the 3-2-1 grading but I'm inclined to keep it as is, because it was driven by the idea that we have to be betterthan published authors in order to get space in magazines and bookshelves they otherwise would probably have filled.
quote:One or two people made comments about the 3-2-1 grading but I'm inclined to keep it as is, because it was driven by the idea that we have to be betterthan published authors in order to get space in magazines and bookshelves they otherwise would probably have filled.
I just want to chime in here...I completely disagree with this "better than" premise...especially for many of the markets that many of us are submiting too...and I strongly dislike the 1-2-3 thing. This forum is already limiting since we cant post whole stories here...adding in such a rigid "rating system" makes it even harder, for me at least. You notice almost everyone added various decimals to their ratings. Personally I think a simple 1-5 or 1-10 system, with people mostly adding their own thoughts, would be more helpful.
But it is of course your show. I just thought I'd offer up my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
posted
Zac chimed and said, "Merlion wants to change the system."
"Merlion always wants to change the system," I said.
"That doesn't make him wrong."
"I like the 3-2-1, it's simple and forces choices," I said, with that feeling of already having lost the argument.
"But as he says, it didn't. Some people balked at 'better than', several scored on a decimal scale instead of the integers you envisioned--even you, yourself, stuck in a few decimals!"
"Well yeah, but--"
"So change it already."
"Okay, if you're so smart--to what?"
Zac had thoughtfully laid it out in a .txt file "so you can cut 'n paste it onto Hatrack." It said:
1-3 -- not yet ready for market, needs substantial work 4-6 -- might be ready for market, needs a little work 7-9 -- wow! ready for market!
There is no zero, no outright failure; just getting pen to paper gets you a creditable '1'. There is no ten, because there's always room to improve.
A story that's utterly fabulous in all dimensions would score straight nines; one that's wonderful except for having an ending that needs substantial work would score nines except somewhere between 1 and 3 for "satisfactory ending".
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