So for Valentine's day Annie (bless her beautiful heart) sent me an authentic Indian cookbook (which came here from India, how cool is that!?!) I've spent a couple hours looking through it and I think I've grasped a lot of the concepts and terms associated with it, but there's still a lot I don't know or understand, so now I'm asking for help.
The book is written by Indians and they try to explain everything, terms, cooking styles, to those not familiar with anything, but they don't get everything since they can't fully differentiate between what everyone knows and what just those from India know. I have a couple questions but mostly I'm hoping for general advice from those with any knowledge on the subject.
1) Atta is listed as whole-wheat flour, does normal, American, whole-wheat flour work as atta just fine?
2) There's an explanation of how to make cheese (I've had a lot of paneer cheese in my day and I like it ) but the only description of what kind of milk is: "milk". Now I normally only get skim, but I'm going to assume that this wont cut it. If I just get whole milk will that do it or do they expect something much less processed or what?
One of our Indian cookbooks describes Atta as special ground, wholemeal flour, so I would imagine that standard American whole-wheat flour would work fine.
posted
Atta flour is pretty close to whole wheat flour, so yes, substitution will work just fine, no worries. (I can't get whole wheat flour here, only atta, and yes, I've used it, and I substitute it for my whole wheat uses.)
Paneer - well, it's usually made from yoghurt, so my first question is this. . . Are you making the yoghurt first, and then making it into paneer? I mean, you can, it's just another step.
In Sri Lanka, whole milk is typically used. I've never actually seen skim available anywhere, or 1 or 2% either, so the authentic taste and texture would likely be whole milk. But you could skip a step and start from unsweetened yoghurt.
If you have any other questions, seriously, feel free to fire away. I may not have the answers, but I have access to way more people than you who would. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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The book describes how to make both yoghurt and cheese seperatly, though I didn't compare them it's possible the intro steps for cheese are the same as making yoghurt.
This is excellent! I need to pick out something to make!
Ohh, I have another one. If you were going to advice on some absolutley essential cookware and spices and other what-nots, what would it be?
posted
For Indian food, or just in general? For Indian food, you need different spices. (Get them at an Indian, Middle Eastern, or Mexican shop, in bags. Much cheaper that way; whole cloves, for instance, are almost $8 for an ounce in the little jars, and 89 cents for a 2 oz. bag of the Mexican brand.)
Cookware; well, you need a wok, a saucepan with a lid, and a frying pan, as well as some wooden utensils (spoon, rice paddle, etc.; they come in sets for a couple of $ at Target) and maybe some plastic ones, plus a ladle, a whisk, and a decent set of mixing bowls. Williams-Sonoma sells a universal lid that you can use to cover just about all pans if you find them without lids at a yard sale or something. (I don't know what you have, so I'm being basic here.) You will also need some good knives and cutting boards. I recommend the SuperBoard available at Target, and one of their knife sets if you don't want to spend too much $$. Knives are expensive, but you can get a decent, basic set for $60 or so. You will need either a blender or food processer (check yard sales for this one, as well as the pans and a grater). That should do you, at least to start with. Oh, and if you're going to bake anything, some bakeware.
posted
What's the name of the book? Where can an American get a copy? What's the deal with Curry anyway. Ooops, slipping into bad imitation of Sienfeld mode.
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posted
Also, if you're keen on getting into your Indian and Asian cooking, I can recommend a good quality, stone mortar and pestle set for grinding spices and herbs. We have two - a big and small one, and use them constantly. In Australia, at least, you can get them in most Asian supermarkets, or in the Chinatown districts of the major cities.
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posted
Curry, contrary to popular North American belief, is not from a single plant. It is actually a mix of anywhere from 5 to 15 spices. Sometimes the spices are roasted before grinding, sometimes not. They can include anything from cumin, coriander, cloves, cinnamon, black pepper, red pepper, turmeric (which gives it the yellowish color), and more. Spice combinations vary from region to region. Northern Indian curries tend to not be spicy, but southern Indian curries will burn most people! Curries in Sri Lanka are different yet, as are curries from elsewhere in Asia. There is a huge huge variance in what curries will be like from the different regions.
Some curries have oil as a base, others use yoghurt or curd, some coconut milk powder, others lemon or lime or ginger.
You can use ready-made curry powders, or you can make your own.
As far as cookware, you can use your basic North American cookware for cooking Indian. Nothing special is necessary. A mortar and pestle is handy for the purists who prefer grinding their own spices. You can buy everything already ground, but they won't be as flavorful.
posted
hobbes, see if there are any little amish cheese shops near you, they typically have good whole milk that is a bit less proccessed, but still safe. The closest one I can think of to you would be like four hours away (near goshen) but that's just because it's where my family is from. But someone said that regular whole milk should work, so you might try that. Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Good luck on your venture into Indian cooking. I adore Indian food, and we cook a heap of it. Hopefully some of it is fairly authentic - having been to India a couple of times I have a decent idea of what things should taste like.
Spice wise - I would suggest starting by stocking your cupboard with a few basics:
Cumin seeds (both whole and ground)
Coriander seeds (both whole and ground)
Fennel Seeds (both whole and ground)
Black Peppercorns
White Peppercorns
Good salt
Garam Masala
Cloves
Cardmom Pods
Ground Caradomom
Cinnamon Bark
Tumeric (ground)
If you don't want to buy so many spices, you can always just buy the whole seeds and ground them when you need ground. I find I never get the proper consistency when I do this, so have both. Mind you I am also a spice freak. I have an entire shelf in (quite big) pantry brimming and stacked. And I use them all.
I also echo the buy in bulk if you can - especially peppercorns and cumin.
Alternatively - just pick out a couple of recipes you want to do. Buy all the spices required. That should give you a decent starting base. Then just add new spices when recipes call for them.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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When at home I never eat anything I don't cook myself, I have all the basic American cookware.
quote:as well as some wooden utensils (spoon, rice paddle, etc.; they come in sets for a couple of $ at Target)
Rice paddle?
quote:Williams-Sonoma sells a universal lid that you can use to cover just about all pans
This sounds cool! How much are they? I have a saucepan but no lid for it...
quote:I recommend the SuperBoard available at Target, and one of their knife sets if you don't want to spend too much $$. Knives are expensive, but you can get a decent, basic set for $60 or so. You will need either a blender or food processer (check yard sales for this one, as well as the pans and a grater). That should do you, at least to start with. Oh, and if you're going to bake anything, some bakeware.
Well I'm not sure what the superboard is but I'm obsessed with cutting boards and have three (which is pretty good for a poor college student in his first apartment with no space ). I've also got some nice knifes, so that's no problem. I don't have a blender though, never cooked anything that needed a blender or food processor. Hmmm...
quote:What's the name of the book? Where can an American get a copy?
I've actually seen lots of Indian cookbooks here in the states, never got one before though. This one is called Prashad: Cooking with Indian Masters. It gives a list of all sorts of Indian utensils, both Indian name and a description into American cookware (as much as is possible). Thing is, they all sound expensive and bulky and I'm in a position for neither, so I wanted help as to what was necessary and what could be skipped for its American counterpart.
quote:Also, if you're keen on getting into your Indian and Asian cooking, I can recommend a good quality, stone mortar and pestle set for grinding spices and herbs
Ohh, I'm dying for one of those! They seem expensive though ... :-/
quote:As far as cookware, you can use your basic North American cookware for cooking Indian. Nothing special is necessary. A mortar and pestle is handy for the purists who prefer grinding their own spices. You can buy everything already ground, but they won't be as flavorful.
Excellent, this books seems to be very concerned with freshness, like if it wasn't fresh it would taste terrible and just not turn out. Is this just the result of being obssesed with your cooking, or is there some truth to that beyond it's just not as good?
quote:Spice wise - I would suggest starting by stocking your cupboard with a few basics: ... Garam Masala
My cookbook has a recipe on how to make that from other spices.
quote:Alternatively - just pick out a couple of recipes you want to do. Buy all the spices required. That should give you a decent starting base. Then just add new spices when recipes call for them.
This was kind of what I was planning. The dish I always order at Indian resteraunts is called (in America remember) "Masala", sometimes chicken, somtiems paneer, somtimes lamb, not important. Thing is I guess Masala just means a general spice mix, so I don't think they have anything in my book that's called this. Would anyone have an idea what it's Indian equivelant would be called? A basic curry calleed Masala plus meat?
As a reminder, there are three things tha tinhibit me from buying spices and equipment:
1) Money (Obviously) I can buy stuff or I wouldn't be asking advice on buying stuff, but I can't just go out and spend $100 on cooking supplies.
2) Volume I share a smallish kitchen with 4 other guys. I'm the only one who really cooks but all that means is that they stack everything full of pre-processed crap. I don't have an absolute ton of space to put cooking equipment.
3) Time I'm leaving come May and will have to move all this stuff probably about 1500 miles and then leave it for two years and move it back. I don't want to go out and buy a ton of stuff, use it for a few months and then leave all this brand new equipment just sitting there for two years. Plus any food I buy (spices) will have to be able to survive a two year period if I don't use them up.
Well not really, I'll probably just give all my excess to my Mom, but I'm not sure she'll want it.
posted
Hobbes, a rice paddle is a flat utensil you use to serve up steamed rice; you can also use it for stir-fry. In fact, 2 are better.
If you want a mortar and pestle, they're available at the local hispanic market 1/2 a mile down my street for less than $25... E-mail me, we may be able to arrange something.
Here's the lid: Universal Pan Lid. It says catalogue and internet only, but my husband got me one in the store when he broke my imported french enamelware lid (you know, to one of those pans that sells for $99 a piece?) that was from a garage sale, so it may vary. I love mine, it fits everything from my frying pan to my saucepan to my wok.
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posted
Oh, and you can get Garam Masala, a basic blend of Indian spices that's pre-mixed; you can use it to add flavor to almost any main dish. It's curry powder, cinnamon, and a whole bunch of other things all mixed together.
Did anyone else see the "Who Wants to Make Aloo Gobhi" extra on the Bend it Like Beckham DVD?
posted
And hey, if you want me to get a mortar and pestle for you, I can send you some smaller amounts of some of these spices to get you started (I buy them in bulk). Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
In fact, I'll do that anyway if you send me your address. *likes to encourage cooking in young people, especially young men*
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Basically just looks like potatoes with garam masala as the main spice, with coconut and ginger.
Sound like the one you have?
You could adapt to fish, vegies etc.
By the way - I'd say buy premade garam masala. It's not quite as nice as individually roasting and grinding each spice but its a heck of a lot easier, less time consuming and less messy!
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Garam masala is another spice combination like curry. It varies from region to region, and yes, you can make your own.
If you have a recipe called Chicken Masala, for example, that would be the correct English translation from Indian, so don't worry that it's not authentic - it likely is. Just give it a whirl and see what you think.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Hobbes, a rice paddle is a flat utensil you use to serve up steamed rice; you can also use it for stir-fry. In fact, 2 are better.
Ahh, OK. I don't make a lot of rice or stir-fry so I'm not framilar with that tool.
quote:Here's the lid: Universal Pan Lid. It says catalogue and internet only, but my husband got me one in the store when he broke my imported french enamelware lid (you know, to one of those pans that sells for $99 a piece?) that was from a garage sale, so it may vary. I love mine, it fits everything from my frying pan to my saucepan to my wok.
Tempting! Do you think there's any major store that would carry them on a regular basis (we're taking like Marsh and Payless, not Bloomingdales)? Shipping is free if you buy it from a store.
quote:Oh, and you can get Garam Masala, a basic blend of Indian spices that's pre-mixed; you can use it to add flavor to almost any main dish. It's curry powder, cinnamon, and a whole bunch of other things all mixed together.
OK, so it's basically a time saver.
quote:And hey, if you want me to get a mortar and pestle for you, I can send you some smaller amounts of some of these spices to get you started (I buy them in bulk). --------- In fact, I'll do that anyway if you send me your address. *likes to encourage cooking in young people, especially young men*
Well that's awful sweet of you but not necessary to encourag me, I cook at least once a day everyday, every meal I eat is a meal I cook. Pretty much entirley from scratch (I don't have enough room to store enough ingredients for anything but from scratch meals!)
I'll definitly ponder your idea about buying the motor and pestle from your store through you though, just so long as the middle-man doesn't jack up the price too much.
quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well here's a recipe for Aloo Masala
Basically just looks like potatoes with garam masala as the main spice, with coconut and ginger.
Sound like the one you have?
Similar, probably no cocunut in mine though (which of course would be easy enough to just not add).
quote:If you have a recipe called Chicken Masala, for example, that would be the correct English translation from Indian, so don't worry that it's not authentic - it likely is. Just give it a whirl and see what you think.
Ahh, see, the problem is that I don't have that recipe, just the dish itself. But I'll try to find it.
posted
If you need recipes, ask us here, or you can go to places like www.recipezaar.com and hunt there. I have access to a serious lot of Indian recipes, mostly from recipes I've downloaded, some of which I've tried.
Oh, and by the way, we're having Indian tonight. From the Indian restaurant down the street - Tamaties. Authentic. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Oh, and you can get Garam Masala, a basic blend of Indian spices that's pre-mixed; you can use it to add flavor to almost any main dish. It's curry powder, cinnamon, and a whole bunch of other things all mixed together.
Um, sorry, but no. Curry powder and garam masala are similar in that they're both a combination of a bunch of spices and it varies from area, but garam masala doesn't have curry powder as an ingredient. Unless you've come across a recipe like that, in which case it's a cheat, not authentic. I suspect you have a typo in there. Yes?[/nitpick]
While it's nice to roast and grind your own and your dish will likely taste better because of it, it's not always practical, so don't worry about it. Feel free to buy ground spices and such.
Another difference between roasted and unroasted curry powder - well, this is based on personal experience with the ready-made powders that I've bought here, and is of course subject to regional variations, but the roasted curry powder we've used has a much heavier overpowering flavor, plus it tends to be very dark in color. The unroasted curry powder is closer to the yellowish-brown curry powder you're likely used to seeing, and it has a much lighter flavor. If you have to decide between one or the other, go with the unroasted. If the package doesn't specify, but it's a yellowish brown in color, it's most likely unroasted. The unroasted is much more versatile.
As a side note, it's possible to eat nothing but Indian food every day of the week for a year and still not have the same dish twice. Huge huge huge regional variations. Just thought I'd stress that in case it hasn't come through clearly enough. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
quidscribis, pre-made garam masala (imported) lists pre-mixed curry powder as an ingredient. At least the kind available in bulk at my spice store does. And it tastes almost as good as home-made, just not as fresh. It's my tummy, don't stress if I take shortcuts with it, okay? I won't make you eat it.
quote:I'll definitly ponder your idea about buying the motor and pestle from your store through you though, just so long as the middle-man doesn't jack up the price too much.
I won't charge a handling fee at all; I can check out the price for you and find out exactly.
As for the spices and encouragement, I should clarify: I knew you cooked at least some of the time, I just like to reward that in young people by sending them cooking-related presents. I do it for my almost-step-sister's husband, too, for instance.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
You can get a 4" marble morter and pestle at Target for $19.99 Or a teeny-tiny ceramic one (which should be big enough for spices for one person) for $8.
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posted
I ate at an Indian place once and had this great dish. It was chicken chunks in a really mild creamy tomato sauce. I forgot what it's called and it makes me sad. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
posted
kq - Okay, I'll forgive you. No, seriously, if it has curry powder as an ingredient, it's not authentic, or it's mixed by non-Indians, or something like that. But as long as it works, well, I guess we can forgive them, eh?
Sarcasticmuppet - um, that could be one of about a couple of dozen recipes. Could it be this one?
quote:Butter Chicken
1 lb chicken breast - cubed 1 onion - diced 2 chilli peppers - chopped 1/4 cup ginger and garlic puree 4 tablespoon curry powder 1/2 cup plain yoghurt 3 tablespoon margarine 1 cup stewed tomatoes 1/2 cup evaporated milk
1. Mix curry powder, ginger puree and yoghurt together and salt to taste.
2. Add chicken and place in 350 degree oven.
3. Bake for 30 mins and then remove from oven.
4. Saute onions and pepper in margarine in a large skillet until soft.
5. Add stewed tomatoes.
6. Cook untila sauce is formed, add chicken.
7. Slowly add milk and simmer on low heat for 30 mins.
8. Remove and serve with toasted pita bread and basmati rice.
Or another recipe for it. . .
quote:Murgh Makhani (Butter Chicken)
150 ml plain yoghurt 50 gm ground almonds 1 1/2 teaspoon chilli powder 1/4 teaspoon crushed bay leaves 1/4 teaspoon ground cloves 1/4 teaspoon ground cinnamon 1 teaspoon garam masala 4 green cardamom pod 1 teaspoon ginger pulp 1 teaspoon garlic pulp 400 gm canned tomatoes 1 1/4 teaspoon tsp salt 1 kg chicken, skinned, boned and cubed 6 tablespoon butter 1 tablespoon corn oil 2 medium onions-sliced 2 tablespoon chopped fresh coriander 4 tablespoon light cream coriander sprigs
Put the yoghurt, ground almonds, all the dry spices, ginger, garlic, tomatoes and salt into a mixing bowl and blend together thoroughly.
Put the chicken into a large mixing bowl and pour over the yoghurt mixture. Set aside.
Melt together the butter and oil in a medium karahi (wok) or deep round-bottomed frying pan (skillet). Add the onions and fry for about 3 minutes.
Add the chicken mixture and stir-fry for 7-10 minutes.
Stir in about half the coriander and mix well.
Pour over the cream and stir in well. Bring to the boil. Seve garnished with the remaining chopped coriander and coriander springs.
This is what comes to mind first, assuming that the creamy bit was yoghurt, which is most likely. If it's Butter Chicken you're talking about, oh yeah, it's nummy! I had some a week and a half ago and now I want more . . .
I haven't tried either recipe yet, so I can't recommend one over the other.
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posted
I've made paneer twice. I used whole milk both times, and it turned out fine.
As far as a starter, I used lemon juice the first time and yogurt the second. The yogurt made better cheese, but it was home-made yogurt, and I don't know how commercial would work out. The lemon juice worked fine as well.
Posts: 1357 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I make garam masala using commercially ground spices and mixing them together - it's not as authentic as grinding them together yourself, but it still comes out tasty.
A garam masala recipe I use: 3/4 teaspoon ground cinnamon 1/4 teaspoon ground cloves 1/4 teaspoon ground cumin 1 cardamom pod (remove the seeds from the pod and crush)
My husband found an excellent prepared curry powder that we used for a while, but it got bugs in it, cause I mostly mix my own curries and rarely use the pre-mixed curry powder. So I looked at the ingredients on the can before I chucked it and made my own curry powder (for use in the few recipes I have that call for "curry powder"). One thing I found was that the commericial powder had way too many spices in it - no authentic Indian recipe I have ever followed had that many spices in it, so I cut back on the number of spice ingredients when I made my own curry powder.
One last tip: Many spices, especially ground coriander, lose their flavor and color really quickly at room temperature, so I store many of my spices in the fridge or freezer (especially if I buy in large quantities, or don't use them up quickly). Red spices such as paprika and cayenne darken in color at room temperature. To maintain a nice red color, refrigerate.
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
BTW, if you want to be more authentic on my ground spice mixes, you can certainly start with the whole spices, in the same general proportions, and grind them together.
I guess my spices stay pretty flavorful, even ground, because I refrigerate or freeze them in tightly closed containers.
With working and kids, I always had to take convenience shortcuts. Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:I won't charge a handling fee at all; I can check out the price for you and find out exactly.
As for the spices and encouragement, I should clarify: I knew you cooked at least some of the time, I just like to reward that in young people by sending them cooking-related presents. I do it for my almost-step-sister's husband, too, for instance.
Try to remind me about this on Monday, I'm doing finance evaluation then and I'll get back to you. That's so nice!
quote:I've made paneer twice. I used whole milk both times, and it turned out fine.
Excellent!
quote:BTW, if you want to be more authentic on my ground spice mixes, you can certainly start with the whole spices, in the same general proportions, and grind them together.
I guess my spices stay pretty flavorful, even ground, because I refrigerate or freeze them in tightly closed containers.
I don't think I have that kind of refigerator space. Or freezer.
posted
Well, the spice mixtures work out pretty flavorful, for most of the spices, even if you don't refrigerate.
The one ground spice that I have found it is a MUST to refrigerate is coriander. Ground coriander seems to lose its flavor and fragance almost overnight.
quote:Mind you I am also a spice freak. I have an entire shelf in (quite big) pantry brimming and stacked. And I use them all.
posted
Hobbes, you don't need to refrigerate. Just put them in a heavy-weight Ziplock (or store brand equivalent), close part-way, suck excess air out, and seal completely. Instant vacu-seal!
And sure, I'll check out the price and e-mail you on Mon.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Also, if you find a small coffee grinder at a yard sale, dismantle it and wash it really well, it makes an excellent spice grinder.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I read online reviews and decided on this particular book, and then shopped around for the best deal. It's available from several places via amazon, but the cheapest one came from India. I think it's out of print here.
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posted
Hey, if that book is that good, I can see if I can find it here. Most of the books sold in the bookstores here are published in India.
If I do find it, who wants one? And, rather than sending me money ($4 US to cash a cheque here, darn it!) we could do an exchange. There are some books I want that aren't available here. . .
Edit to add: before we get too excited over this, though, I should check availabililty and prices.
posted
Oh, some advice when using Indian recipes (as in, from India): some call for "fresh coriander". That means cilantro. Coriander and cilantro come from the same plant, but coriander (usually sold ground) is the seed, and cilantro is the leafy part and stem.
We went out for Indian food tonight. We began with meat samosas (filled with ground beef and lamb); the baby got a couple of spoonfuls of the filling to keep her occupied while I spooned chicken and apple dinner into her. She loved it. (They also gave us that crispy fried crunchy thing, I forget what it's called, with chutneys.) For dinner, we had a lot of food: tandoori chicken, lamb korma, aloo gobhi, and garlic naan (all, of course, with basmati rice), and accompanied by mango lahssis. I am stuffed, and we have leftovers for lunch tomorrow. Yay!
posted
KQ, have you checked prciing/avliability, I think I can afford a mortar pestle and some spices. Either post here and I'll e-mail you details or e-mail me. (Sorry this isn't Monday, I've been incredibly busy :-|)
posted
Yeah, um, I forgot yesterday was Valentine's Day. So I didn't get to the store, and today it's really hot, so I don't want to take the baby for a walk. I'll e-mail you when I make it. Sorry.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Thanks to this thread (and the fact it was stinking hot 42 degrees yesterday and we didn't want to cook) we went out for Indian last night.
Found a new Indian resteraunt. Close to us.
We had vegetable pakoras, lamb samosas, shikh kebabs, tandoori chicken, butter chicken, palak paneer, raita and garlic naan.
We made pigs of ourselves. We do have a *lot* of leftovers though. I know what I'm having for lunch today!
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posted
Hobbes, I sent you an e-mail, but I forgot to tell you that Fiesta does carry atta flour, and fairly cheaply. That is all.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Hobbes, I have made paneer a couple of times and I'd recommend against it unless you have some milk thats gone sour. A gallon of milk yields about a cup of cheese, which just doesn't pay off unless you've got some cheap source of milk.
Since you are living in a college town, there is probably and Indian grocer in the area. If you can't find it, ask an Indian student where they go (I'm sure there must be quite a few Indian graduate students in your Engineering college). If you can't find paneer, extra firm tofu makes a pretty good substitute. My Indian students recommended this substitution to me and it is very close. I can taste a subtle difference between paneer and tofu but my husband can't tell the difference. Once its put into a spicy Indian dish, the subtle difference between tofu and paneer is lost on nearly everyone.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I missed this thread! ElJay and I went to a grocery with all that stuff looking for Henna, we could've picked it up.
I did buy Ghee. I will never again try to make my own. That was hard.
One tip: Anything that calls for yogurt, don't use lowfat or non-fat yogurt. It doesn't work. After spending hours on my Aloo, it was basically inedible.
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Try to remind me about this on Monday, I'm doing finance evaluation then and I'll get back to you. 
