quote: I fill my car with 50 dollars worth of gas. I drive to the store to buy a 6 dollar bag of beef jerky. It takes me 3 dollars to go 14 miles to buy the jerky. I eat it all before I get home so I must go back to the store to buy more jerky for 6 dollars. Again it costs me 3 dollars in gas. I finish the jerky just as I arrive at home only to get an upset stomach from 1/2 pound of dried beef swelling in my stomach. I now have to spend another 3 dollars in gas to buy a 7 dollar bottle of Rolaids. This 1 hour of my life cost me 28 dollars. With the price of gas these days I think its time to give up on beef jerky. Another pleasure gone due to gas prices. Joe Stain, Atlanta, Georgia
Please somebody tell me that this "Joe Stain" is actually a parody someone sent in as a joke. Most of them aren't as bad as that, but his complaint is totally ridiculous on more levels than I really want to reply to.
A lot of the people who emailed in say they now try to run all their errands at once, do all their shopping in one day, because the gas costs so much. So? I've always done that, because I hate making multiple trips to the store! A lot of these emails are just reinforcing the opinion that high gas prices will finally make people start conserving a little. I was honestly surprised to see what some* of the people considered "sacrifices" to save gas money.
*Please note that I don't mean families who are barely scraping buy with just their commute to work. I'm referring to people complaining about doing all their shopping in one trip instead of going to the mall every day of the week.
posted
There was a time when I did all my errands at once; it's how I was raised.
After having a baby or two I had to adjust and realize that if I got out and got ONE errand done today and ONE errand done tomorrow, I was doing pretty good. Just trying to get myself and kids ready to go out around the baby's feeding/napping schedule made it impossible to get everywhere I needed to go at once. And it was torture to run them ragged. So I gave up and just did as much as I could do.
I have been consciously more conservative these days because of the gas prices. My youngest is now 2, so it's not quite as hard to go a couple places instead of just one ... but I still don't get everything done in one trip. I'll do it when I can, but I won't stress about it until then.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
That last one is pretty wacked out too...don't they check what they post for all the world to see?
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Obviously a spoof of complaints he's heard, but most of those other complainers don't make as much sense as JoeStain's parody.
Witness Jim-Me proclaiming the natural right of people to pollute as much as they want and waste as much fuel as they want driving a vehicle 40times their own weight at 1950s sports-car acceleration. Is there any likely payoff in explaining how folks driving low-powered high-economy sub-compacts (as well as most other drivers) are directly paying for the Hummer/etc driver's fuel use? Let alone more complex matters such as engine displacement, car mileage estimates, and hybridization?
Very close to home, a friend routinely drives 6blocks in her brand new overweight-and-still-overhorsepowered Lexus sports-coupe to the fastfood joint down the street for a sandwich and a soda, then drives back with them. She also routinely drives 6blocks in the opposite direction to exercize by walking in the neighborhood park, then drives back. And complains about rising gasoline prices.
quote:I personally hope gas prices reach as much as $5 a gallon. This will keep the idiots off the road (at least those between 16 and 25). And it's still a lot less than in most European countries. A substantial price increase is long overdue. Frederic Paulson, Naperville, Illinois
Cute. High gas prices get those dangerous kiddies off the road! They hit $5 dollars a gallon, social security won't be enough to cover the cost and we can keep all those idiots (at least those between 60 and 80) off the road.
quote:Witness JimMe proclaiming the natural right of people to pollute as much as they want and waste as much fuel as they want driving a vehicle 40times their own weight at 1950s sports-car acceleration. Is there any likely payoff in explaining how folks driving low-powered high-economy sub-compacts (as well as most other drivers) are directly paying for the Hummer/etc driver's fuel use?
Wow, aspectre, you really do like to make crap up about people, don't you?
Do those folks driving low-powered sub-compacts happen to have 5 kids they need to cart around?
There might be payoff in acting like a civil human being. Why don't you try that for a couple of weeks.
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quote:posted by aspectre: Witness JimMe proclaiming the natural right of people to pollute as much as they want and waste as much fuel as they want driving a vehicle 40times their own weight at 1950s sports-car acceleration.
Either I misread something, or that's quite the misrepresentation, aspectre. Can you post specific quotes to back up that interpretation?
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posted
Read the exchange again, Dagonee. We weren't talking about parents hauling around their five kids, or even one child and the family dog and some groceries. We were talking about one individual making his daily commute / daily rounds all by his lonesome little self in a gas hog.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Even if that is true, it doesn't justify, "witness JimMe proclaiming the natural right of people to pollute as much as the want and waste as much feul as they want..."
What I basically got out of Jim-Me's posts was that in our cries for more environmental protection, we shouldn't neglect improvements that are being, or can be made. If he were actually what you claim, I highly doubt he'd be considering shelling out an extra 12-16 grand for a hybrid.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Read the exchange again, Dagonee. We weren't talking about parents hauling around their five kids, or even one child and the family dog and some groceries. We were talking about one individual making his daily commute / daily rounds all by his lonesome little self in a gas hog.
No, Jim-Me was responding to your complaints about what hybrid technology was being used on. He even quoted it for you:
quote:Car manufacturors are being slammed because most of their hybridization is being used to increase horsepower within their most popular existing vehicle lines, not to increase gas mileage.
posted
My complaints? Make ya a deal: Explain to readers how drivers who are more caring in their choices are directly paying for the Hummer/etc driver's fuel use, and I'll parse out that exchange.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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The complaints you posted, that Jim-Me quoted. Your inability to accurately recount the exchange begins to make sense.
quote:Make ya a deal: explain to readers how drivers who are more caring in their choices are directly paying for the Hummer/etc driver's fuel use, and I'll parse out that exchange.
How about you just stop making stuff up about people?
I can read at least as well as you, so I don't really need your help parsing out the exchange.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
aspectre....anyone who is even vaguely familiar with your posts in the past few months will know that you get off on being an ass....you have even bragged about it in 3 threads in the last few weeks.
Not that we really needed to hear it, we could tell without you spelling it out.
So lets stop pretending that what was said actually matters......you are going to be a jerk about it one way or another.
BTW, I read very well, and what you are arguing ISN'T what Jim-Me was saying at all. You were trying to make it seem like it was even then, and it went over about as well then as now.
In case you haven't noticed, what you think about what other people drive doesn't matter in the least. People have the right to do what they want, and to be honest I think we would all be better off driving hybrid SUV's than what most of us drive now.
They at least have more right to determine what they drive than you do....
If YOU want to drive a rollerskate powered by hot air, feel free. Judging by your posts here I know you would never run out of gas (or fuel, as it may be), and would beat most of us off the line as well. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
whoop-dee-doo Ya just derailed this thread cuz ya like to play flamewars. Now, how about writing something on topic that's useful or interesting?
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Very close to home, a friend routinely drives 6blocks in her brand new overweight-and-still-overhorsepowered Lexus sports-coupe to the fastfood joint down the street for a sandwich and a soda, then drives back with them. She also routinely drives 6blocks in the opposite direction to exercize by walking in the neighborhood park, then drives back. And complains about rising gasoline prices.
Drivers who are more caring in their choices are directly paying for the Hummer/etc driver's fuel use.
posted
I drive a pickup, and it doesn't get great gas mileage....not horrible, but not good.
I can't afford anything else, and that is that. It isn't a Lexus, or a SUV, but a lot of the newer cars have BOTH better gas milage AND more power.
I have no problem with a lot of people who own them.
I don't ever want to hear someone who owns a Hummer complain about gas prices though.
But if gas costs X, and they buy their gas themselves...
Then I should have NO say in it, unless they are stupid enough to complain to me about their gas costs.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
No, Kwea, that is not that. By driving your old truck, you are sparing the economy from the energy costs and the environment from the pollution costs of manufacturing a new car. And due to the way money runs through the economy, the manufacturing process itself is the lesser part of the total fuel and pollution costs that the purchase of a new car causes. So unless your truck is dangerous to drive or fuming/dripping noxiously -- or your repair bills are high enough and often enough to make car payments look attractive -- driving around in your old truck is more environmentally sound than needlessly replacing your truck with the cleanest and most fuel efficient new car that can be purchased.
posted
"But if gas costs X, and they buy their gas themselves..." ...those who conscientiously care about their consumer choices are still paying for those who are wasteful due to the increase in marginal costs caused by extra demand.
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: "But if gas costs X, and they buy their gas themselves..." ...those who conciously care about their consumer choices are still paying for those who are wasteful due to the marginal costs caused by extra demand.
So...if we don't all buy a Prius, we're evil, evil creatures?
I have a v6 Passat with four wheel drive. I buy Premium. I am a horrible person; I should go buy a hybrid Civic right now.
posted
I find it odd that the difference between regular, whatever-the-middle-is, and premium (87, 89, 92?) is still about 10 cents*. This, despite the fact that gas prices have doubled where I live over the past 5 years.
That tells me that the difference between the grades is either non-existant, or have miniscule differences in production costs.
Or that the gas companies are making so much money that it doesn't matter to them.
*per grade, of course.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Why not cry about the cost of tomato's as well...all those damn inconsiderate people making pasta every night, not to mention those evil people who prefer OJ...raising the cost of oranges.
We pay more in TAXES on gas than we do in actual costs (or at least we did in recent history....not so sure about these days), so I find that argument to be almost completely worthless.
You could make the same argument about almost ANYTHING that has a market value, man.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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"So...if we don't all buy a Prius, we're evil, evil creatures?
It would be ridiculous to buy two Priuses when two drivers would have to transport a 6member family (including pets) on a regular basis using two vehicles instead of a minivan/etc which could contain everybody. It would also be ridiculous to buy two minivans when one vehicle is normally used by a single individual to commute to&from work.
Being unaware isn't the same as being evil. If it were, most of us have committed a great deal of evil.
"I have a v6 Passat...I am a horrible person; I should go buy a hybrid Civic right now."
Because of the energy and pollution costs of manufacturing a new car, etc, you should use your v6Passat as long as possible. However, you should also treat your car well to maximize its usefulness to yourself in the long term. And for the possibility of a future need to change vehicles, so that whoever owns it after you can use that v6Passat to its maximum lifetime.
Things are never so "either/or" clear in our choices. Often, the good is in choosing that which causes the least harm in the long term. And the evil is in choosing that which causes the least benefit for others in the long term.
posted
I bought my car new, and I CHOSE my car. I actively decided against buying a hybrid even though my car has higher costs in gas. So in my case, it's not that I was unaware or ignorant. It's that I decided that I wanted something else.
So apparently, since I'm buying more gas than I could be if I were driving a car that WASN'T a four wheel drive v6, it is my fault that gas prices are high.
posted
Definitely follow your manual's instructions, pH. My parents had a car that required 89, and it seemed to get worse mpg when I used 87 before I was informed about it. Hard to say for sure though. It's just a suspicion I have.
posted
Yep, pH, high gas prices are your fault to the extent that you got "more car than ya need" or use it more often than necessary, as it is the fault of everyone who bought "more car than they need" or use them more often than necessary.
Even though I've been fairly concientious and ever more so approaching the present, I've gotcha so hands-down beat in wasting fuel that it'll take a long time for you to catch up. Most especially because my higher-than-average lifetime-so-far use of aviation fuel has also added to the longterm increase in the cost of gasoline.
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And who is to determine how much car I "need?" You?
Who's to say I don't have other considerations much more pressing than gas milage?
Juxtapose, I know exactly what you mean! Whenever I evacuate and there's no premium available, only plus, my car doesn't seem to run as well. It's weird.
By the way, what does it mean about the engine "knocking?" What does that feel like? Or is it a sound?
posted
aspectre, I don't mean to attack you or anything, but I'm a little confused as to how you can rag on these people for being "ridiculous" and driving unnecessary cars and then say you've "wasted" more fuel than most of us.
(And just a note, Juxtapose, that was libel not slander. Slander's spoken. Oh, man, how that was driven into my head by my Con law prof...)
Posts: 866 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
God forbid anyone should be required to GASP! Ride a bike or walk!
I live in Davis California, the Bike capital of America. We are actually in contention as the bike capital of the world, but there are several chinese and thai cities that give us a run for our money in bikes-per-capita. My point is that even in an obsessively bikey town like Davis, where you can't kick a rock without it knocking over a row of parked bicycles, where every building has more bike parking than car parking (more by far), the drivers are ridiculous.
People, like my roomie, drive the half mile to the giant student parking lot and then walk the quarter mile to class. The affair takes 20 minutes, but on my bike I can make the whole trip in six, and park at the door, and its FREE! Still people drive everywhere, and I will NEVER understand what is so aweful about getting a little excercise, maybe even alot of exercise. I even do my grocery shopping on my bike sometimes; it limits the hauls I can make, but I can go any time I want, I never have to hastle with parking.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Orincoro, there are plenty of cities in which biking or walking are not options. I cannot bike to the movies. I cannot bike to the hardware store. I can sort of bike to the grocery store, but then I can't buy all that many groceries. I can't bike to the mall. I can't bike to Best Buy. I pretty much can't walk or bike anywhere that I need to go unless it's the drugstore, a sandwich shop, or school. Or the hairdresser or something. On top of that, I am very uncomfortable traveling about at night unless I am in a car.
There are also plenty of people who live in rural areas or suburbs who have to drive to get to most places.
posted
Confessing ain't bragging, Celaeno. (And on an entirely different matter, also to Kwea.) I think that pH has been open enough about her travels that it's a fairly safe for me to guesstimate that her lifetime fuel use is still considerably less than my lifetime fuel use. I've lifetimed more than she has. And until a relatively short time ago -- pH was probably already excited that she'd be able to legally drive soon -- I hadn't even given any real thought to the amount of air travel that I've done. Aviation fuel counts in the total amount of crude oil pumped then refined: eg airlines were squeezed last year by aviation fuel refining capacity converted over to gasoline for the US shortfall. So my flying counts toward my degree of responsibility for the rise of fuel prices, etc.
My lifetime ratios of walking miles to car miles and of bicycling miles to car miles are probably the highest (or*near) of anyone on this forum. With a higher probability that I've walked more miles for errands and to nearby recreation and bicycled more miles for errands, to recreation, and on regular commutes than anyone on this forum. My walking miles as a tourist is probably higher than that of anyone here who isn't strongly into hiking as a sport. My bicycle mileage for tour(ist)ing is probably higher than that of anyone here who isn't strongly into sports bicycling. That was bragging.
* Had to put in that "or near" because: From my experience as a Manhattanite, NYC folks can get along fine without a car, except some taxi service for emergencies. Same for large sections of the SanFrancisco BayArea. Though the specific "where ya live" has more of an effect than in NYC. Orinoco is at Davis, and appears to have a Davis heart. Synesthesia appears to walk or mass transit nearly everywhere she goes. Rabbit seems to have the same general attitude toward using alternatives to cars as I do. And plaid's general lifestyle nearly hollers that he treads more lightly on the environment than I do. There are a few others; but they mentioned their habits long enough ago that I don't remember enough details to guesstimate their overall transportation choices.
posted
For the record, I do, in fact, haul my five kids to school and daycare before then proceeding alone, for about half of my total drive, to work. My total one-way trip is approximately 15 miles, about 8 of which I drive solo in an 8 passenger vehicle-- a '99 Mecury Sable which I bought used with 104k miles on it for $3950. Its emissions are clean and it gets about 19-20 miles to the gallon on average around town-- better than the Kia Sedona I previously owned and comparable to the '97 Grand Caravan which I unfortunately totalled, but was probably the best all around vehicle I have ever owned.
Were I rich enough to afford a second car and if I could park it overnight at the day care center, then perhaps I could make aspectre happy. If I didn't need to take the kids to school and day care I could make him very happy indeed because I'd be driving a $1200 scooter, getting upward of 120 mpg, and leaving the station wagon in the garage for family trips and rainy days. As it is, however, this is yet another very good example of what I *was* talking about in that thread-- how some environmental activists' refusal to be satisfied casts the entire movement in a poor light and, as Dagonee summarized so well in that thread, calls their sincerity into question.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I wish to high heaven that where I live had a better mass transit system. Taking a bus is nice, but when I have to be at the movies in 15 minutes, it's not really convenient to take the bus. I'd have to leave 45 minutes earlier than usual and wait that same amount of time to get back. And quite frankly, 90 minutes of wait time just to take a bus just isn't worth it for movies. So I drive, and usually am carting four or five people with me.
If Meto Detroit had a subway, I'd take it EVERYWHERE. I'd love to hop on a sub and take it into Detroit for a game, or spend time at the casino or catch a show. I'd take it to work, to the movies to school (if it reached that far) or to wherever else I needed to go, and I'd garage my car for everything other than long road trip vacations. It's been a wish of mine for years to get a subway started in Metro Detroit, but it will never happen, and the bus system here isn't uniform in all cities.
So I have to drive most places. Going over to a friends' house means I can walk or roller blade or what not, but anything further than that requires a car.
It's not through lack of caring though, there just aren't any other mass transit options in the Metro area. (Barring the People Mover actually IN Detroit, but that thing is a joke 90% of the time).
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by aspectre: brand new overweight-and-still-overhorsepowered Lexus sports-coupe
while it is certainly not environmentally friendly to do so, I would point out that "overhorsepowered" does not apply to a sports coupe, from the standpoint of making it a better sports coupe.
While this may seem flippant it is actually very relevant to what I was getting at: you are speaking as if power is bad per se. That is nonsense. Given the same engine, increased efficiency will increase power as well, especially the very important and useful power at low rpms and speeds.
It is possible to improve both power and efficiency of a drivetrain. People who do so should be applauded, not denigrated.
People who do complain of that accomplishment come off as being against power, rather than for efficiency. This does considerable harm to your public perception.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:She also routinely drives 6blocks in the opposite direction to exercize by walking in the neighborhood park, then drives back. And complains about rising gasoline prices.
I drive to my park to walk too, what's wrong with it? The track there is level, compared to my neighborhood which isn't, there are leash laws, it's a pleasant walk, and I know exactly how much I'm walking. The kids can play at the playground in the middle of the track so I can exercise and still keep an eye on them.
But even when they're at school and I'm by myself, I don't see a single thing wrong with driving to the park to exercise. It's a safe, pleasant place to walk and I used to meet other moms there so I had company while I exercised. I certainly don't think anyone deserves to be demonized for driving six blocks to a park to exercise.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: God forbid anyone should be required to GASP! Ride a bike or walk!
Orincoro...This is how it is in the real world: I don't have the luxury - and it is a luxury - to be able to walk or ride a bike or take public transport. I take care of my 81-year-old mother who a) does not get around well enough to take public transport or walk anywhere, and b) has serious enough memory problems that I cannot leave her alone at home for the hour or two it would take to take a bus or walk to a grocery store, do my shopping, and get back home. So, when I do something as radical as go grocery shopping (which is practically the only place I ever get to go these days - if I'm lucky, we go out to dinner once in awhile and I get a library trip maybe once a week), I have to take the car.
Furthermore, there's a budget for gasoline in the household. I can afford $20 for gas every two weeks. That's it (and even if I had more money to spend for gasoline, I wouldn't be inclined to do it). If that gas gets used up, we don't go anywhere at all for a few days. Sometimes, the car does not even move for three or four or five days. Fortunately, we moved into town a little over a year ago, and I've got everything I need within three to five miles, so I don't actually use that much gasoline and I can make the amount of gasoline $20 will buy stretch for two weeks.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
It does seem to me that you people are kind of confusing 'I need' and 'it would be a bit inconvenient to do without this', or even 'I wanna'.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Well, KoM, I *could* put my older three kids on a school bus, but that would require getting five kids and myself up, dressed, fed and ready to go by 7am (when the bus stops nearest our house). While this in itself is not insurmountable, just a ROYAL pain, there is the small issue of having to actually be home when they get off that same bus at 3:30, which would require me to leave work about 3:15, which would leave me fired, which would leave me unable to feed the aforementioned children or, in fact, pay the rent which gives them a dry place to sleep to begin with (thereby, presumably solving the problem of getting them out of bed at 5:45).
So when I say "need" I do not mean "it would be a bit inconvenient to do without this." But hey, the earth would be just a little bit safer for those adorable penguins in that movie last year If I gave up my station wagon... oh and incidentally utterly failed to provide for my kids. Yep, clearly the responsible thing to do.
Disclaimer: there may have been some sarcasm in the preceding post.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: It does seem to me that you people are kind of confusing 'I need' and 'it would be a bit inconvenient to do without this', or even 'I wanna'.
Oh, sheesh...exactly what part of my mother does not get around well enough to do public transport and she cannot be left alone sounds like "it would be a bit inconvenient" to walk or take the bus? That was just uncalled for, KoM.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
It takes me at least twenty minutes to DRIVE to the mall or the movies. At least half an hour for Best Buy. At least half an hour for the hardware store. And it requires the use of the interstate.
posted
It doesn't occur to any of you people that there might exist apartments a wee bit closer to any of these places? Even in America, there's no actual law saying you have to live an hour's drive from the nearest grocery store. And really, if your mother is so ill she cannot be left alone, then it's not a one-woman job to tend her anyway.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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