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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Kings (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Kings
aeolusdallas
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I am really suprised that no one on this site is talking about NBC's Kings.
I really liked it. They managed to modernise the tale while staying pretty close to the original story. What did everyone else think?

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Scott R
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I watched about 45 minutes. It was all right.
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The decision to (apparently) make Jonathan a homosexual was predictable.
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It didn't really entice me enough to continue to watch it.

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aeolusdallas
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Well it's not like there isn't an obvious argument to be made. I am not saying Jonathan was gay but it is a defensible argument.
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adenam
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Getting anoited king with axel grease is hilarious [ROFL]

I really liked it and will keep watching.

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adenam
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quote:
Originally posted by aeolusdallas:
Well it's not like there isn't an obvious argument to be made. I am not saying Jonathan was gay but it is a defensible argument.

As defensible as David being gay (though it doesn't look like that will happen).
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aeolusdallas
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I am pretty sure the way they are going to play this is that David will be completely straight. Jack will either fall in love with him or ally with him and warn him that Silas is going to have him killed. All in all a clever compromise.
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Raymond Arnold
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What is this based off of? And is it a TV show, TV movie or miniseries?
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aeolusdallas
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Kings is a new series on NBC is a loose retelling of the life of David from the bible but set in a world with modern trappings.
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Christine
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I watched about half and found myself pretty bored with it.
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Irami Osei-Frimpong
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I just saw it. The chicken/egg breakfast speech as delightful. I watched the scene twice and am still tickled. I also liked watching Silas lash out at David on the stairs after Silas was blackmailed into continuing the war. It was a good moment because at that moment, David was both naive and absolutely right. And way Silas spat out the Royal "We" was INSANE. I also appreciated that Jack wasn't an incompetent commander, and that Silas actually removed his back-up in order to provoke an attack, not knowing that he would put his son in danger.

I don't like Jack as a black hat, it's too easy. I like that Jack's gay, but there isn't a need to make him evil, self-absorbed and gay. It may be enough to ruin the entire show, but I hope not.
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That said, I love the idea and I respect NBC for putting it on. I've skimmed the old testament, but most of what I know I've learned from Heller's "God Knows," which I think is just fine. But having that as my background, I can't help but think that the story should be told from David's POV in flashbacks as Absalom raises a rival army.

[ March 17, 2009, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]

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Raymond Arnold
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I just watched it. I don't have the biblical background to know what's taken directly and what was changed, but it was definitely interesting overall. I really liked the chicken/egg comment (I've tried to explain that to people whenever the metaphor is brought up, but people tend not to get it).

How long is the series supposed to run for? The wikipedia page about David makes it look like the story's about a fourth of the way done. Then again, the actual Moses story is only a few pages long and Prince of Egypt stretched that out to 2 hours.

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Lyrhawn
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I caught the second half of the first episode and want to watch it all the way through. It looks interesting, and there is certainly a lot to do with it, but if it ends up being too soap opera like, it'll end up turning me off pretty fast.
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Tatiana
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What was the chicken/egg comment?
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Irami Osei-Frimpong
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Watch the show; you can find it here:

www.hulu.com

It's a great message that touches on evolution, creation, uniqueness and the divine right of kings all in the same soliloquy.

I think I appreciate the seriousness with which kingship is treated in the show. It's not Shakespeare, but how many people really take the divine right of kings seriously in a political sense in 21st century America. It's a stretch even in religious contexts: Whatever happens before the white smoke appears at the Vatican, I can't help but think it looks more like a jury room or CSPAN than the Pentecost scene from Acts.

The show not only has a depict a drama, it has to motivate and play upon a complicated ontological and political world that really doesn't match up with our own, but where the characters actions and words make sense to serious people. Big Love can get away with it because Bill is a rube.

Bravo to NBC for trying.

[ March 17, 2009, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]

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JennaDean
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I just saw it. Wasn't going to bother, because I don't think they did a very good job with the pre-show advertising; I don't generally get involved with dramas and it looked like just another soap opera to me. Thanks for the buzz, Hatrack.

I really enjoyed the first episode. I love that it was based off of David and that there's a king who believes he was divinely appointed and also lives in the real, modern world with all that implies. I love David already, which is completely appropriate for who that character should be. Which means I suppose that when we get to Bathsheba he's going to break my heart....

As for Jack:
quote:
I don't like Jack as a black hat, it's too easy. I like that Jack's gay, but there isn't a need to make him evil, self-absorbed and gay. It may be enough to ruin the entire show, but I hope not.
I agree. I don't mind him being gay; I figured they'd go that direction. But he and David supposedly were really close. At this point I can't see how they're going to trust and love each other unless Jack changes. I hope he does. Seems there are enough other villains to fight against, they don't need Jack to be one.
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Christine
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OK, I decided to at least finish the first episode and I think the second half got better. I may give it another episode. I'm still not sold. It really depends upon where they take a lot of the little threads they've started.
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JennaDean
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That wife - I guess she's the queen - she's good. I really believed her whole "You know how I don't like to get involved in politics!" spiel until about 3/4 of the way through.
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aeolusdallas
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That stunt the queen pulled with the cell phone completely blindside me
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JennaDean
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Exactly.
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Armoth
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After swallowing how un-biblical it is, i really enjoyed the pilot.

The acting is phenomenal and deserves watching regardless of the story.

I think we're all agreed on Jack. No need to make him the bad guy. I'm more interested in Reverend Samuels and the interplay between man and God.

David's bravery makes him great, but Silas doesn't seem to be too bad a guy either. What's all this garbage with the King's brother-in-law? I

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adenam
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So whose watching it tonight?
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Raymond Arnold
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I'll be watching it sometime over the course of the week on Hulu.
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adenam
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same
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Armoth
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I enjoyed this week's episode. I think they need to give us a bit more character development than they are giving us, but the religious symbolism is enjoyable.
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adenam
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PIGEONS!!!
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Armoth
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I was actually really impressed when Rev. Samuels tells David that dreams are 1/60th prophecy. It's something out of the Talmud. Means the writers do their research.
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Raymond Arnold
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Latest episode impressed me a lot. It gave me a more visceral understanding of exactly how complicated the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is.
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Lisa
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It is getting better and better. And Rev. Samuel's temple looked a lot more like a synagogue than a church, which was kind of cool.

And Raymond, the ep wasn't even slightly parallel to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It was parallel to the internal conflict in Israel between a government that's all realpolitik and a citizenry that is largely ideological.

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Raymond Arnold
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It was an episode about people living on land that was conquered from other people, which was later returned to the people it was conquered from. This seems relevant to both sides of the conflict to me.

EDIT: Perhaps more accurately, yes, it's a parallel of internal conflict within Israel, but that conflict existed explicitly BECAUSE of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
It was an episode about people living on land that was conquered from other people, which was later returned to the people it was conquered from. This seems relevant to both sides of the conflict to me.

EDIT: Perhaps more accurately, yes, it's a parallel of internal conflict within Israel, but that conflict existed explicitly BECAUSE of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

It's not relevant to this thread, but just as it is in the show, the internal conflict exists independent of the particular context that's causing it to become prominent. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is simply the proximate cause. The underlying cause is a cultural gap that's there with or without the Palestinians.

You should have seen what was going on in Jerusalem before the first intifada started in 1987. The onslaught of Arab terror, as barbaric as it was, at least put something of an end (temporary as it may have been) to our internal strife.

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Raymond Arnold
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Ah. That's interesting. I still think it's fair to say the show is at least roughly allegorical the situation as whole. (Okay, it's actually allegorical of a situation several thousand years ago. I'm not a biblical scholar but it seems to me the current situation in Israel is at least tangentially relevant to the situation then)
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adenam
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I'm really hoping to see Rev. Samuels recieve prophecy.

Does anyone know if the ratings have gone up?

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Papa Moose
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Spoiler to follow, I guess.





Rev. Samuels did receive prophecy. At least, that's how I interpreted the direction of the smoke changing when the direction the flag was blowing didn't (around 29:00 on hulu). Are you saying you're looking for something more precise, like specific language? At least it seemed more supernatural than a car breaking down and someone knowing how to fix it.

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Dogbreath
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
Ah. That's interesting. I still think it's fair to say the show is at least roughly allegorical the situation as whole. (Okay, it's actually allegorical of a situation several thousand years ago. I'm not a biblical scholar but it seems to me the current situation in Israel is at least tangentially relevant to the situation then)

It's the same two people groups, same struggle. Palestinian comes from Palestine which is the Latin form of Philistine - the people whom the biblical kingdom of Israel (under Saul especially) constantly fought with.

I don't think there was a modern day political agenda, though. It seemed to be a pretty fair representation of the biblical account.

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adenam
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quote:
Originally posted by Papa Moose:
Spoiler to follow, I guess.





Rev. Samuels did receive prophecy. At least, that's how I interpreted the direction of the smoke changing when the direction the flag was blowing didn't (around 29:00 on hulu). Are you saying you're looking for something more precise, like specific language? At least it seemed more supernatural than a car breaking down and someone knowing how to fix it.

I totally missed that! I had no idea why he was staring at the flag and smokestack. Now the storyline makes a lot more sense. Thanks for pointing that out.
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adenam
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
Ah. That's interesting. I still think it's fair to say the show is at least roughly allegorical the situation as whole. (Okay, it's actually allegorical of a situation several thousand years ago. I'm not a biblical scholar but it seems to me the current situation in Israel is at least tangentially relevant to the situation then)

It's the same two people groups, same struggle. Palestinian comes from Palestine which is the Latin form of Philistine - the people whom the biblical kingdom of Israel (under Saul especially) constantly fought with.

The Palestinians of today have absolutely no connection to the Philistines that King Saul fought. In those times the land of the Phiistines was a small portion of the southern coast (think Gaza Strip). They are called Palestinians because they were inhabitants of a land called Palestine (basically Israel today), a name given to that land when it was still a Roman province (it was originally called Judea but the Romans changed the name after a Jewish revolt to crush Jewish nationalistic feeling) and the name stuck. Additionally, many of them only came to that area after Jewish and Zionist immigrants began to develop a "desolate wasteland" (ask Mark Twain and Churchil), creating jobs and opportunities.
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Raymond Arnold
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I don't think the writers set out to tell a story that reflected the current Israeli-Palestinian situation, but I also don't think they were ignorant of the parallels that can be drawn. History repeats itself et al.
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Blayne Bradley
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Im watching King's now and woah, the King's son sounds like Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2.
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Blayne Bradley
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Hrrrm, eerily reminds me of the current palistinian-israeli crisis, but with the gath reasonable and the palistinians as we know in real life, are not.
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Lanfear
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Moved to Saturdays.

Basically canceled. http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/04/07/i-hope-you-didnt-get-too-attached-to-kings/

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Blayne Bradley
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WHY MUST ALL GOOD TV DIE!?

Seriously, those guy who make these dumbass decisions need to be dragged onto the street and shot.

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Lisa
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And once again, I agree with Blayne. What a frakkin amazing show, and what idiots they are for not putting it on a weeknight.
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Blayne Bradley
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And the endtimes are nigh.
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Armoth
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They gotta give this show a chance. I'm so upset. It's doing fairly well on Hulu...no? Does that even matter?
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Blayne Bradley
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Probly not, are there commercials?

But anyways I also love the show and want more. But the show is expensive to run apparently, 1 million an episode.

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Raymond Arnold
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Yes, there are commercials on Hulu. It DOES matter, but not a lot.
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Lyrhawn
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Bad ratings.

Really, really expensive show.

Those two things don't add up to renewal.

They should have given the show a chance by starting it off in a decent time slot. I think Kings would have played well on Monday nights.

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Raymond Arnold
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Seems to me there should be a way to check Hulu ratings at any given time. Anyone know if you can do that?
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
They should have given the show a chance by starting it off in a decent time slot. I think Kings would have played well on Monday nights.

I think Wednesday nights, in the old West Wing slot, would have been perfect.
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dabbler
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If you were wondering, it was moved to the summer after the fourth episode. Grrrrr. Hulu says it'll be back in mid June. Here is the update blog post.
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