posted
Disclaimer: There are no doubt those of you who think of Buffy as a silly show for teenaged girls and hormone-driven boys, probably in part due to its run on the WB. This is not the case. Buffy is in fact a very complex show that most normal teenaged girls and hormone-driven boys (who instead watch Dawson’s Creek) find silly and write off immediately.
I’ve been a huge fan of Card’s fiction for many years now, even before I had heard of the TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer . However, I have long been a mildly obsessed fan of Buffy and it surprises me that I never considered the similarities before now. It also surprises me that no one else has made the connection that I could tell… I did a search and the most I could come up with was someone saying that Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy, is like a Speaker for the Dead (relating to The Body, an episode that deals more realistically with death than I have ever seen it portrayed on screen before). Today was just another long and boring day at work and I got to thinking about the similarities seriously.
1) Devoted followers - A somewhat superficial similarity is that both have moderately-sized “cult” followings, which may be common among authors (I wouldn’t know) but is much less common for TV shows, especially one like Buffy. But then, there is no other show like Buffy.
2) Sci-Fi Fantasy - One of the major and least interesting similarities between Card’s fiction and Buffy is that both use Science Fiction/Fantasy to explore deeply human struggles that might not be as adequately expressed in more realistic arenas.
3) Characterization – This is, I think, one of the most important similarities. Both Card’s fiction and Buffy deal extensively and intensely with characterization. They both have the ability to really make you care about the characters. Both of them create heroic characters, but ones that are clearly human. These characters struggle and make mistakes and sacrifice and try to do what they think is right, even if everyone is telling them it is wrong. They also make the characters face the consequences of their actions, which is deeply satisfying for the audience.
4) Validating the Thoughts of Young People – More particularly in Ender’s Game and the Shadow series, Card validates the struggles of those who are young. He does this by giving them real problems, the fate of the world and of nations, and so their problems are truly worth taking note of. Buffy begins with a girl who is only fifteen years old and also has the fate of the world on her shoulders. However, the show validates her problems another way; by making each of the struggles she faces symbolic and thematically related to normal teenage problems. In this way, Buffy shows that those who make it through the hell called adolescence are heroic.
5) Importance of Community – Card clearly shows through his fiction how much importance he places on family and community, especially small community. His fiction relates that value in many small ways. Buffy has her mother and sister, and a family of friends who support her and know who she is. It has been made clear throughout the show that it is these people who tie her to the world, and who enable her to survive much longer than most Slayers. As Buffy put it, “I mean... look, I realize that every Slayer comes with an expiration mark on the package. But I want mine to be a long time from now. Like a Cheeto.”
Overall, the similarities are quite striking. There are several differences, obviously, and I won’t waste time listing them. It’s this kind of thing that makes me wish I was taking another English course, so I’d have an excuse to write a paper about it. Considering my obsessions with both subjects, I’d have plenty of material to go on.
Any thoughts? Has anyone seen Buffy?
Posts: 15 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Yes Hushidh I have seen Buffy. Infact since it is on TV four times a day I've probably seen close to every episode. Until now I saw no connection to the Enderverse, but I see it now. I can't speak for the rest of Card's fiction because I have only read a read a few of his other works, and none of them really relate to Buffy. There is also a tendency in both to bring in characters of comparable abilities to humanities chosen champion, just to show that they fall short because even among superhuman the main figure stands above the rest. Examples: Faith, Spike, Angel, Willow, Kendra, Peter, Valentine, Bean. Both even have another series following one of their "equals" Angel, and the Shadow Series. Both are surrounded by friends and family that drive them on, but spend most of their time tragically alone.
Thak you so much for bringing this up, I can't beleive (especially since I am mildly obsessed with both, or rather all four serieses) that I never saw this before now. Seriously thanks for the food fof thaught!! Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Wellup, not to be a wet blanket, but the similarities you mention are what we in the literary world call "THEMES", and you can find similar ones in many different kinds of literature. I have seen Buffy, and though I thought the movie was entertaining in a cheesy kind of teen-flick way, I am not a fan of the series, sorry. (25 year old adult)
Posts: 89 | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote: Wellup, not to be a wet blanket, but the similarities you mention are what we in the literary world call "THEMES", and you can find similar ones in many different kinds of literature. I have seen Buffy, and though I thought the movie was entertaining in a cheesy kind of teen-flick way, I am not a fan of the series, sorry. (25 year old adult)
You're right, these are themes. However, I am an avid reader, but I have not seen all of these themes done in many places, and certainly not done well. (I actually thought of a few more similarities that I can't remember now.) That's what struck me as significant I think. But perhaps its only interesting to those who love both. The Buffy movie was horrible. Also, age has nothing to do with Buffy obsession, I know a ton of adults who love the show.
quote: I can't speak for the rest of Card's fiction because I have only read a read a few of his other works, and none of them really relate to Buffy.
I've read almost all of his books currently in print and most of his books (though certainly not all) contain most of those themes.
quote: Both are surrounded by friends and family that drive them on, but spend most of their time tragically alone.
Oooh, another one I didn't think of =) Thanks!
Posts: 15 | Registered: May 2002
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Sorry, but any adults who watch that show are either immature, idiots, or both. The characters are vapid, stock and self-preoccupied, the plot lines are poorly conceived and derivative, and any possible innovations are greatly overshadowed by the insipid dialogue. To answer your other comment, those themes can be found in many other books, especially in juvenile fiction. I'm not sure how well-read you are, or what oy like to read, but keep looking and I'm sure you will find some. They aren't that uncommon.
Posts: 89 | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Sorry, but any adults who watch that show are either immature, idiots, or both. The characters are vapid, stock and self-preoccupied, the plot lines are poorly conceived and derivative, and any possible innovations are greatly overshadowed by the insipid dialogue.
Wow, Valentine, you seem pretty vemonous (excuse the pun) on this subject. You are certainly welcome to your freedom of speech, but isn't it possible that those who disagree with you are just as intelligent as you are, and not "immature" or "idiots"?
Here's some food for thought. There are at least 4 books in print that are comprised solely of academic essays on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of sites devoted to the show, many of which discuss or are even devoted to the philosophy and metaphysics of the show. A few universities are actually offering philosophy and film classes based on Buffy. Those who consider the characters in this show to be "vapid" and "stock" are entitled to their own opinions, but have probably not watched the show enough to realize how very wrong they are. I could go in detail for a very long time about how un-stock and not-vapid they are, but obviously you aren't interested in hearing anything about Buffy so I'll restrain myself. The plotlines are secondary to the show and intentionally done tongue-in-cheek for that reason. As for the dialogue, many people actually enjoy that "insipid" dialogue a great deal and even quote it from time to time. I even know of an academic paper written solely on the dialogue, which I personally found very interesting.
quote: To answer your other comment, those themes can be found in many other books, especially in juvenile fiction. I'm not sure how well-read you are, or what oy like to read, but keep looking and I'm sure you will find some. They aren't that uncommon.
Heh, juvenile fiction used to be all I read; I've been a book junkie since I was a wee lass of 4 or so, and I read faster than anyone I know. As a result, I am very much familiar with juvenile fiction as well as adult fiction. Like I said, those themes do appear many other places in literature, just not all at once AND done well. That hardly ever happens For example, The Giver does many of those themes, but I would find it more comparable to 1984 than Buffy or OSC's work because the main theme isn't any of those. Harry Potter also does many of those themes, but then again, Card himself has proclaimed them to not be children's books at all, but books for adults. (Not surprising that I also thoroughly enjoy those!)
I posted these thoughts of mine because I was interested and excited about them and thought there might be at least someone else who was. I'm genuinely sorry that you feel the need to tear that down; you are entitled to your own opinion, but insults are hardly necessary.
Posts: 15 | Registered: May 2002
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Sorry Buffy fans, it was just leftover anger from the other side of the Hatrack forum. I should have just ignored the post since I don't like Buffy. Again, I apologise.
Posts: 89 | Registered: Jul 2003
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I notice that you seem to have not as strong or clear as that of Hushidh from the homecoming series but you seem to have the same power of noticing connections between things aka raveler. I just wanted to compliment you on such a wise display for yourself.
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I have not seen Buffy, but let me comment on
quote: 1) Devoted followers - A somewhat superficial similarity is that both have moderately-sized “cult” followings, which may be common among authors (I wouldn’t know) but is much less common for TV shows, especially one like Buffy. But then, there is no other show like Buffy.
It seems to me that any sci-fi or fantasy show that is succesful enough to stay on the air has a devoted fan base. Star Trek in is various incarnations, Babylon 5, Xena, Buffy... All of these had and still have followers bordering on rabid.
I don't know why this is, but my guess is that most of the viewing audience is automatically put off by anything sci-fi, and in order for it to be succesful, it *has* to have a cult following. What do y'all think?
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I think that with most scifi or fantasy shows The world of the show is very complex, and takes a while to develope, and the plot lines draw on things which happened earlier(some times a few seasons earlier in Buffy) in the shows run, so after a while the shows fan base can't grow much. There is just to much background. They usually try to explain things to newer characters so new veiwers won't be lost, but it still limits them. I've never actually seen Star Trek or Babylon 5, but I'm guessing they have a similar situation. Also since the shows all sort of run together into longer story lines it makes the fans less willing to just skip a few episodes, which might be what makes them so dedicated to the shows.(I don't know any real psyc stuff to back that up, but it makes sense to me) The difference with books is that anyone who wants to can start at the begining of a story or series whenever they want. So their must be another reason for "cult followings" for authors.
Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Borommakot: Heh, thanks =) I wish I were as good at seeing connections as the "real" Hushidh, but I'll make do with the petty few I get.
As for science fiction followings, I would agree that cult followings are much more common for science fiction shows than any other, but there are plenty of science fiction shows without actual cult followings like those of Xena and Buffy and the Trekkies that do, indeed, survive for a while. There's something there that people care about and hold on to, and while I am not incredibly familiar with Xena or Star Trek so it may be different for those shows, for Buffy it's more about the realistic and interesting way the characters were created and events handled than anything about the world that it took place in. The world was a tool, but the characters and events were the real treasures.
Posts: 15 | Registered: May 2002
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but I see it now. ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
I even know of an academic paper written solely on the dialogue, which I personally found very interesting. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
